Wise transfers not being processed as International (Specifically Bangkok Bank)

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, mojaco said:

I just checked setting up transfers in my case.  If less than $1,500 the final screen says it will go "in seconds".  If more than that amount the final screen lets me "schedule" the transfer.  And I had an email from Wise yesterday confirming they "tagged" my receiving account to always (if possible) us Bangkok Bank as the partner bank.  And I also chose "sending for long term stay in Thailand".  So, I will just have to wait and see for the next couple of weeks before I decide how to send my November 65,000 Baht . . . Wise "International", Wise SWIFT, or SWIFT from a bank in the USA.

Actually found that since change to Wise name amount of $1,500 is confirmed be it immediate or next day if select "long stay" without need for them to first obtain funds - but if more they want me to sign on to my bank account now (not required prior name change).  As unable to sign on as bank requires online selection of pin or password first (which they do not take into account) have option to have them make two deposits and transfer is immediate after you enter the amounts.  Just to point out up to 1.5k USD may be an automatic approved transfer prior to receiving ACH money transfer now.

Edited October 17, 2021 by lopburi3

[pontious]

We should not forget all these problems we are having is due to certain embassies refusing to issue income letters. I am sure 99.9 per cent of us could have provided the necessary documentation.  It is they who have thrown us under the bus.

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, pontious said:

We should not forget all these problems we are having is due to certain embassies refusing to issue income letters. I am sure 99.9 per cent of us could have provided the necessary documentation.  It is they who have thrown us under the bus.

I believe it was immigration making new demands that Embassies had to guarantee data - which most western governments can not do by law.

[Eibot]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:57 AM, Moonlover said:

I've been using Wise (TransferWise) transactions for the last 3 years without a single FTT entry appearing on my Krungsri bank statements.

 

3 different IOs have accepted the transaction confirmation slips from Wise as proof that the entries are genuine international deposits.

 

So stop fretting you guys, if this is a permanent change, as I suspect it is, immigration will soon get used to the fact and adapt their ways to suit reality.

Same here. Krungsri and never showed up as FTT. Unfortunately, my IO doesn't accept this (Phuket). Also, not showing up as FTT is not just a problem for immigration. Buying a house for example sometimes also needs proof of funds coming from abroad. Furthermore, if you want to transfer large sums of money OUT of Thailand, you'll sometimes also need to proof the money originally came from abroad. 

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, pontious said:

We should not forget all these problems we are having is due to certain embassies refusing to issue income letters. I am sure 99.9 per cent of us could have provided the necessary documentation.  It is they who have thrown us under the bus.

That has nothing to do with coding received from a Wise transfer.   

 

Yes, that forced some people to start doing monthly transfers from money transfer services like Wise, home country banks, etc., but it has nothing to do with this coding issue.   Even if those embassies started issuing such letters again today it would not fix the transfer coding issue....some people would still be needing the int'l coding because they don't use/never used the embassy income letter method.   Fixing the coding is a Wise and partner bank issue.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

When I mentioned a credit advice to my branch the chap I was dealing with advised me that I could register have them sent automatically, I did so and one arrives about 30 minutes or so each time after I get an SMS saying "theoldgit has transferred THB00,000 to account 0000000), there's no fee for this service.

 

I made a transfer on Friday, tomorrow afternoon I'll know if my fears are unfounded or whether I need to make another transfer, via another route, to get the magic tag 

Which bank was it that you used?

 

I do 3 transfers per month plus the 13th month for my state pension, 37 per year. At KPP I need the original plus 1 copy of all my files to go to the regional office in CM.

 

[billd766]

37 minutes ago, pontious said:

We should not forget all these problems we are having is due to certain embassies refusing to issue income letters. I am sure 99.9 per cent of us could have provided the necessary documentation.  It is they who have thrown us under the bus.

But those embassies had/have no way of proving the source of the income. For the UK State pension they would need access to perhaps thousands of accounts and the same for each individual pensions.

