11 minutes ago, frantick said:

Missing link from above. Last two columns page 13. Actually indicates vaccinated more harmful to the unvaccinated. 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023849/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_40.pdf

That is absolutly not what it indicates. My god, you pick one column in a 27 pages document to make your point when everything else tells the opposite, and it says on the page be careful what you make of the numbers here because it does not say what you think.

 

something more about he UK

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/english-school-return-spurred-covid-children-cases-fell-adults-study-2021-10-13/

32 minutes ago, thaichina said:

That is absolutly not what it indicates. My god, you pick one column in a 27 pages document to make your point when everything else tells the opposite, and it says on the page be careful what you make of the numbers here because it does not say what you think.

 

something more about he UK

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/english-school-return-spurred-covid-children-cases-fell-adults-study-2021-10-13/

You did not disprove my point, so it stands as far as I'm concerned.

3 hours ago, frantick said:

Do you even read what you post? 

Quote from the article: 

"The study also found that the protection the vaccines offer against transmission wanes over time.

Three months after having the AstraZeneca vaccine, those who had breakthrough infections were just as likely to spread the Delta variant as the unvaccinated."

 

So, unless you're getting jabs every three months, well, think for yourself if you can. 

 

But, in your defense, the study isn't peer-reviewed like all of you always demand of us freedom fighters, so it's fake news for now. 

 

Also new data coming out of the UK showing higher case counts per 100,000 vaccinated vs 100,000 unvaccinated. I don't have a link ATM. I have no argument about severity, as still higher in unvaccinated. But infection trending in support of vaccine mandates being unnecessary. 

Delusional, "freedom fighters", pathetic adolescent fantasy of a grown man afraid of getting a shot.

Here is the pertinent quote responding to the claim that vaccines do not slow or stop transmission of the virus.

 

"The findings showed that both vaccines reduced transmission, but that the Pfizer vaccine was the most effective in doing so. The contacts of those who were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine were 65 percent less likely to test positive for COVID-19 compared with the contacts of those who were unvaccinated. The contacts of those fully vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine, meanwhile, were 36 percent less likely to test positive when compared with the contacts of those who were unvaccinated."

 

Sorry to cause coitus interruptus, as I am sure you and Rosy Palm were having a celebratory onanist episode,

but your brilliant observation is with respect to "those who had breakthrough infections".

 

And breakthrough infections are rare.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/risk-breakthrough-infections-remains-rare-3-studies-find-rcna1854

 "researchers looked at data collected on more than 1 million people from December 2020 through July 2021, a period that spanned both the alpha and delta variant waves in the U.K. Participants received two doses of either the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna or AstraZeneca vaccine.

Overall, less than 0.2 percent of the participants reported a breakthrough infection"

 

Do you even read the quotes you insert?

You apparently read until triggered by a key word or familiar phrase and then misinterpret anything that requires the slightest bit of comprehension. 

Don't get that sticky stuff on your hands all over your "freedom fighter" leotard.

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Delusional, "freedom fighters", pathetic adolescent fantasy of a grown man afraid of getting a shot.

Here is the pertinent quote responding to the claim that vaccines do not slow or stop transmission of the virus.

 

"The findings showed that both vaccines reduced transmission, but that the Pfizer vaccine was the most effective in doing so. The contacts of those who were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine were 65 percent less likely to test positive for COVID-19 compared with the contacts of those who were unvaccinated. The contacts of those fully vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine, meanwhile, were 36 percent less likely to test positive when compared with the contacts of those who were unvaccinated."

 

Sorry to cause coitus interruptus, as I am sure you and Rosy Palm were having a celebratory onanist episode,

but your brilliant observation is with respect to "those who had breakthrough infections".

 

And breakthrough infections are rare.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/risk-breakthrough-infections-remains-rare-3-studies-find-rcna1854

 "researchers looked at data collected on more than 1 million people from December 2020 through July 2021, a period that spanned both the alpha and delta variant waves in the U.K. Participants received two doses of either the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna or AstraZeneca vaccine.

Overall, less than 0.2 percent of the participants reported a breakthrough infection"

 

Do you even read the quotes you insert?

You apparently read until triggered by a key word or familiar phrase and then misinterpret anything that requires the slightest bit of comprehension. 

