Expat on Samui says he was threatened with deportation by hospital over Covid bill

[robblok]

For those that make remarks about his passport being held. It seems that is the only reason he paid. Because he needed his visa extended and did not want trouble.

So it seems he could pay but did not want to pay. So who can blame a hospital to hold a passport then. When people are only willing to pay if there are serious consequences. I read often about  of people trying to run away from bill from hospitals or banks.

 

So is it really that bad that they try to counter this even if its not legal. Obviously the legal consequences dont scare people.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

How do you know the field hospitals are free for foreigners? Can you choose to stay in a field hospital?

I asked these questions before and never got a definitive answer.

Even if they are not free they will be a lot cheaper. I like you cannot say it with 100% certainty but why would it not be possible. Most foreigners would not want it but i doubt its not possible.

[rbkk]

12 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Many people took the Roojai or Dhipaya covid insurance, which covers asymptomatic cases and it costs only 800 baht for an year. The coverage is low for ICU treatment (100k max), but pretty adequate for hospitels.

So I am covered for 'Hospitels.' 

[Dart12]

So wait, he got the black plague, 

Got no treatment,

And survived?

 

What are the odds???

 

Miracle.

 

Praise Buddha.

 

This system is just a money grab putting every person in a non treating , camp.

 

10,365,000,000 baht collected this year for mandatory payment regardless if you just got sniffles for a day.

 

Nice payday.

 

Of course locking them all up makes then allows for headlines like hospitals full making it sound dire

 

Just a different version of the West's money grabs since Thailand missed that first train

[gearbox]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

Even if they are not free they will be a lot cheaper. I like you cannot say it with 100% certainty but why would it not be possible. Most foreigners would not want it but i doubt its not possible.

The rules are not clear at all what is possible and what is not. I saw this link from Luma:

 

https://www.lumahealth.com/guides/thailand/covid-19-guide/

 

From what I read it may not be possible to have home quarantine or a field hospital if you are above 60 or have underlying health conditions. The web page is in English and doesn't even mention field hospitals, maybe they don't expect foreigner to choose to stay there.

Also I think once a patient is positive a couple of PCR tests are required,  the government hospital in Samui charges 3500 baht for a single test.

 

What is a Hospitel?

A Hospitel is the combination of hospital and hotel. This type of facility has been created to prevent the overcrowding of hospital beds during the outbreak. Hospitels are designed for people infected with Covid-19 who do not have serious symptoms and have low risk to develop complications of Covid–19 infection. A Hospitel is always coupled with a partnered hospital to provide medical treatment.

Please note Hospitels differ from ASQ hotels (Alternative State Quarantine) that do not provide medical care.

To check into a Hospitel, you need to be prescribed your isolation at the Hospitel by a doctor.

Source: OIC’s definition of Hospitel.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The rules are not clear at all what is possible and what is not. I saw this link from Luma:

 

https://www.lumahealth.com/guides/thailand/covid-19-guide/

 

From what I read it may not be possible to have home quarantine or a field hospital if you are above 60 or have underlying health conditions. The web page is in English and doesn't even mention field hospitals, maybe they don't expect foreigner to choose to stay there.

Also I think once a patient is positive a couple of PCR tests are required,  the government hospital in Samui charges 3500 baht for a single test.

 

What is a Hospitel?

A Hospitel is the combination of hospital and hotel. This type of facility has been created to prevent the overcrowding of hospital beds during the outbreak. Hospitels are designed for people infected with Covid-19 who do not have serious symptoms and have low risk to develop complications of Covid–19 infection. A Hospitel is always coupled with a partnered hospital to provide medical treatment.

Please note Hospitels differ from ASQ hotels (Alternative State Quarantine) that do not provide medical care.

To check into a Hospitel, you need to be prescribed your isolation at the Hospitel by a doctor.

Source: OIC’s definition of Hospitel.

This guy was certainly not above 60 so in this case i would not be so sure it would not have been possible.

 

But everyone in Thailand had a chance to buy a covid insurance those who did not took their chances and should live with the consequences. Its not as if covid suddenly appeared and that there were no insurers. It did get a bit more expensive when the second wave started.