 

They would fall foul of each pension provider who by UK law cannot reveal anything about your finances to just anybody.

[theoldgit]

13 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Which bank was it that you used?

 

I do 3 transfers per month plus the 13th month for my state pension, 37 per year. At KPP I need the original plus 1 copy of all my files to go to the regional office in CM.

 

Bangkok Bank

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, Pib said:

Fixing the coding is a Wise and partner bank issue.

Or get the money from your overseas bank sent directly from them to your Thai bank account. 

 

It not what do I will still use Wise myself but I will look on my online UK to see exactly what the cost difference is out of interest.

 

If I was in a position to send 65,000 baht a month to Thailand l'd just get it over to satisfy Thai immigration anyways. ????

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Bangkok Bank

Thank you.

[Moonlover]

20 minutes ago, billd766 said:

But those embassies had/have no way of proving the source of the income. For the UK State pension they would need access to perhaps thousands of accounts and the same for each individual pensions.

 

They would fall foul of each pension provider who by UK law cannot reveal anything about your finances to just anybody.

Yes you're right. This was the prime reason given by the British embassy for cancelling the facility.

 

But the irony is that my IO asks to see 'proof of income' along with the bank deposit details. And what do I show him?

 

The same 3 pension statements that I used to present to the embassy when applying for my letter!

[mojaco]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

How long did it take Wise to answer you in saying your acct had been tagged?

 

I sent  message from within my Wise acct on 14 Oct/approx 6pm (Thailand time) to have an acct tagged (another kinda new Bangkok Bank acct), got an immediate automated response saying message received.....then on 15 Oct/2am I got response from a human at Wise saying they will contact their payment section to see if tagging is possible and get back to me.....which as of 17 Oct/10am they haven't....but maybe the weekend is slowing down their response.   If no response by around Tuesday I will ping them again.

 

A few years ago when I asked for an acct to be tagged I got the same sequence of responses...that is, first an immediate confirmation my message was rec'd....then a human responded they would relay my request to their Payments Section, and then another response from a human saying the tag had been completed.....took a total of 2 days from asking to done-deal.   

 

 

It was 2 days later they emailed me my account was now tagged.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

That has nothing to do with coding received from a Wise transfer.   

 

Yes, that forced some people to start doing monthly transfers from money transfer services like Wise, home country banks, etc., but it has nothing to do with this coding issue.   Even if those embassies started issuing such letters again today it would not fix the transfer coding issue....some people would still be needing the int'l coding because they don't use/never used the embassy income letter method.   Fixing the coding is a Wise and partner bank issue.

Sorry, but there is a  flaw in your logic. Prior to the withdrawal of the letters by the 'big 3', all embassies issued income letters and the immigration officers would only accept those letters as proof of income. So the question of these coding's never arose.

 

The problem that many are now facing has nothing to do with Wise or the banks. It's all down to the lack of flexibility shown by certain Immigration offices in not accepting that not everyone is able to get TFF codes and accepting alternative methods of proof.

 

As indeed many actually do, including our own office in Sakon Nakhon.

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Moonlover

[lungbing]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

But those embassies had/have no way of proving the source of the income. For the UK State pension they would need access to perhaps thousands of accounts and the same for each individual pensions.

 

They would fall foul of each pension provider who by UK law cannot reveal anything about your finances to just anybody.

But you get a letter from your personal pension company and the State pension company.  When the British Embassy were providing the letter I just sent them copies of the letters as proof.  In fact I use the same letters when the IO gets nosy and asks where my money comes from. 

[billd766]

16 hours ago, lungbing said:

But you get a letter from your personal pension company and the State pension company.  When the British Embassy were providing the letter I just sent them copies of the letters as proof.  In fact I use the same letters when the IO gets nosy and asks where my money comes from. 

True, but I had to ring my pension providers in the first place. Both the State pension and my military pension sent the letter by snail mail yet the company pension sent theirs by email with a security code by a separate email.

