LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[K2938]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

Several quotes of senior govt personnel such as the Interior Minister regarding the LTR in how it has so far drawn a "mild" and "lukewarm" response, "disappointing" results and accepted the LTR goals may have to be adjusted, only 1,300 applications received since 1 Sep with most being from the US and UK, etc.

So the low rate of applications has further slowed down, falling by nearly a quarter in the last weeks from the already very low earlier numbers.  In The Nation it was stated that until 20 Oct 2022 there were 1 044 applications, implying 20.9 applications per day (https://www.nationmultimedia.com/thailand/40021449).  Now in the new article by the Thai Examiner (https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2022/11/07/land-for-foreign-high-flyers-plan-to-be-axed/) it is stated that 1 300 applications were made until about 05 Nov 2022, implying that in the period from 20 Oct to 05 Nov only approximately 16.0 applications per day were made, i.e. a further fall of 23% from an already very low starting figure.

[mrmagyar]

7 minutes ago, K2938 said:

So the low rate of applications has further slowed down, falling by nearly a quarter in the last weeks from the already very low earlier numbers.  In The Nation it was stated that until 20 Oct 2022 there were 1 044 applications, implying 20.9 applications per day (https://www.nationmultimedia.com/thailand/40021449).  Now in the new article by the Thai Examiner (https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2022/11/07/land-for-foreign-high-flyers-plan-to-be-axed/) it is stated that 1 300 applications were made until about 05 Nov 2022, implying that in the period from 20 Oct to 05 Nov only approximately 16.0 applications per day were made, i.e. a further fall of 23% from an already very low starting figure.

If you factor out those that were already in Thailand on a retirement visa I suspect you could probably half those numbers too.

[K2938]

22 minutes ago, K2938 said:

So the low rate of applications has further slowed down, falling by nearly a quarter in the last weeks from the already very low earlier numbers.  In The Nation it was stated that until 20 Oct 2022 there were 1 044 applications, implying 20.9 applications per day (https://www.nationmultimedia.com/thailand/40021449).  Now in the new article by the Thai Examiner (https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2022/11/07/land-for-foreign-high-flyers-plan-to-be-axed/) it is stated that 1 300 applications were made until about 05 Nov 2022, implying that in the period from 20 Oct to 05 Nov only approximately 16.0 applications per day were made, i.e. a further fall of 23% from an already very low starting figure.

... which at the current application run rate even with the heroic assumption of a 100% approval rate would imply that it would only take a good 170 years to reach the 1 million visa issues the government is aiming for within five years ????

Edited November 9, 2022 by K2938

[K2938]

8 hours ago, Pib said:

The BOI rep took my application number, put me on hold for about 2 minutes, and when coming back online said the application had not been looked at yet.....and how I will be notified via online notification and email of any issues, additional docs needed, etc.   I then asked if the BOI is still processing application within 20 business days and the rep said yes.  A nice, honest, and professional conversation, but it sounds like my application is still in their "inbox" so to speak.

Still see it as a positive.  Given the very poor application numbers, the BOI will come under increasing pressure to be more lenient.  First maybe where things are grey and could be interpreted as either white or black and then maybe also on more fundamental issues.  So really the best advice for anybody who has not applied yet and is not in a desperate rush would probably be to just wait a few more months with the application until the full impact of the poor application numbers has set in on the BOI.

Edited November 9, 2022 by K2938

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Still see it as a positive.  Given the very poor application numbers, the BOI will come under increasing pressure to be more lenient.  First maybe where things are grey and could be interpreted as either white or black and then maybe also on more fundamental issues.  So really the best advice for anybody who has not applied yet and is not in a desperate rush would probably be to just wait a few more months with the application until the full impact of the poor application numbers has set in on the BOI.

It think they are just slow.   Heck, even with the low numbers applying since the LTR 1 Sep kickoff it seems it still takes around a month for most approved applicants to get that initial approval notice.  

 

If this program had had large number of folks applying (which it hasn't) it seems the BOI would have been overwhelmed and possibly taken months to provide an initial approval.  

