THE WEEK THAT WAS A Little House on the Thai Prairie - is it really too much to ask?

[rooster59]

 

The hottest of “man farangs” (that’s potato, not foreign guy) reared its perennially ugly head once again this week as the PM said it was not treasonous to sell the land of his country to foreigners. 

 

The issue has once again hit center stage as Prayut Chan-ocha desperately tries to kick-start his shattered economy to attract a million wealthy foreigners spending a trillion baht over the next five years.

 

Prayut has been challenged by real estate bods like Sophon Pornchokchai of AREA who equated “khai thee din” (selling land) with “khai chart” - selling out the country. There was also a groundswell of netizens who feared Thailand becoming the next province of China and middle income Thais being priced out of the market.

 

Sophon actually agreed with the government as no one has been suggesting that anything more than a 10 million baht property investment would suffice before a foreigner had his name on a chanote. He also called for purchases to be limited to places like Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket (where there is an almighty glut and where his firm doubtless have their main interests). Plus limiting voting rights to Thais if foreign condo ownership exceeded 50%.

 

It’s clear that a wholesale law change could open the floodgates to China and in my assessment it’s not going to happen. 

 

Apart from houses, Thais are keen to protect condominium projects becoming de facto hotels once China allows its citizens to travel again.

 

They’ve already had a taste of what happens when the leash or the lease is extended! Condos getting flooded with AirBnB tourists and so-called zero dollar tours taking over. 

 

But I am moved to ask, more on behalf of expats and retirees than myself, what is so wrong with allowing long term resident foreigners with wives, families and children to own a small plot (maybe less than one rai) on which to build a dwelling. 

 

My history of buying property in Thailand is far less about investment and more about marital expedience.

 

Back in 1999 I’d saved some money from teaching and asked my father for an advance on inheritance and decided to buy my first wife a house. I had no designs on owning it and considered it a gift to her for giving me two beautiful children. 

 

In this way I conveniently circumvented the galling feeling of being treated like a complete foreigner in the country I love and have contributed to.

 

I extracted as much amusement from the situation as possible. I took my kids to the ATM for snaps (selfies hadn’t been invented yet) showing my huge bank balance. Funds that five minutes later showed zero as I signed a paper at the Pathum Thani land office stating that I had nothing whatsoever to do with buying the house. 

 

It cost me several million and now is worth a few million less. It was under ten feet of water during the 2011 floods which didn’t help!

 

The only other house I “bought” was a residence in Loei designed and built by my now deceased brother-in- law. This was a gift to my second wife and her parents, very pleasant people who were living in a tumbledown shack and now have a better situation in their dotage.

 

Rooster was more than happy to be able to legally own condos that I have bought, flipped, rented and lived in over many years. It helped to be a permanent resident (gained in 2003) to get the odd mortgage. 

 

Of course, buying a condo is fine for expats and retirees providing they have the cash. But surely many in the countryside would like to own a bit of land and a house. I don’t expect everyone to be prepared to put all their assets in the name of their spouse - let’s face it things can go “mango shaped” in the Land of Smiles. 

 

But owning a Little House on the Thai Prairie - even a dwelling in a town or city, would go some way to making people feel more welcome and would obviously help with the economy. 

 

It was stated by the British Embassy this week that there are 45,000 Brits in Thailand. I was surprised there was enough lager to cope. 

 

But I wonder if the government had thought of polling them - or any other nationality - to see what their intentions would be if the land law changed. They might be surprised.

 

Of course this would require “intelligence and forward planning”. Rooster, in an ASEAN NOW week in which I left my sarky stamp on the translation of Thai news, managed to slip in such a reference when Prayut, tourism minister Pipat and TAT chief Yutthasak all visited the Regent in Cha-Am. 

 

The PM managed to say almost nothing coherent though to be fair to him it was nearly teatime and his stomach was probably rumbling like an army tank going down Ratchadamnoen. 

 

Ah….happy days.

 

Though he did say that in future Thailand would not have a low and high tourism season. It was just going to be one huge visitor-a-thon especially when the BIB (Boys in Beijing) reopen. 

 

Sleepy Cha-Am seems to be the flavor of the month at the moment. It could yet reopen quicker than Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai who will have to wait till November as the vaccine rollout has been what DPM Prawit might say is “chronologically challenged”.