Don't get that sticky stuff on your hands all over your "freedom fighter" leotard.

You don't prove your case by petty insults.

7 hours ago, frantick said:

Do you even read what you post? 

Quote from the article: 

"The study also found that the protection the vaccines offer against transmission wanes over time.

Three months after having the AstraZeneca vaccine, those who had breakthrough infections were just as likely to spread the Delta variant as the unvaccinated."

 

So, unless you're getting jabs every three months, well, think for yourself if you can. 

 

But, in your defense, the study isn't peer-reviewed like all of you always demand of us freedom fighters, so it's fake news for now. 

 

Also new data coming out of the UK showing higher case counts per 100,000 vaccinated vs 100,000 unvaccinated. I don't have a link ATM. I have no argument about severity, as still higher in unvaccinated. But infection trending in support of vaccine mandates being unnecessary. 

And it seems you missed this bit:

 

“Three months after having the AstraZeneca vaccine, those who had breakthrough infections were just as likely to spread the Delta variant as the unvaccinated."

 

7 hours ago, frantick said:

 

Three months after having the AstraZeneca vaccine, those who had breakthrough infections were just as likely to spread the Delta variant as the unvaccinated.

Absolutely correct. The rare vaccinated individuals who have breakthrough infections are just as likely to infect someone as an unvaccinated person.

 

The key fact you don’t understand is that breakthrough infections are rare. Conversely, infections among the unvaccinated are common.

 

You seem to be an anti-vaxx type because you are being fed misinformation by your internet friends.

Breakthrough cases are infectious, but for less time:

 

given the data available so far, most infectious disease specialist agree it is most certainly less than unvaccinated people who get COVID-19.

 

Numerous studies have found that vaccinated people who test positive generally clear the virus out much faster than unvaccinated people who are infected, suggesting that those with breakthrough cases are most likely contagious for a shorter period of time.

 

https://news.yahoo.com/breakthrough-covid-infections-long-vaccinated-094519817.html

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't prove your case by petty insults.

 A person says to me "Do you even read what you post?" that is an insult and then posts a quote he doesn't even understand that is also an insult.

Insult to insult.

In addition to proving my case.

7 hours ago, frantick said:

Do you even read what you post? 

Quote from the article: 

"The study also found that the protection the vaccines offer against transmission wanes over time.

Three months after having the AstraZeneca vaccine, those who had breakthrough infections were just as likely to spread the Delta variant as the unvaccinated."

 

So, unless you're getting jabs every three months, well, think for yourself if you can. 

 

But, in your defense, the study isn't peer-reviewed like all of you always demand of us freedom fighters, so it's fake news for now. 

 

Also new data coming out of the UK showing higher case counts per 100,000 vaccinated vs 100,000 unvaccinated. I don't have a link ATM. I have no argument about severity, as still higher in unvaccinated. But infection trending in support of vaccine mandates being unnecessary. 

Whenever an argument depends on data from just one country, that’s an indication that the argument is weak.

 

if you look at countries around the world, vaccination reduces new infections. Geez, Dubai, Chile, Japan and other highly vaccinated countries have less than 1,000 new infections now. You can keep pointing out the outliers, and your argument will continue to be weak.

 

but, just to confuse you, here is breakthrough infection data from Minnesota:

 

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbt.html

7 hours ago, frantick said:

Missing link from above. Last two columns page 13. Actually indicates vaccinated more harmful to the unvaccinated. 

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023849/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_40.pdf

First of all thank you for linking to a report from a reliable source.

 

That said, you’ve misunderstood the data in the report and seem to have completely missed a whole paragraph that specifically addresses the effectiveness of the vaccine against transmission, refer page 6 of the report you linked.

 

Anyone who cares to read what’s written within the chapter (helpfully) entitled ‘Effectiveness Against Transmission’ will find this very clear statement:

 

“An analysis from the ONS Community Infection Survey found that contacts of vaccinated index cases had around 65-80% reduced odds of testing positive with the Alpha variant and 35-65% reduced odds of testing positive with the Delta variant compare to contacts of unvaccinated index cases (18).“

 

You have misunderstood the data within the report, and the report itself provides evidence that the conclusions you have drawn are incorrect.

 

Again, thank you for posting a link to a credible report.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

And it's just as possible they got it from vaccinated adults. Please stop the scare mongering. Vaxx your kids if you like.