[Pib]

 

On 10/15/2022 at 12:21 AM, pepper402 said:

Sounds like you have close to $8 Million in your account (based on the S&P dividend yield).  Nice!  I applied for the Wealthy Pensioner and submitted income statements from some employers.  The analyst at BOI seemed to indicate that he was looking for pension income and not work income.  Presumably you will be able to use dividend income if you are applying for the Wealthy Global Citizen.  Good luck! 

 

7 hours ago, pepper402 said:

Frustrating...   I submitted a new LTR application with exactly the same documents and information as my previous application which was approved except for a new passport.   I just received this:   Dear LTR Applicant, Your application is on process. In this regard, we would like to request additional information/documents as follows: 1. Please show official certificate of pension fund from your government.   What is an "official certificate of pension fund"?  I previously submitted a letter from my pension administrator which was accepted.  I don't have a government pension.   I have a feeling if I stamped my letter with "Official Certificate" that it would be accepted.

When submitting for Wealthy Pensioner application which was approved did you use employer income statements (like your 1st post above indicates) or did you provide retiree pension statements (like you 2nd post above indicates)?    And if it was work income did that comprise the majority of your income versus pension/fixed income being the majority?

 

If it was employer income statements maybe on this 2nd application to correct the passport issue maybe they just noticed a pension income statement(s) should have been submitted on the 1st application/should have comprised the a large part of total income.

 

[K2938]

59 minutes ago, Pib said:

If it was employer income statements maybe on this 2nd application to correct the passport issue maybe they just noticed a pension income statement(s) should have been submitted on the 1st application/should have comprised the a large part of total income.

It would be very silly from the BOI if they did this and are after "rich" people.  Most of the truly rich people are those who made their money either from founding and then selling a successful business or inherited their wealth.  Neither of those are likely to receive a pension which is what salaried people get

[pepper402]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

 

When submitting for Wealthy Pensioner application which was approved did you use employer income statements (like your 1st post above indicates) or did you provide retiree pension statements (like you 2nd post above indicates)?    And if it was work income did that comprise the majority of your income versus pension/fixed income being the majority?

 

If it was employer income statements maybe on this 2nd application to correct the passport issue maybe they just noticed a pension income statement(s) should have been submitted on the 1st application/should have comprised the a large part of total income.

 

Sorry, I didn't say this very clearly...   My former employer is giving me a retiree pension that on a gross basis just meets the $80 requirement.  I submitted a letter from them attesting to my pension income which meets the BOI requirements.   And I submitted a copy of a payment stub from the bank that makes my pension payments as further proof of my retiree pension.  I'm goin to resubmit the same documents and thank them for bringing this to my attention - not sure what else I can do.  I don't currently live in Thailand so I believe I am the ideal candidate for this new program but if they make it too difficult/unreasonable - I'm not going to pursue this.  

[khunjeff]

10 hours ago, K2938 said:

It would be very silly from the BOI if they did this and are after "rich" people.  Most of the truly rich people are those who made their money either from founding and then selling a successful business or inherited their wealth.  Neither of those are likely to receive a pension which is what salaried people get

That's true, and in actuality they seem to be realizing that, sort of.

 

From the beginning they kept talking only about "pension income over 80k", but the BoI person who was interviewed in Chris Parker's YouTube video stated that any kind of income is ok, except wages and tips (i.e., employment income). On the application website, there is a space for retirement income, and then another for "fixed income", which - from the examples provided - really seems to mean something more like "passive income".

 

There have clearly been some misunderstandings regarding foreign retirees, such as the idea that all of them rely on pensions for the bulk of their income, and that they all have individual short term health insurance policies (the reality being that many, especially from the US and from international organizations, have long term group insurance through their former employers). Unlike many Thai bureaucracies, though, the BoI does seem to be learning and adjusting as they go. Let's hope that continues. 

[ThailandRyan]

12 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

That's true, and in actuality they seem to be realizing that, sort of.

 

From the beginning they kept talking only about "pension income over 80k", but the BoI person who was interviewed in Chris Parker's YouTube video stated that any kind of income is ok, except wages and tips (i.e., employment income). On the application website, there is a space for retirement income, and then another for "fixed income", which - from the examples provided - really seems to mean something more like "passive income".