 

A mini-van with police insignia also dropped into Cha-Am’s quaint beach and out piled a bunch of “tourists” armed with guitars sporting short-back-and-sandpaper haircuts.

 

After netizens went ape, Plod went to enormous lengths to explain that the cops and their families were not on a ratchagan (civil service) freebie. The van had been properly booked and they were all on their way incognito to Surat to arrest a criminal. 

 

A Rooster “insertion of irony” was not necessary. The standard “misunderstanding” story spoke for itself. 

 

But your cantankerous cock couldn't resist going to town when Big Pat (chief Suwat) and Big Joke (Surachate ex-IB highflyer) appeared at a virtual event to launch the pilot Smart Safety Zone 4.0 in 15 pilot areas. 

 

Anyway, whoever said sarcasm was the lowest form of wit? Not the RTP who are just the lowest form of nit.

 

Just get some officers out on the beat smiling a bit. The walk will do wonders for the waistline and the people might appreciate a friendly face.

 

Thais did show that they CAN do sarcasm with the picture of a boy fishing in a rowboat in a potholed road the locals want repaired. But they should be careful.

 

Posting pictures like that online draws the wrath of municipalities as happened several years ago when an attractive woman bathed in a pothole and faced a defamation threat.

 

When the line is crossed there is always the libel laws where the truth is irrelevant. And where that line is a zigzag whose depth of zig and zag depends on who you are and who you offended. 

 

Offending morals, according to the cyber cops, were a young couple raided at a hotel in Bang Phli who were charged in relation to making explicit content and having the temerity to put videos on OnlyFans and make money. (Subsequently the RTP spokesman said people shouldn’t wear “cosplay to depict them - frankly you couldn’t make it up).

 

Lackeys of the Law, media Naew Na, led the outrage then got stung as a story about a foreigner in Bangkok making bread with his foot was proved to be ancient news from India. 

 

Scandalously, the immigration chief initiated an expensive nationwide crackdown to find the culprit when all the “IT experts” at the IB had to do was look at an Indian news logo, as pointed out by ASEAN NOW Facebook posters within minutes of the original story.

 

It was a case in point pertinent to Rooster’s comments about wasting time and money made last week. And set the lie to IB claims that their systems were watertight as they denied responsibility for a hack of 106 million tourists’ data this week. 

 

Still, using feet to make bread rather than insert in mouth provided a nice diversion and a chance for posters to remind Thais that French people trample grapes underfoot.

 

Apropos, I’ve joined a few winemaking sites though I wouldn't dream of breaking any Thai laws. As a kid we had vines in the garden and in one very sunny year - 1976 - I trod the grapes. The wort was so acidic it nearly killed the yeast. The resulting brew, after the addition of sugar, was alcoholic and revolting. My co-conspirators and I distilled it with a saucepan, tubes and washing up bowl. 

 

“Triple XXX” nearly made us more blind than all those mags we found under train seats.

 

The number of Thai based Brits came out in a Richard Barrow interview with acting ambassador HE Mark Gooding.

 

Mr Barrow got a bit of flak for not asking incisive questions but that came from the crowd who can’t or won't read stories before commenting. He asked probing questions nearer the end but didn’t get many decent answers. Good things have been said about his consular representative in Chiang Mai, however. 

 

In Lurgy Latest it was announced that all first jabs in October would be Sinovac. Yes, Mr Trink, any comment would be superfluous.

 

Hua Hin was apparently heaving with Bangkokians out for the day. Down in Phuket plod raided bars in Patong where it was said that alcohol had been served for a month. 

 

Clearly the constabulary turned a blind eye (it’s a known fact that a Specsavers survey in Thailand revealed that opening a store within 300 meters of a police station would be unprofitable).

 

Expect transfers in Phuket along the lines of what happened in Phitsanulok after a cop was featured online brandishing an AK-47 when he didn’t get enough chilis in his Som Tam at a restaurant in Kamphaengphet. OK, it was either that or he was plastered.

 

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that the CCSA had agreed to allow people from five nations in South Asia to get Certificates of Entry to Thailand again. 

 

In Pattaya related news, two foreigners were let off the death penalty by the Supreme Court and freed. These characters are not the sort that nice girls take home to mother. Hell’s Angel relatives, they were mixed up in the brutal 2015 slaying of Wesley Schneider who, not unreasonably, wanted his $10 million back after a drugs haul ended up in the sea.