[Meat Pie 47]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Another good reason never to take a Covid test

Another good reason not to live in Thailand 

[Richard Hall]

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

Apparently this is not a hotel bill, it is a hospital bill for covid treatment. Logically the policies covering asymptomatic cases would cover it.

Original wording of Thai Insurance Company (Luma Thailand Pass) covering Covid and other hospital bills up to THB 3,500,000:

 

"The expenses of Quarantined with no symptoms or treatment is not covered under the policy unless the insured is tested positive to COVID-19 and that government regulation requires hospitalization for monitoring"

Edited September 22, 2021 by Richard Hall

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Maybe, but some people just refuse to pay their bills. I feel its justified. 

 

Hospitals have a lot of problem collecting money from expats. I can understand they want some security. Maybe the guy should have deposited some money instead of his passport. 

 

Edit i read he paid 10.000 deposit and later he did pay the other 50k.

 

So he could pay and only the fact that they had his passport made him pay.

So not a case of not being able to pay but not willing to pay.

Because it was supposed to be for free I think.

 

And anyway, he was being kept there against his will.

 

He could have stayed at a field hospital would be his argument I guess.

 

The lesson here I think is not to get tested at an expensive hospital.

 

Actually, I just cancelled a dental appointment at a private hospital because they want to do a covid test beforehand. I'll have a rethink.  I don't want to be faced with forced quarantine at 50k for the fortnight.  That's sheer extortion anyway.

Edited September 22, 2021 by mommysboy

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Because it was supposed to be for free I think.

 

And anyway, he was being kept there against his will.

 

He could have stayed at a field hospital would be his argument I guess.

 

The lesson here I think is not to get tested at an expensive hospital.

I would say lesson is get covid insurance.  Lesson 2 check if you have to pay or not.

 

So the guy just did not want to pay because he felt he was cheated. So without the threats and without the withholding of passport he would not have paid.  So IMHO justified but not legal. 

[robblok]

28 minutes ago, Richard Hall said:

Original wording of Thai Insurance Company (Luma Thailand Pass) covering Covid and other hospital bills up to THB 3,500,000:

 

"The expenses of Quarantined with no symptoms or treatment is not covered under the policy unless the insured is tested positive to COVID-19 and that government regulation requires hospitalization for monitoring"

Seems that this means that asymptomatic will be paid out if the goverment wants to put you in quarantine. That is what happened with this guy. His problem is that he did not buy insurance.

[chuang]

Free only the air is free..

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I would say lesson is get covid insurance.  Lesson 2 check if you have to pay or not.

 

So the guy just did not want to pay because he felt he was cheated. So without the threats and without the withholding of passport he would not have paid.  So IMHO justified but not legal. 

I figure that you shouldn't have to pay to be effectively put in prison for 2 weeks.  He said he couldn't pay and didn't want to stay there. It's mad.

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I doubt whether insurance would cover a hotel stay in quarantine 

Isolation following a positive test, be it in a hospital, field hospital or hospitel is covered by Covid insurance. What they won't cover is isolation at home.

 

I specifically asked about this when I bought my own policy earlier this year, however I do not know whether a standard health policy would provide the same cover.

 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I figure that you shouldn't have to pay to be effectively put in prison for 2 weeks.  He said he couldn't pay and didn't want to stay there. It's mad.

Mad or not those are the rules that everyone follows. There are the rules the hospital MUST follow. If he wants to complain he should go to the government. They made the rules. Can't blame the hospital and hotel to want to bet paid for what they did.

 

He is barking up the wrong tree and with a covid insurance he would not have had any trouble. Its typical foreigner thinking I dont need an insurance and moan when they need it. 

[khunPer]

Living as a foreigner in Thailand you are on your own, if you cannot accept - or afford - that, you should not stay here.

 

It's sad, really sad, when people gets into financial troubles over business, and sad if they cannot afford the little less than 500 baht a month to continue the voluntary Social Security-fee, or afford an insurance, or have some savings for emergency matters, but that's how the rules are, and we know it advance before we come. We aliens are on our own, and we must face it or leave.