 

There have clearly been some misunderstandings regarding foreign retirees, such as the idea that all of them rely on pensions for the bulk of their income, and that they all have individual short term health insurance policies (the reality being that many, especially from the US and from international organizations, have long term group insurance through their former employers). Unlike many Thai bureaucracies, though, the BoI does seem to be learning and adjusting as they go. Let's hope that continues. 

It is a huge learning curve for them.  Many retirees that I know have a pension or SS and the remainder is in a 401k/457 or an annuity that they get a yearly sum from, which totals over 80k.  A few I know live off of annuities and passive income as they will not start receiving their pensions until they are 62 to 65.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, khunjeff said:

That's true, and in actuality they seem to be realizing that, sort of.

 

From the beginning they kept talking only about "pension income over 80k", but the BoI person who was interviewed in Chris Parker's YouTube video stated that any kind of income is ok, except wages and tips (i.e., employment income). On the application website, there is a space for retirement income, and then another for "fixed income", which - from the examples provided - really seems to mean something more like "passive income".

 

There have clearly been some misunderstandings regarding foreign retirees, such as the idea that all of them rely on pensions for the bulk of their income, and that they all have individual short term health insurance policies (the reality being that many, especially from the US and from international organizations, have long term group insurance through their former employers). Unlike many Thai bureaucracies, though, the BoI does seem to be learning and adjusting as they go. Let's hope that continues. 

In your last sentence you say, "....the BoI does seem to be learning and adjusting as they go along."   

 

My question to you is what tangible actions, proof, etc., do you base that on?  Or is a just a gut feeling based on a lot of different things.  

 

I definitely agree the BOI is learning new things as they go along....evaluates more applications and are exposed to the many different sources of income.  But I'm not at all convinced they are doing any significant "adjusting"....that is, straying from the published guidelines as to the LTR income requirements.   I just don't think they have the power or are willing to do that since the requirements were blessed by the cabinet. 

 

I'm not trying to be augmentative here...it's just the nature of the Thai bureaucracy has always been very slow to change until blessed/directed by the top level of govt....and the top level of govt is a slow moving beast.

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Pib

[Pib]

11 hours ago, pepper402 said:

Sorry, I didn't say this very clearly...   My former employer is giving me a retiree pension that on a gross basis just meets the $80 requirement.  I submitted a letter from them attesting to my pension income which meets the BOI requirements.   And I submitted a copy of a payment stub from the bank that makes my pension payments as further proof of my retiree pension.  I'm goin to resubmit the same documents and thank them for bringing this to my attention - not sure what else I can do.  I don't currently live in Thailand so I believe I am the ideal candidate for this new program but if they make it too difficult/unreasonable - I'm not going to pursue this.  

Yea...that clears it up. 

 

And where the BOI requested an official certificate of pension fund from your government the BOI staffer probably just had "government" on the brain....probably have just finished referring several applications which included govt pension verification letters from some govt organization like the U.S. Social Security Agency or just most any govt agency that many times provides some type of "benefit verification letter" along with monthly annuity/pension statements.

 

Hopefully, you providing the same letter from the civilian pension administrator as you did before will make them happy "again" since it made them happy on the 1st application.

 

[Boomer6969]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 I just don't think they have the power or are willing to do that since the requirements were blessed by the cabinet. 

They don't have the power to adjust the substance of the requirements, but they show flexibility in the form, origin, etc. of the documentation they accept as proof.

[Zuman]

Another data point. I submitted my wealthy pensioner application on October 4. As of today (November 10) it still shows as pending. I just got off the phone with BOI. They said they would look at it today or tomorrow and let me know what additional paperwork is needed.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Zuman
Bad verbiage.

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, Zuman said:

Another data point. I submitted my wealthy pensioner application on October 4. As of today (November 10) it still shows as pending. I just got off the phone with BOI. They said they would look at it today or tomorrow and let me know what additional paperwork is needed.

The BOI has definitely got a lot slower in processing applications compared to those who submitted in early Sep.  Mine was submitted 12 business days ago (excluding weekends and holidays), it still shows Pending, and per phone call to BOI the other day they haven't got around to looking at it yet. 