 

Expats may not be able to buy a house but they soon might be able to get cheaper wine. 

 

Moves are in the pipeline to slash excise to attract those “well-heeled” foreigners. Personally, if I had a million bucks I probably wouldn’t care how much my Rioja cost and it wouldn’t figure in my decision making in coming to the kingdom. Still, the forum predictably got in a right lather, frothing more than Rooster’s demijohn. 

 

The problem, as always is that when excise goes down suppliers see the chance to make more money. Prices stay similar. Hopefully some will understand that cheaper booze might mean more demand, ergo more profit. 

 

Two other popular click-a-thons this week featured forum favorites; dual pricing and threats about deportation. Both involved hospitals.

 

(One poster spoke of “duel pricing” raising the prospect of cheaper pistols at dawn combat on Walking Street).

 

We shall have to wait another week for Erwin Buse’s case about the unconstitutionality of different prices at Hua Hin Hospital.

 

The Dutch man has gone to court over payments he made years ago while having cancer treatment. Judges accepted the case and will rule this coming Tuesday.

 

Mr Buse - a tenacious and dogged fighter who keeps Rooster on his toes in our interactions  - is to be praised for his efforts on behalf of many. 

 

While there is a case for some dual pricing of tourists who don’t pay tax in Thailand, state sponsored rip-offs at places like hospitals and national parks should end. And private companies that shamelessly rob non-Thais with pricing signs in Thai numerals should be boycotted or sent a “stiff letter”. 

 

How about ก-โกง (goong=swindle).

 

The other story featured a Samui Brit who said he was threatened with deportation in emails from an island hospital. He wasn’t as poor as he initially made out when faced with a 60K Covid quarantine bill, but in my dealings with him he sounded like a decent man and the language from the hospital was heavy handed to say the least. 

 

A year on from the railway crossing collision in Chachoengsao that killed 19 kathin merit makers and there still is no barrier. However, that appeared less important in the story than the headless man haunting the nearby derelict station. 

 

Not wishing to get to the after-life before my time I made sure this week that I would not forget Mrs R’s birthday like previous years’ debacles. She was confused by the plethora of Post-It notes all over the duplex but it did the trick. 

 

If she lives to be twice as old then she’ll be two fat ladies according to bingo parlance.

 

In more internet news Thailand got only 36 out of a hundred by Freedom House for net freedom. Myanmar got 17 and China 10 as Iceland topped the world. 

 

On Friday it was reported that Bangkok’s Benjakitti Forest Park would finally be open in February. As Rooster pointed out, translating gushing Thai media news about “fresh air and lungs”, that might be anything but the case if February’s choking pollution returns. 

 

Finally, a story that caught my eye on the BBC reported that the MCC (Marylebone Cricket Club) who control the game in England had now banned the use of the term “batsman”.

 

Hereafter we must use the gender-neutral term “batter”.

 

Now what am I gonna do with my fish and chips?

 

Rooster

 

 

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[Rampant Rabbit]

5 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

There was also a groundswell of netizens who feared Thailand becoming the next province of China

Jesus  how  hard  is it to  put in a NO  CHINESE  CLAUSE THEN

[Rampant Rabbit]

7 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

Finally, a story that caught my eye on the BBC reported that the MCC (Marylebone Cricket Club) who control the game in England had now banned the use of the term “batsman”.

"batty" would be  more  apt

[fangless]

15 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Jesus  how  hard  is it to  put in a NO  CHINESE  CLAUSE THEN

Discrimination comes to mind, or to put it another way; do you really thing the Thai Government would allow such a clause against their masters! neighbours?

[Rampant Rabbit]

20 minutes ago, fangless said:

Discrimination

Ah c'mon they really dont care at  all  about  discrimination

[Pedrogaz]

My own view is that selling a tiny piece of land here and there is no issue....and indeed, as I understand it you can actually buy ca 1 rai of land if you are prepared to go through the bureaucratic maze.

But making Thailand land for sale, it is not the Chinese I worry about, it is US agribusiness that will purchase huge tracts of land. There is little left for them to buy in the US having driven the vast majority of small farmers of the land to make way for 'efficient' mega farms (ie mega profits) farming GM produce, cows full of hormones, and free range chickens full of chlorine. 

