Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Putin will not conquer Ukraine, because there is no way Europe will let that happen. If a win is Crimea and new borders? Then you will be right. 

 

 

I see that you think Putin's game is all of Ukraine, but IMO that was never the plan. Ukraine is huge and Russia could never control all of it. No, he just wants the east and Crimea, where he has a supportive population and a defensible border.

That has been my opinion since day one of the invasion.

 

Putin hasn't lasted this long by being stupid, and IMO he's not going to start now.

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I see that you think Putin's game is all of Ukraine, but IMO that was never the plan. Ukraine is huge and Russia could never control all of it. No, he just wants the east and Crimea, where he has a supportive population and a defensible border.

That has been my opinion since day one of the invasion.

 

Putin hasn't lasted this long by being stupid, and IMO he's not going to start now.

You are wrong on all counts (as usual), of course Putin's plan was to take all of Ukraine, his rag tag army were on their way to Kyiv to install his own muppet/puppet government untill they were repelled by Ukrainian soldiers. He cannot even take all the Oblasts he set up illegal voting for.

[Hummin]

35 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

You are wrong on all counts (as usual), of course Putin's plan was to take all of Ukraine, his rag tag army were on their way to Kyiv to install his own muppet/puppet government untill they were repelled by Ukrainian soldiers. He cannot even take all the Oblasts he set up illegal voting for.

I try not to be to sure about everything and anything, except this is a great dissaster for Europe, the Ukrainian and Russian People

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I somewhat disagree that it was a betrayal. I was against supporting Ukraine from the first, being of the opinion that Russia would win anyway. Seems I'm almost at the stage of saying "I told you so".

IMO it's more a realisation that no amount of taxpayer money they throw away in Ukraine is going to win anything, and the money would have been better spent giving nurses and ambulance drivers in the UK a pay rise.

 

I also think that all Russia had to do was wait till the west used up all their spare missiles and shells, which seems to be where we are. It's not like the west moved onto a war footing to manufacture more.

 

I suppose we should be grateful that the maniacs were not able to send western boys to die on the Ukrainian front line.

There were a few posts from some western guy volunteered to go join the Ukrainian foreign volunteers way back near the start. I wonder if he's still thinking it was worth while, or if he's even thinking any more.

 

Anyway, the action on here seems to have moved on, given hardly anyone posts on this sub forum now, or claims that the "orcs" are going to be defeated, for sure for sure.

There was even a much vaunted Mozart Group battalion of foreign mercenaries as a counterpoint to Wagner that had much publicity until it fell apart with infighting and alleged corruption. The western press was full of puff pieces about their competencies and the difference they would make.

 

In January 2023, the Mozart Group became defunct after running out of funds. In its final months, it was faced with defections, infighting, financial issues and a legal dispute between the Mozart Group's two co-founders.[1] Soldiers of the Mozart Group were also known to gravitate towards Kyiv’s strip clubs and bars when they were off duty.[12] Serious allegations, arose accusing Milburn of making derogatory comments about Ukraine’s leadership while “significantly intoxicated,” letting his dog urinate in a borrowed apartment, diverting company funds and other financial malfeasance.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_Group

 

https://archive.is/E0Aap

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

There was even a much vaunted Mozart Group battalion of foreign mercenaries as a counterpoint to Wagner that had much publicity until it fell apart with infighting and alleged corruption. The western press was full of puff pieces about their competencies and the difference they would make.

 

In January 2023, the Mozart Group became defunct after running out of funds. In its final months, it was faced with defections, infighting, financial issues and a legal dispute between the Mozart Group's two co-founders.[1] Soldiers of the Mozart Group were also known to gravitate towards Kyiv’s strip clubs and bars when they were off duty.[12] Serious allegations, arose accusing Milburn of making derogatory comments about Ukraine’s leadership while “significantly intoxicated,” letting his dog urinate in a borrowed apartment, diverting company funds and other financial malfeasance.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_Group

 

https://archive.is/E0Aap

Mozart group was discussed here numerous times. We have also finished discussing Wagner. This is more a daily events topic

[Wobblybob]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I try not to be to sure about everything and anything, except this is a great dissaster for Europe, the Ukrainian and Russian People

 

 

Could you please be more specific?

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I have suspected as much given the lack of cheering for them breaking through in the much vaunted Ukrainian "counter offensive", which turned out to be not much at all.

One suspects that giving the Russians all winter to reinforce their defensive lines and trumpeting the offensive endlessly, thereby removing any surprise, it was a "disappointment" waiting to happen.