 

But it's correct that some foreigners might consider to keep low profile if they are Covid-positive, but asymptomatic or hardly sick, due to the fact that they are financially on their own to cover the expenses. Perhaps the government should have considered that situation - or parhaps they already have - to avoid situations like this, and the negative comments, which might result in others think twice about investing their savings in opening a business in Thailand; or just come to live here.

 

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Mad or not those are the rules that everyone follows. There are the rules the hospital MUST follow. If he wants to complain he should go to the government. They made the rules. Can't blame the hospital and hotel to want to bet paid for what they did.

 

He is barking up the wrong tree and with a covid insurance he would not have had any trouble. Its typical foreigner thinking I dont need an insurance and moan when they need it. 

I think he was facing financial hardship following the collapse of his business. Field hospital was a perfectly acceptable option.  I imagine he found himself trapped at that hospital and under law he couldn't be moved anywhere else.

 

Yes his argument is primarily with the government and imo he was a bit weak to cave in to strong arm tactics, as he will now never see that money again.

 

Insurance is only an option if you can afford it.  It's the first thing that has to go when you're fighting to keep food on the table. Your life may be relatively sweet, but not so for others perhaps.

 

As to planning, sure it's a good idea if you can afford it, but I refer to boxing wisdom from Mike Tyson : 'Sure, I had a plan but then I got punched in the face.' It's the things you don't see coming he was trying to say I reckon.

Edited September 22, 2021 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

2 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Living as a foreigner in Thailand you are on your own, if you cannot accept - or afford - that, you should not stay here.

 

It's sad, really sad, when people gets into financial troubles over business, and sad if they cannot afford the little less than 500 baht a month to continue the voluntary Social Security-fee, or afford an insurance, or have some savings for emergency matters, but that's how the rules are, and we know it advance before we come. We aliens are on our own, and we must face it or leave.

 

But it's correct that some foreigners might consider to keep low profile if they are Covid-positive, but asymptomatic or hardly sick, due to the fact that they are financially on their own to cover the expenses. Perhaps the government should have considered that situation - or parhaps they already have - to avoid situations like this, and the negative comments, which might result in others think twice about investing their savings in opening a business in Thailand; or just come to live here.

 

It was said that all covid treatment would be free for foreigners too.  He seems to the victim of a rule that mandated him to stay at that hospital- presumably where the test took place.  I'm sure a field hospital could have taken him.  The thing is you can protect yourself up to a point, but Thailand is full of absurdity.  But I agree in the main.

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

I think he was facing financial hardship following the collapse of his business. Field hospital was a perfectly acceptable option.  I imagine he found himself trapped at that hospital and under law he couldn't be moved anywhere else.

 

Yes his argument is primarily with the government and imo he was a bit weak to cave in to strong arm tactics, as he will now never see that money again.

 

Insurance is only an option if you can afford it.  It's the first thing that has to go when you're fighting to keep food on the table. Your life may be relatively sweet, but not so for others perhaps.

My life has not always been sweet, but those covid insurances were cheap like around 1000 baht. Plus now all of a sudden he does have the 50k. So there were reserves otherwise he could not have paid. Meaning he could have paid for insurance too. 

 

I think he was not weak and did the right thing. He could always start a case with the goverment and that did not invalidate the claim the hospital and hotel had on him. You know legally the hospital and hotel were right. They followed the rules. So sure he might never see this money again. Because he has to sue the goverment. But not paying the hospital is not an option as they were in their legal right.

 

I hope you understand that as legally he cannot bring a case to the hospital or hotel as they were following goverment rules his claim should be with the government. 

 

I just don't really believe the guys story of having no money, the moment it got serious he all of a sudden had the money. He could have loaned it from someone and also him going to a lawyer is also not something people without money do. I just think the guy is just <deleted> off that he had to pay and feigns that he had no money. That is how i interpret it. If otherwise then sorry but i still feel that he is not without blame and he would have to pay the hospital and hotel as the claim is with the government.

[Jonathan Swift]

3 hours ago, Dmaxdan said:

What a stupid situation.

Being victimized like this is not exactly going to encourage foreigners to come forward and be tested, even if they believe they have Covid symptoms.

 

 

I think most of the commenters here are professional victims/complainers. 