Keep it as it is. Personally I never understood the sentimentality of Brits (especially) on this issue. I'm 68, I have a renewable for a total of 90 years.....I'll be dead and gone before the lease expires. I don't care whether I actually 'own' the land.

[Purdey]

The Thai government will not discriminate against certain foreigners due to the uproar it would cause. Not sure why white guys are happy to suggest such things when back home no government would dare. The Thai government is fair enough to discriminate against all foreigners as a whole.

Anyone who remembers Russian oligarchs and Saudi princes buying up London properties will know how the locals got quite upset (jealous maybe a better description).

An usufruct agreement on property in Thailand guarantees you won’t get kicked out within 30 years at least, by which time you will have passed on to the the land of free pastures.

[markeewan]

A Chairman will now be known as the Chairer, if we follow that logic, no doubt?

[phetphet]

2 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

"batty" would be  more  apt

And the linesman or linesmen? Liners?

[StevieAus]

33 minutes ago, Purdey said:

The Thai government will not discriminate against certain foreigners due to the uproar it would cause. Not sure why white guys are happy to suggest such things when back home no government would dare. The Thai government is fair enough to discriminate against all foreigners as a whole.

Anyone who remembers Russian oligarchs and Saudi princes buying up London properties will know how the locals got quite upset (jealous maybe a better description).

An usufruct agreement on property in Thailand guarantees you won’t get kicked out within 30 years at least, by which time you will have passed on to the the land of free pastures.

Congratulations on the most rational and factual quote of the day on the subject.

Our home, adjoining land, other land and two business’s have my name on them by way of usufruct.

Somehow I don’t see myself reaching one hundred years old and not sure if I want to and in the meantime if things go “ mango shaped” to quote Rooster which I doubt, I will take my chances arguing for a fifty percent split in the Divorce Court.

 

 

[Muhendis]

As I see it, the Thai government wants to raise one trillion Baht over the next five years and selling parcels of land to wealthy foreigners is thought to be a good way to do it. The question for me is why? One answer I can think of is that there is a big empty hole in the state coffers which needs to be refilled

A better way to raise a trillion Baht would surely be to look where all the tax revenue is going at the moment. I don't know what the figures are for corruption in Thailand but I bet it's high enough to keep the coffers well stocked.

[Ddbanksy]

3 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

"batty" would be  more  apt

So when he or she is given out,they are presumed "battered"? 555

 

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

The Thai government will not discriminate against certain foreigners due to the uproar it would cause. Not sure why white guys are happy to suggest such things when back home no government would dare. The Thai government is fair enough to discriminate against all foreigners as a whole.

Anyone who remembers Russian oligarchs and Saudi princes buying up London properties will know how the locals got quite upset (jealous maybe a better description).

An usufruct agreement on property in Thailand guarantees you won’t get kicked out within 30 years at least, by which time you will have passed on to the the land of free pastures.

A lease can be for 30 years , a usufruct is for your lifetime but in a diviorce the court takes control and can order you out from the home and a 50/50 split of marital assests.

[RobU]

If foreigners are allowed to own land Thailand could become like the uk where land/house price rises are fuelled by demand from foreign buyers and immigrants, pricing the poorer indigenous population out of the market

[BadSpottedDog]

Apparently, no one is paying attention to the Evergrande situation in China. "Some people" need to keep their eyes open.
https://nypost.com/2021/09/22/evergrande-collapse-could-be-worse-than-lehman-for-china/

[fangless]

3 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Ah c'mon they really dont care at  all  about  discrimination

Who don't care?

[Rampant Rabbit]

8 minutes ago, fangless said:

Who don't care?

thais

[Thunglom]

4 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Jesus  how  hard  is it to  put in a NO  CHINESE  CLAUSE THEN

don't think you've thought that through!

[Thunglom]

probably a good way to look at it is to see how Australia has dealt with foreign land ownership - and look at the percentages.

 

Over 80% of Australians think Chinese have caused property prices to rise - this is incorrect,

 

One problem in Oz is foreigners can't buy old stock they can only invest in new.

[mahtin]

How about the umpire raising an arm with one extended finger in response to an appeal of Howzat! for LBW or a run-out?

 

 

(if baseball's your game LBW is leg before wicket, nothing to do with lesbians or bi).

[Thunglom]

lots of people saying "NO CHINESE" - but no one is saying why.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, phetphet said:

And the linesman or linesmen? Liners?