[scubascuba3]

I got a response from Wise, he appeared to understand when I talked to him but clearly didn't, I've replied, explained yet again and asked for it to be escalated. Somehow we need these complaints to go to UK and up the chain

[KannikaP]

On 10/9/2021 at 8:51 AM, norbra said:

You will find that sll banks have been affected by this , hopefully for all it is just a hiccup

Wise only use Bangkok and Kasikorn banks as their partners,so transfers to any other Thai bank will always appear as a local transfer.

[KannikaP]

On 10/14/2021 at 8:06 PM, Pib said:

Why would they since he didn't do the SWIFT transfer from his bank; he did it from Wise.

I think he means the receiving bank.

When doing a SWIFT from Nationwide you can say whether they pay all the charges, or just theirs and the receiving bank take theirs separatly.

Be aware that some banks, including Nationwide, use an intermediate bank who also want their cut.

[treetops]

10 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Wise only use Bangkok and Kasikorn banks as their partners,so transfers to any other Thai bank will always appear as a local transfer.

Wise also use DeeMoney as a partner, but they also appear as a local transfer when I've noticed it, although not sure what reason I would have given for the transaction.

[KannikaP]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:18 AM, lopburi3 said:

Actually found that since change to Wise name amount of $1,500 is confirmed be it immediate or next day if select "long stay" without need for them to first obtain funds - but if more they want me to sign on to my bank account now (not required prior name change).  As unable to sign on as bank requires online selection of pin or password first (which they do not take into account) have option to have them make two deposits and transfer is immediate after you enter the amounts.  Just to point out up to 1.5k USD may be an automatic approved transfer prior to receiving ACH money transfer now.

I am pretty sure that Wise WILL NOT send any money to your transferee until they have all the money in their account.

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, treetops said:

Wise also use DeeMoney as a partner, but they also appear as a local transfer when I've noticed it, although not sure what reason I would have given for the transaction.

Yes I saw that, Dee Money are an outfit specialising in sending money OUT of Thailand so I guess Wise will send them foreign currencies which they, Dee, will use to repatriate when asked. Dee will transfer THB to Wise's local accounts.

[norbra]

26 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Wise only use Bangkok and Kasikorn banks as their partners,so transfers to any other Thai bank will always appear as a local transfer.

Kbank is a local transfer and has been since the start of 2019 That is why kbank users must have a creditadvise (for Immigration) as it shows the (FTT) order for kbank to pay the recipient came from abroad.

Edited October 18, 2021 by norbra

[KannikaP]

IMPORTANT UPDATE.

An hour ago I did a £50 Wise transfer funded from my Nationwide current account to go to my Primary bank, ie Bangkok Bank. It was instant and not coded as FTT even though I ticked the 'long term stay' reason. It went via Kasikorn Bank.

[mfd101]

I have just received the funds I requested via Wise on Saturday morning (16th). I don't usually do transfers at the weekend but the midrate for AUD to ฿ was good (24.826) and Wise gave me a slightly better rate (24.8331).

 

As noted above on Saturday, I chose as always the 'Longterm stay in TL' item and, after transferring the funds from my Oz bank to Wise, pressed the GO button. Arrived a few minutes ago (1415 ICT) exactly as planned, and noted on my BKK bank account as International Transfer. When I update my bank book in a few days, it will undoubtedly show as FTT.

[skatewash]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:33 AM, lopburi3 said:

I believe it was immigration making new demands that Embassies had to guarantee data - which most western governments can not do by law.

I believe it was embassies jumping at the opportunity to discontinue doing something that they didn't like doing.  What the embassies were doing was not illegal.  They were witnessing the signing of an affidavit by a recognized holder of a US passport.  If that was unacceptable to immigration, then immigration could have rejected those affidavits.  That's not what happened.  UK and US unilaterally decided to stop issuing such affidavits.  Canada still issues such letters.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, skatewash said:

If that was unacceptable to immigration, then immigration could have rejected those affidavits.