 

One wonders how many Ukrainians that managed to escape conscription by moving to places like Thailand are volunteering to swap sunny Thailand for a cold trench in the Ukrainian front line.

It would appear they are being used as expensive artillery deep behind the front lines. If this war has taught us anything, big ticket pieces like tanks and boats are sitting ducks in the drone age and can be taken down by cheap tech that is a mere fraction of their price and defeated by mud, minefields and extensive use of shovels. And this has been a huge bugbear for Ukraine, you can't just dump your ageing inventory of old equipment from hither and thither direct into a front line. The complications and complexities of a menagerie of tech is a nightmare to understand and maintain (just the absence of Cyrillic labels is a start), and Ukrainians have complained that many were faulty on arrival. Bore diameters between kit whilst seemingly the same has proved problematic, as has the quality and variants of fuel. The M1 Abrams for instance needs jet fuel 500 gallons for 350 miles of operation. So that alone needs its own tanker fleet able to support them. The F16s if they eventually arrive will need pristine runways as the slightest debris can jam the engines and cause malfunction, and any bases will be sitting targets for Kinzhals. Now western intelligence know all of this and when you couple in the acute conscription problem and lack of air defence (it's suggested that the recent loss of Patriots is the fact that Ukraine has moved them nearer to the front line to try and deflect the relentless FAB glide bombs assault on the front lines and by so doing is depleting critical air defence in Kyiv and other key sites). With drones, both sides see pretty much everything that is going on. There is no longer any place to hide.

 

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/29778

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/17/after-two-years-of-war-ukraine-still-has-a-thousand-tanks/?sh=510e304b2cd8

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-f-16-fighter-jets-war-russia-base-runway/

 

“If you ever walked up and put your hands on a MiG-29 at an air show and then walked right over and put your hands on an F-16, you can feel just from the outside how the F-16 is highly engineered. It is a prima donna, and it is very sensitive and needs high maintenance,” said Richter, who used the call sign T-Bone. The Soviet planes are more “rough and tumble” and can fly off poorly maintained airfields, and need less maintenance.

In a different situation, Ukraine would build modern bases and runways to host the jets, but that's not possible during the war.

[beautifulthailand99]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Mozart group was discussed here numerous times. We have also finished discussing Wagner. This is more a daily events topic

With all due respect, a fellow poster mentioned foreign mercenaries, and it sparked a memory about one aspect of that, and I crafted a response with appropriate well sourced evidence. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

With all due respect, a fellow poster mentioned foreign mercenaries, and it sparked a memory about one aspect of that, and I crafted a response with appropriate well sourced evidence. 

Ok, I have memories of when they were discussed nearly 2 years ago

 

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ok, I have memories of when they were discussed nearly 2 years ago

 

Both of us probably spend far too much time studying stuff that doesn't directly affect us. On the Russo-Ukraine war my time is 6 to 8 hours daily 7 days a week for 2 years - which if I had put it to a degree I would have got another one. But what it has taught me is the narrative that is spun and projected in the mainstream press is a shadow of the reality and that public opinion is shaped and overarching narratives are spun by Western journalists en masse for the most part to align with western foreign policy objectives. There is a consensus - until extreme reality intrudes, and then they need to change it. We are on the cusp of that inflection point IMO now. My wife on the other hand is cooking up a storm and majoring on the daily machinations of Lisa from Black Pink maybe I should learn from her !

[Bkk Brian]

28 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Both of us probably spend far too much time studying stuff that doesn't directly affect us. On the Russo-Ukraine war my time is 6 to 8 hours daily 7 days a week for 2 years - which if I had put it to a degree I would have got another one. But what it has taught me is the narrative that is spun and projected in the mainstream press is a shadow of the reality and that public opinion is shaped and overarching narratives are spun by Western journalists en masse for the most part to align with western foreign policy objectives. There is a consensus - until extreme reality intrudes, and then they need to change it. We are on the cusp of that inflection point IMO now. My wife on the other hand is cooking up a storm and majoring on the daily machinations of Lisa from Black Pink maybe I should learn from her !

This topic is not about you or me though or how much time we spend on it. 

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

If this war has taught us anything, big ticket pieces like tanks and boats are sitting ducks in the drone age and can be taken down by cheap tech that is a mere fraction of their price

Indeed, Ships are just big targets, tanks ineffective against modern missiles, aircraft likewise.

Perhaps we'll be back to WW1 frontal assaults and using horses to pull guns.