[Pib]

Below snapshot from the BOI LTR website.  Don't count 16-18 Nov as business days as part of the optimistic 20 business day LTR application processing time.   16-18/Wed-Fri Nov is a special holiday period in the Bangkok area due to the APEC Summit.

[Misty]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

The BOI has definitely got a lot slower in processing applications compared to those who submitted in early Sep.  Mine was submitted 12 business days ago (excluding weekends and holidays), it still shows Pending, and per phone call to BOI the other day they haven't got around to looking at it yet. 

Thank you for the updates. In the call, did BoI staff mention why they hadn’t looked at your application yet? If they’ve been flooded with applications that would be one thing. But recent reports make it sound like applications have slowed down. Wonder what’s going on.

 

I’m still waiting for my digital work permit. Initially It was supposed to be available immediately. Then BoI said at the end of Oct. Now I’m hearing maybe in one or two months. Not at all clear what’s happening with work permits, or if any at all have issued.

[Pib]

1 minute ago, Misty said:

Thank you for the updates. In the call, did BoI staff mention why they hadn’t looked at your application yet? If they’ve been flooded with applications that would be one thing. But recent reports make it sound like applications have slowed down. Wonder what’s going on.

 

I’m still waiting for my digital work permit. Initially It was supposed to be available immediately. Then BoI said at the end of Oct. Now I’m hearing maybe in one or two months. Not at all clear what’s happening with work permits, or if any at all have issued.

The BOI rep didn't give any indication why my application hadn't been looked at yet and I didn't ask since I hadn't reached the 20 business day point yet.  If I had been at the 20 business/working day point I would have asked with a lead-in statement that they advertise 20 working days on the LTR website.

 

 

But note that although their website says 20 working days "after having received complete docs" which could be taken to mean even if they need to ask for even one additional doc the 20 working days is reset to 0....now wait another 20 working days to see if they are now satisfied.

 

But when looking at the bottom of the "paper-based" application they say "30, vs 20, working days.

 

I doubt the BOI has been flooded with applications since recent reports indicates they have only received 1,300 applications from the 1 Sep kickoff thru 31 Oct.   Maybe the staff initially assigned to process applications was recently reduced due to the lukewarm response and people who applied in Sep enjoyed a larger BOI staff to process applications.  Maybe the upcoming APEC Summit next week has sapped BOI manpower for normal tasks as I expect the BOI would be deeply involved in meeting/sucking-up to staff from the attending countries in advertising Thailand business/investment opportunities.   

 

All kinds of possible maybes....I'm just guessing as some of the possible reasons for the apparent slowdown in processing applications.  

 

 

[K2938]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

 

 

Interesting in the quote that their key mental focus seems to be on people already having an immigration stamp, i.e. people already in Thailand.  For this to benefit Thailand, the attraction of NEW people to Thailand should really be top of the list instead of people just switching from one visa to the other

[K2938]

6 hours ago, Zuman said:

Another data point. I submitted my wealthy pensioner application on October 4. As of today (November 10) it still shows as pending. I just got off the phone with BOI. They said they would look at it today or tomorrow and let me know what additional paperwork is needed.

Did you get the impression the BOI had not looked at your application at all yet or just that they had not finished their work yet and now are accelerating that following your phone call? 

[Zuman]

My impression was they had not not yet started on my application.

[Pib]

20 hours ago, Misty said:

Thank you for the updates. In the call, did BoI staff mention why they hadn’t looked at your application yet? If they’ve been flooded with applications that would be one thing. But recent reports make it sound like applications have slowed down. Wonder what’s going on.

 

I’m still waiting for my digital work permit. Initially It was supposed to be available immediately. Then BoI said at the end of Oct. Now I’m hearing maybe in one or two months. Not at all clear what’s happening with work permits, or if any at all have issued.

Misty,

I called the BOI again today to check on my application's status....it still hasn't been looked at....they say they have a lot of applications.

 

I remembered you had asked above about digital work permits so I also asked about the status of digital work permits and the rep said, Yes, there is still a delay in issuing the permits due to IT system problems/glitches....didn't know when the problem would be rectified. 