Which is what happened - after set date such affidavits would not be accepted by immigration without Embassy guarantee information was valid - major states with privacy laws could not do that.

[pablo el sueco]

14 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

IMPORTANT UPDATE.

An hour ago I did a £50 Wise transfer funded from my Nationwide current account to go to my Primary bank, ie Bangkok Bank. It was instant and not coded as FTT even though I ticked the 'long term stay' reason. It went via Kasikorn Bank.

Sorry to hear that.  I just had a different experience.  An hour ago I did a small transfer to my Primary bank (Bangkok Bank) but it will not arrive until tomorrow.  In my case, I had just received an email from WISE telling me they had tagged my account to use Bangkok Bank as the "partner" bank.  I don't think it is enough to have Bangkok Bank be designated as the "Primary bank".   I think you need to request, as I did a few days ago, that WISE "tag my account to only use Bangkok Bank (BBL) as the partner bank".

[skatewash]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Which is what happened - after set date such affidavits would not be accepted by immigration without Embassy guarantee information was valid - major states with privacy laws could not do that.

So you agree that Thai immigration did not in fact reject any affidavits from those embassies, that those embassies decided to stop issuing such letters unilaterally.  Major states with privacy laws like Canada, Germany, Netherlands, basically all major states except for US, UK, and Australia do it all the time.  All the embassies were guaranteeing was that the citizen swore before an official of the US government and signed an affidavit in his/her presence.  If that was unacceptable then Thai Immigration would have rejected the affidavits from those countries.  That never happened, because those countries decided to not issue the letters.  We don't know what Thai Immigration would have done because those three governments pre-empted their response, they picked up their ball and went home.  They did that because they don't see their job as serving the interests of their citizens and wanted to get out of the business of serving their citizens in this capacity.  They stopped the income letters without any plan being in place for their citizens.  The monthly deposit method was concocted and allowed by Thai Immigration as a lifeline to those citizens who were abandoned by their embassies.

[norbra]

7 minutes ago, skatewash said:

So you agree that Thai immigration did not in fact reject any affidavits from those embassies, that those embassies decided to stop issuing such letters unilaterally.  Major states with privacy laws like Canada, Germany, Netherlands, basically all major states except for US, UK, and Australia do it all the time.  All the embassies were guaranteeing was that the citizen swore before an official of the US government and signed an affidavit in his/her presence.  If that was unacceptable then Thai Immigration would have rejected the affidavits from those countries.  That never happened, because those countries decided to not issue the letters.  We don't know what Thai Immigration would have done because those three governments pre-empted their response, they picked up their ball and went home.  They did that because they don't see their job as serving the interests of their citizens and wanted to get out of the business of serving their citizens in this capacity.  They stopped the income letters without any plan being in place for their citizens.  The monthly deposit method was concocted and allowed by Thai Immigration as a lifeline to those citizens who were abandoned by their embassies.

Monthly deposits/transfers have been valid for longer than when  the embassy stopping "letters" happened

[treetops]

21 minutes ago, skatewash said:

So you agree that Thai immigration did not in fact reject any affidavits from those embassies, that those embassies decided to stop issuing such letters unilaterally.  Major states with privacy laws like Canada, Germany, Netherlands, basically all major states except for US, UK, and Australia do it all the time.  All the embassies were guaranteeing was that the citizen swore before an official of the US government and signed an affidavit in his/her presence.  If that was unacceptable then Thai Immigration would have rejected the affidavits from those countries.  That never happened, because those countries decided to not issue the letters.  We don't know what Thai Immigration would have done because those three governments pre-empted their response, they picked up their ball and went home.  They did that because they don't see their job as serving the interests of their citizens and wanted to get out of the business of serving their citizens in this capacity.  They stopped the income letters without any plan being in place for their citizens.  The monthly deposit method was concocted and allowed by Thai Immigration as a lifeline to those citizens who were abandoned by their embassies.

That's got to be the most twisted interpretation of what happened ever posted, and there were a few on here at the time.