In Israel, one of the big reasons for the recent increase in cases was unvaccinated kids. Please. Research this. It's not scare mongering. Jeez.

11 hours ago, Scott said:

There has been a fair amount of either unsubstantiated or misleading information posted.  Leeway has been given because Covid is still relatively new and vaccines are certainly new, but a few points need to be clarified. 

 

First, vaccines do prevent infection from Covid.  Breakthrough cases are still the exception.  If you do get a breakthrough infection, you will almost always fare better than an unvaccinated person.  You will be infectious.  

 

Second, the mRNA vaccines are not experimental.  They are fully approved for certain groups.   mRNA technology has been around since the 90s and in the early 2000s it was used in human trials for a number of vaccines.  From those trials there is absolutely no reason to believe there is any long-term effect.   For those who are hesitant to take a new vaccine, there are traditional ones available.

At this juncture, the odds of defeating Covid look bleak, however, historically we have been fairly successful at eradicating or severely curtailing diseases as long as there isn't a vector species that is capable of harboring and reintroducing the virus.  Much of the attempt to find the origins of the disease is to answer this question.  The virus is 94 or 96 similar to what is known in bats, but is it the same?  Diseases like smallpox and polio exist only in people.  If Covid is the same then it is possible to eliminate it.  

Any group that isn't vaccinated or isolated from the general population is a risk for continuing the spread.  This includes children.

You need to put this at the top of every covid thread. Too many don't understand this. Or don't want to.

8 hours ago, frantick said:

You did not disprove my point, so it stands as far as I'm concerned.

And there's the problem. You believe what you want to believe. Not what's the truth. I'd suggest a new source for your news. Please.

A misleadingly false troll post has been removed also a reply

13 hours ago, Scott said:

There has been a fair amount of either unsubstantiated or misleading information posted.  Leeway has been given because Covid is still relatively new and vaccines are certainly new, but a few points need to be clarified. 

 

First, vaccines do prevent infection from Covid.  Breakthrough cases are still the exception.  If you do get a breakthrough infection, you will almost always fare better than an unvaccinated person.  You will be infectious.  

 

Second, the mRNA vaccines are not experimental.  They are fully approved for certain groups.   mRNA technology has been around since the 90s and in the early 2000s it was used in human trials for a number of vaccines.  From those trials there is absolutely no reason to believe there is any long-term effect.   For those who are hesitant to take a new vaccine, there are traditional ones available.

At this juncture, the odds of defeating Covid look bleak, however, historically we have been fairly successful at eradicating or severely curtailing diseases as long as there isn't a vector species that is capable of harboring and reintroducing the virus.  Much of the attempt to find the origins of the disease is to answer this question.  The virus is 94 or 96 similar to what is known in bats, but is it the same?  Diseases like smallpox and polio exist only in people.  If Covid is the same then it is possible to eliminate it.  

Any group that isn't vaccinated or isolated from the general population is a risk for continuing the spread.  This includes children.

These facts are well understood by most rational posters here and supported by adequate scientific evidence. Yet, many conspiracy nutters and politically motivated posters continue to push lies over and over again, much to the chagrin of everybody else. It behooves many of us to respond and keep responding so that the lies don't become dominant or become the "truth" because they are repeated so many times. This wastes a lot of time and causes a great deal of angst in those of us who want to protect our loved ones and to see high rates of vaccine uptake so that life can return to a semblance of normality and travel to Thailand can become safer.

 

Can we now start to see the miscreants sanctioned and the lies removed?

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

These facts are well understood by most rational posters here and supported by adequate scientific evidence. Yet, many conspiracy nutters and politically motivated posters continue to push lies over and over again, much to the chagrin of everybody else. It behooves many of us to respond and keep responding so that the lies don't become dominant or become the "truth" because they are repeated so many times. This wastes a lot of time and causes a great deal of angst in those of us who want to protect our loved ones and to see high rates of vaccine uptake so that life can return to a semblance of normality and travel to Thailand can become safer.

 

Can we now start to see the miscreants sanctioned and the lies removed?

The mods do a pretty good job removing those who consistently post fake or misleading comments and links. Congrats to them for a great job.

 

If you see something that is inappropriate, just report it. Don't reply to it.