 

IMO there will be a massive push for autonomous fighting machines after this conflict is analyzed. Welcome to Skynet, LOL.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Mozart group was discussed here numerous times. We have also finished discussing Wagner. This is more a daily events topic

LOL. What "daily events" are you referring to? So few posts on here about it that one wonders if it has ended already.

Far as I can ascertain, since the Russians straightened out the front line they are digging in to repel any further Ukrainian "counter assaults" like the last fizzer. Stalemate, and time is on Russia's side.

Ukraine is out of men, ammunition and western concern. It hasn't even been on local news for many months. Hardly any posters on AN are posting about it. It's become the forgotten war.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

With all due respect, a fellow poster mentioned foreign mercenaries, and it sparked a memory about one aspect of that, and I crafted a response with appropriate well sourced evidence. 

Given foreign mercenaries are likely still fighting, it's a relevant subject, IMO.

 

Perhaps he would rather discuss how it's stalemate and Ukraine is losing.

[Bkk Brian]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. What "daily events" are you referring to? So few posts on here about it that one wonders if it has ended already.

Far as I can ascertain, since the Russians straightened out the front line they are digging in to repel any further Ukrainian "counter assaults" like the last fizzer. Stalemate, and time is on Russia's side.

Ukraine is out of men, ammunition and western concern. It hasn't even been on local news for many months. Hardly any posters on AN are posting about it. It's become the forgotten war.

LOL. What "daily events" are you referring to? So few posts on here about it that one wonders if it has ended already.

 

You obviously don't read the daily updates posted diligently by @Mavideol and others. Why do you find that so funny? Is it because 2 years ago you thought this topic would not run for very long. 

[Bkk Brian]

48 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given foreign mercenaries are likely still fighting, it's a relevant subject, IMO.

 

Perhaps he would rather discuss how it's stalemate and Ukraine is losing.

Perhaps he would rather discuss how it's stalemate and Ukraine is losing.

 

Go on then, why don't you kick that off with me rather than talking about me in the third person?

[Mavideol]

just some news updates for the usual deniers.... still wondering why Vlad has so many outsiders "lovers",  as many Russians do hate the guy   555

Russia’s political class is taking a dark and vengeful turn

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-political-class-taking-dark-214003883.html

[Mavideol]

as usual, wouldn't expect anything else from him, Putin always blames somebody else, he needed an excuse to show his "lovers" that he has to keep going with war in Ukraine.... he did ignore USA warning about the potential attack, that's understandable, had he acknowledge the USA info he wouldn't have any excuse to keep war in Ukraine.... he claimed the attack COULD/SHOULD/WOULD be ... without providing any evidence

Attack could be linked to 'neo-Nazi' Kyiv, Putin says

https://au.yahoo.com/news/attack-could-linked-neo-nazi-202119321.html

Moscow attack: Did Russia ignore US 'extremist' attacks warning?

https://au.yahoo.com/news/moscow-attack-did-russia-ignore-144655277.html

[Mavideol]

nobody has the right to challenge/criticize the legitimacy of Putin "fake" election or you will be placed on their black list 555

Russian govt calls on Australian embassy to delete post

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russian-govt-calls-australian-embassy-191636160.html

[Mavideol]

sooner rather than later Russian people will start to open their eyes and will questioning Putin decisions, he will be held accountable by Ukrainians and by Russians as well

Attacks Across Russia Border Bring Home Costs of Putin’s War

https://au.yahoo.com/finance/news/attacks-russia-border-regions-bring-160052211.html

[beautifulthailand99]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

just some news updates for the usual deniers.... still wondering why Vlad has so many outsiders "lovers",  as many Russians do hate the guy   555

Russia’s political class is taking a dark and vengeful turn

https://au.yahoo.com/news/russia-political-class-taking-dark-214003883.html

The excellent Russian Disinfo Channel that monitors Russian TV has clipped up a chilling segment from Sokolov's rantfest which gives an insight into the propaganda line Russia are taking on this. "Everybody hates us and Ukraine and their Western backers are to blame." If this is a one off then they will hammer this and move on, but if ISIS-K has the ability to conduct repeated outrages particularly in Moscow this will be a huge impediment to Putin's narrative that he can hold the line. I have to say if you want Putin to fall then probably reluctantly and with a holded nose like some of the Ukrainians channels I have read then you may welcome them as my enemy's enemy is my friend. The sad individuals that did this and scuttled away don't look like your usual run of the mill suicide bombers but then that might be down to the brutal beatings and torture they were subjected to.ISIS hate Russia for the hammering that they did to them in Syria when they were fighting alongside a ragbag of different head choppers against the Assad regime. The US was there aiding some of the groups. All very murky stuff.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