You could call them what you like. I don't really follow football, but I understand from those who do that they are usually blind and deaf!

[monty1412]

6 hours ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Jesus  how  hard  is it to  put in a NO  CHINESE  CLAUSE THEN

Rampant Rabbit , you have the wrong end of the chopstick my friend.... when TAT measures success by number of tourists / visitors and not be a sensible metric say like  "local spend per tourist head" then plane and shiploads of Chinese tourists arriving will always be the flavour

[connda]

Like Peter Pan.
"Every Time A Child Says "I Don't Believe In Fairies" There Is A Fairy Somewhere That Falls Down Dead"

With 'Conspiracy Theories."
Every Time A Person Is Told That They, "Shouldn't Believe The Conspiracy Theory" There Is Truth Somewhere That Falls Down Dead."

Too often nowadays, yesterday's "conspiracy theory" becomes today's 'fact.' 
Propaganda - in whatever form, seeks to pull the outliers toward the center - towards the 'commonly accepted narrative.'  The trouble being, too often the commonly accepted narrative eventually gets shot full of holes and is in fact not the truth.

Is there "whacko <deleted>" out there?  Sure.  Is all "whacko <deleted>" false?  Nope.  Over time, the Truth, like cream, rises to the top.  It just takes time.

[maxcorrigan]

Always surprises me when someone as Rooster has mentions "Sarcasm as being the lowest form of wit" by Oscar Wilde, they never mention the rest of the quote being " Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and the highest form of intelligence" which puts a totally different light to the saying which is usually used as a putdown!

[connda]

35 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

Always surprises me when someone as Rooster has mentions "Sarcasm as being the lowest form of wit" by Oscar Wilde, they never mention the rest of the quote being " Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, and the highest form of intelligence" which puts a totally different light to the saying which is usually used as a putdown!

And 'editing' hides 'truths.'

 

[Moonlover]

5 hours ago, markeewan said:

A Chairman will now be known as the Chairer, if we follow that logic, no doubt?

Too late, that one's already been snapped up. He or she is now the Chairperson.

[WinterGael]

5 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

My own view is that selling a tiny piece of land here and there is no issue....and indeed, as I understand it you can actually buy ca 1 rai of land if you are prepared to go through the bureaucratic maze.

But making Thailand land for sale, it is not the Chinese I worry about, it is US agribusiness that will purchase huge tracts of land. There is little left for them to buy in the US having driven the vast majority of small farmers of the land to make way for 'efficient' mega farms (ie mega profits) farming GM produce, cows full of hormones, and free range chickens full of chlorine. 

Keep it as it is. Personally I never understood the sentimentality of Brits (especially) on this issue. I'm 68, I have a renewable for a total of 90 years.....I'll be dead and gone before the lease expires. I don't care whether I actually 'own' the land.

I agree 100%.  My brother has leased land in the Philippines.  He built on it (beautiful house), and he's retiring there.  Totally protected by law.  If I had kids, then I would simply buy my wife a home in her name knowing that if the marriage went south I would get nothing.  But my kids would, as that can be addressed in the purchase.  

 

If there is one thing COVID has done for Thailand, it has shown how flawed the countries economy is.  Someone on here stated that tourism accounts for less than 20% of GDP.  looking around me, I'd say its more like 30 to 40 percent.  That's great for a bike little island nation, but deplorable for a country like Thailand.  And all these residence schemes and now land possible land sales just emphasises Thailand's need for foreign money in a way that is unthinkable for most nations.  This is not the investment the country needs. 

 

Thailand needs to make its economy more competitive against its neighbours again rather than trying to be like another Taiwan or South Korea:  those days are gone.  It needs to start investing in its agricultural economy.  Thai rice used to be some of the best, now India, Vietnam, the Philippines have far superior varieties... 

 

In the end,this all comes down to governments that do not know what they are doing...

[Bebop77]

6 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Keep it as it is. Personally I never understood the sentimentality of Brits (especially) on this issue. I'm 68, I have a renewable for a total of 90 years.....I'll be dead and gone before the lease expires. I don't care whether I actually 'own' the land.

No children ?

Edited September 26, 2021 by Bebop77

[RobU]

13 minutes ago, Bebop77 said:

No children ?

As has been posted before let your wife own it it still goes to the children when she dies