Troll Red Zone Heaven Thread Here.

Reason has definitively carried the day. 

Surely Time to Close Topic as “Troll Topic”.

 

2 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Troll Red Zone Heaven Thread Here.

Reason has definitively carried the day. 

Surely Time to Close Topic as “Troll Topic”.

 

I agree. Topics about coronavirus and vaccines are central to international travel and affect us all. This topic, however was originally created only to spread misinformation and the title invites the anti vaxers to do just that..

A misleading troll post and replies have been removed

17 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Nobody is vaccinating kids until clinical trials are complete. 

Right now, school kids from 10 up (actually the cut off age is 9 and 6 months) are getting Sinopharm.

 

Yet...just a few weeks ago it still wasn't approved by FDA due to lack of data.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40006431

19 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Anyone hesitaant or against vax should read below article.

 

I keep seeing patients who are still too afraid of getting the COVID-19 vaccine: Doctor

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/keep-seeing-patients-still-too-090338558.html

Hesitant is a stupid wishy-washy word....Some people just don't want the vax at all...They are not hesitant....They just don't bloody want it...

9 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Delusional, "freedom fighters", pathetic adolescent fantasy of a grown man afraid of getting a shot.

Here is the pertinent quote responding to the claim that vaccines do not slow or stop transmission of the virus.

 

"The findings showed that both vaccines reduced transmission, but that the Pfizer vaccine was the most effective in doing so. The contacts of those who were fully vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine were 65 percent less likely to test positive for COVID-19 compared with the contacts of those who were unvaccinated. The contacts of those fully vaccinated with the AstraZeneca vaccine, meanwhile, were 36 percent less likely to test positive when compared with the contacts of those who were unvaccinated."

 

Sorry to cause coitus interruptus, as I am sure you and Rosy Palm were having a celebratory onanist episode,

but your brilliant observation is with respect to "those who had breakthrough infections".

 

And breakthrough infections are rare.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/risk-breakthrough-infections-remains-rare-3-studies-find-rcna1854

 "researchers looked at data collected on more than 1 million people from December 2020 through July 2021, a period that spanned both the alpha and delta variant waves in the U.K. Participants received two doses of either the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna or AstraZeneca vaccine.

Overall, less than 0.2 percent of the participants reported a breakthrough infection"

 

Do you even read the quotes you insert?

You apparently read until triggered by a key word or familiar phrase and then misinterpret anything that requires the slightest bit of comprehension. 

Don't get that sticky stuff on your hands all over your "freedom fighter" leotard.

For 3 months... 

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

Right now, school kids from 10 up (actually the cut off age is 9 and 6 months) are getting Sinopharm.

 

Yet...just a few weeks ago it still wasn't approved by FDA due to lack of data.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40006431

This is Thailand. 

14 minutes ago, frantick said:

For 3 months... 

Again, you love to fool people by omitting the performance of all vaccines. 

4 hours ago, user1047 said:

People believe what they want to believe on both sides. That's the problem. Most people now have mindsets. It all depends on your source of news. Which one is correct? Who knows....

You are suggesting that objective reality doesn't exist. 

3 hours ago, redwood1 said:

Hesitant is a stupid wishy-washy word....Some people just don't want the vax at all...They are not hesitant....They just don't bloody want it...

Not a good reason. Very selfish.

A post with a link to a questionable source and the replies have been removed.

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

This is Thailand. 

<deleted>.

On 10/14/2021 at 10:58 AM, 2009 said:

It was another member who said polio was a savage killer of children. I was quoting his words.

 

And then I was pointing out how covid barely affects children, comparatively to polio.

 

I mean, am I wrong here? Or is covid killing more children than polio? Which is worse for children?

If you are talking about polio now, it has been eradicated almost everywhere, so the answer is Covid killing more children.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034a1.htm

5 hours ago, 2009 said:

Right now, school kids from 10 up (actually the cut off age is 9 and 6 months) are getting Sinopharm.

 

Yet...just a few weeks ago it still wasn't approved by FDA due to lack of data.

 

https://www.nationthailand.com/in-focus/40006431

So. Pfizer is aproved for 12 years and up in the US but in a few weeks ( of more testing ) it will be submited for for vaccinating 5 to  11 years old. As more information , testing and results on people come in recomendations on dosage , ages, after effects change.