 

 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The excellent Russian Disinfo Channel that monitors Russian TV has clipped up a chilling segment from Sokolov's rantfest which gives an insight into the propaganda line Russia are taking on this. "Everybody hates us and Ukraine and their Western backers are to blame." If this is a one off then they will hammer this and move on, but if ISIS-K has the ability to conduct repeated outrages particularly in Moscow this will be a huge impediment to Putin's narrative that he can hold the line. I have to say if you want Putin to fall then probably reluctantly and with a holded nose like some of the Ukrainians channels I have read then you may welcome them as my enemy's enemy is my friend. The sad individuals that did this and scuttled away don't look like your usual run of the mill suicide bombers but then that might be down to the brutal beatings and torture they were subjected to.

 

 

I thought you might watch Russian stuff.............😬

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

I thought you might watch Russian stuff.............😬

Have a look at that channel it is produced by Ukrainian supporters to give an insight into the Russian propaganda sphere - by carefully curating, translating and highlighting exactly what it is. It is done for a purpose to expose Russian lies not promote Russian propaganda, which is why I hope it stays and folks that are interested in the conflict can add it to their list of useful sources. .

[tgw]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Perhaps he would rather discuss how it's stalemate and Ukraine is losing.

 

Go on then, why don't you kick that off with me rather than talking about me in the third person?

 

he's putting on ignore everyone that exposes his lies, so he probably can't read your post nor mine.

[jollyhangmon]

... as usual tovarich Konstantin here has got a couple good points, calls it an abysmal failure of the KGB, FSB, whatever as well as particularly their anti-terror combo, fat unit apparently stationed just 2.5km from that city hall but took 'em 50 minutes to show up while the perps had already left after 20 mins  ... etc., pp. ...

 

 

 

[Wobblybob]

3 hours ago, tgw said:

 

he's putting on ignore everyone that exposes his lies, so he probably can't read your post nor mine.

He's still reading all posts, just not brave enough to step up to the oche though.

[tgw]

5 minutes ago, jollyhangmon said:

... as usual tovarich Konstantin here has got a couple good points, calls it an abysmal failure of the KGB, FSB, whatever as well as particularly their anti-terror combo, fat unit apparently stationed just 2.5km from that city hall but took 'em 50 minutes to show up while the perps had already left after 20 mins  ... etc., pp. ...

 

my information says police response came after 90 minutes, BUT the police from this unit were actually on site with K9 the moment the shooting started, and they ... fled.

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, jollyhangmon said:

... as usual tovarich Konstantin here has got a couple good points, calls it an abysmal failure of the KGB, FSB, whatever as well as particularly their anti-terror combo, fat unit apparently stationed just 2.5km from that city hall but took 'em 50 minutes to show up while the perps had already left after 20 mins  ... etc., pp. ...

 

 

 

 

I tend to agree with the sentiments that said these atrocities have happened in France Nice, Batalan, Spain La Ramblas,UK Manchester Arena Bombing and many others and to say that Russia is unique in this intelligence fail and as a result of being distracted by Ukraine is a bit of a stretch and just Western trolling IMHO.

[beautifulthailand99]

Not surprisingly, the young now for the most part don't want to fight in a failing war, and who can blame them. An estimated 700k draft age men have fled the country indeed I met one and recounted his tale here a few weeks ago.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-faces-an-acute-manpower-shortage-with-young-men-dodging-the-draft/

 

Prolonged time on the frontlines is also drawing bitter complaints from battle-weary Ukrainian combatants demanding to be demobilized or rotated out with lengthy recuperation time. Their relatives want the same thing: On Sunday, dozens of families of frontline soldiers crowded into Kyiv’s Maidan Square to demand their husbands, fathers and boyfriends be relieved from combat, arguing they’ve done their bit and now must be demobilized or given considerable rest and relaxation.  

But that can’t happen until more Ukrainians sign up and are trained.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

But that can’t happen until more Ukrainians sign up and are trained.

IMO no one with sense "signs up" unless they think they will be on the winning side. Seems that Ukrainian men have the opinion they will not be winning.

In this event, it's normal to introduce conscription. Is it significant that Zelensky has of now not done so? Perhaps he fears a revolt from the populace, like happened in the US over Vietnam, or worse.

 

Whatever, if he can't convince Ukrainians to go fight, the end can't be too far off.