[robblok]

To be honest the fact that he let social security lapse is stupid, short on money or not. I think most of us would kill to be in the social security system. It might not cover a lot but for 500 something baht a month its the cheapest thing that covers the most for that price. I certainly would have loved to have that as a backup.

 

 

[thaitom]

2 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

getting deported and not paying might have been a better option

deportation costs are on you, it is not free, you get to live in a Imm. detention center until you come up with the airfare.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, kevin612 said:

This upsets me because they are taking advantage of this individual and Thailand really mean to foreigners.

The hospital isn't taking advantage of him, they are following the law. Have a problem with it take it up with the government.

 

BTW, if he can't pay the quarantine, how could he pay if he actually got sick?

[thaibeachlovers]

45 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Perhaps the government should have considered that situation - or parhaps they already have - to avoid situations like this, and the negative comments, which might result in others think twice about investing their savings in opening a business in Thailand; or just come to live here.

It'll be old news tomorrow and forgotten in a week.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Meat Pie 47 said:

Another good reason not to live in Thailand 

Nobody is forcing anyone to do so, and the powers that be couldn't care less if they didn't IMO.

Edited September 22, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

 

It is actually against international law and in violation of several treaties, for a private entity or business to confiscate one's passport.....

 

Mighty fine negotiating point.

 

 

 

.

Tell that to the Saudis. My passport was taken whenever I arrived in the kingdom.

[timendres]

3 hours ago, hioctane said:

All the more reason you should have travel insurance especially in this environment. Self insuring simply isn’t an option anymore.

60,000 baht? Really? That is most peoples' deductible.

[mommysboy]

 

Where can one get covid insurance?  It does sound like the easiest solution. 

 

I must admit that until this morning I didn't realize that a hospital had the right to keep you like that for covid.

 

He played his hand badly.  I mean, I've heard of not being able to leave the country because you can't pay the bill, but not the other way round. Also, They'd have settled for a 1000 baht a month I'm sure, and it could have been negotiated down.

 

However, I am of the impression that many posters on this board are somewhat harsh in their judgement.  Money certainly isn't easy to come by at this moment in time and we do know his business has collapsed.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by mommysboy

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Because it was supposed to be for free I think.

 

And anyway, he was being kept there against his will.

 

He could have stayed at a field hospital would be his argument I guess.

 

The lesson here I think is not to get tested at an expensive hospital.

 

Actually, I just cancelled a dental appointment at a private hospital because they want to do a covid test beforehand. I'll have a rethink.  I don't want to be faced with forced quarantine at 50k for the fortnight.  That's sheer extortion anyway.

From what I see in the article he was tested in the cheapest hospital (government) in Samui. I did a PCR test there 2 months ago and it was way cheaper than the private hospitals.

 

60k in hospitel looks a bit on the expensive side, then again the foreigners usually pay more.  The PCR tests for foreigners are 3.5k baht, for Thais are at least 1k less...2 thousand something.

[gearbox]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

 

Where can one get covid insurance?  It does sound like the easiest solution. 

 

I must admit that until this morning I didn't realize that a hospital had the right to keep you like that for covid.

 

He played his hand badly.  I mean, I've heard of not being able to leave the country because you can't pay the bill, but not the other way round. Also, They'd have settled for a 1000 baht a month I'm sure, and it could have been negotiated down.

 

However, I am of the impression that many posters on this board are somewhat harsh in their judgement.  Money certainly isn't easy to come by at this moment in time and we do know his business has collapsed.  

Do you have "normal" medical insurance? Many of them cover covid, check if they cover asymptomatic cases.

If not, Roojai/Dhipaya cover is OK and cheap for mild/asymptomatic cases. If you need ICU they may cover only part of the bill, as it is usually max 100k coverage.

 

I had this issue early April when the cases started rising, my CoE AXA insurance has expired and was not possible to renew. The forum had very helpful information in regards to Roojai/Dhipaya insurance, and I got one for 850 baht. This type of insurance is not sufficient for severe cases requiring ICU,  so I booked a flight to Europe, I'm there now fully vaccinated with Pfizer, that would reduce my chances to get into ICU significantly.