 

The call today was straight forth....the rep's answers seemed honest.   But for whatever reasons it sure seems the processing of applications has slowed down a lot since the LTR 1 Sep kickoff.   And next week with the BOI and other govt organizations in the Bangkok area being closed 16-18 Nov (Wed-Fri) due to the special holidays declared for the Bangkok area in support of the APEC Summit that only leaves 14-15 Nov (Mon & Tue) for application processing, digital work permit processing, etc....I don't expect much to get done next week.

 

P.S.  Did a significant other, spouse, dependent, etc., of yours also get a LTR approval?  I seem to remember you mentioned/implied that in one of your posts.

 

 

[Zuman]

I posted yesterday that I called BOI regarding my wealthy pensioner application that has been pending since October 4.
 

Today I received an email requesting additional information, specifically a 1099-R form for 2021. I found this to be a strange request as my pension and IRA distributions are listed on my 2021 1040 tax return which they already have. I sent the 1099-R form for IRA distributions as that met the $80k requirement. I was also going to send 1099-R for the pension I receive, but the system would only accept one form. 

[ThailandRyan]

12 hours ago, Zuman said:

I posted yesterday that I called BOI regarding my wealthy pensioner application that has been pending since October 4.
 

Today I received an email requesting additional information, specifically a 1099-R form for 2021. I found this to be a strange request as my pension and IRA distributions are listed on my 2021 1040 tax return which they already have. I sent the 1099-R form for IRA distributions as that met the $80k requirement. I was also going to send 1099-R for the pension I receive, but the system would only accept one form. 

You can add it in the very bottom in Other.

[K2938]

41 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You can add it in the very bottom in Other.

... or just put both documents in one pdf file

[Misty]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

Misty,

I called the BOI again today to check on my application's status....it still hasn't been looked at....they say they have a lot of applications.

 

I remembered you had asked above about digital work permits so I also asked about the status of digital work permits and the rep said, Yes, there is still a delay in issuing the permits due to IT system problems/glitches....didn't know when the problem would be rectified. 

 

The call today was straight forth....the rep's answers seemed honest.   But for whatever reasons it sure seems the processing of applications has slowed down a lot since the LTR 1 Sep kickoff.   And next week with the BOI and other govt organizations in the Bangkok area being closed 16-18 Nov (Wed-Fri) due to the special holidays declared for the Bangkok area in support of the APEC Summit that only leaves 14-15 Nov (Mon & Tue) for application processing, digital work permit processing, etc....I don't expect much to get done next week.

 

P.S.  Did a significant other, spouse, dependent, etc., of yours also get a LTR approval?  I seem to remember you mentioned/implied that in one of your posts.

 

 

Pib, thanks so much for asking about the digital work permit. That confirms what I'd been hearing. I'll also try to call in the next week or so and see if they have any updates as to time frames for issuing the digital work permits.  They've been saying not to worry that just having the LTR visa is enough to work, so maybe they're not putting much resources behind getting the system to work in this case.

 

To answer your question, yes, we applied for and received two LTR visas - one main one and one for family member.  It was pretty straightforward and they were both granted at the same time, LTR e-visas also issued very quickly and at the same time.

[Misty]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:08 AM, aublumberg said:

So this morning I arrived in Bangkok for the first time after receiving my LTR-T visa sticker at the Royal Thai Consulate in Hong Kong. Used the Fast Track channel, LTR is not specifically written on the signage but Smart Visa is. This is the same channel used by Air Crew and what I normally also use with the APEC card. No material difference in queueing time as it was fairly quiet today, but can be helpful if it’s busy.

 

The very charming immigration officer Khun Annie had never seen a LTR visa and had to ring her colleague on the phone first to clarify but then swiftly figured out the five year entry duration. Her supervisor walked by and she double confirmed with him again. She was quite curious and asked how long it took to get the visa. Most pleasant conversation. 

Another update: arrived at Suvarnabhumi airport yesterday and went through the Fast track channel. Gave the IO a print-out of my LTR e-visa.    As with aublumberg's report above, the IO hadn't seen this type of visa below and called for a supervisor to come take a look.  After a little bit of consultation, the IO put a stamp in my passport - admitted "11 Nov 2022" until "9/11/2027."  Hand wrote in "LTR- " and "E-visa" and my flight number. All pretty straightforward. IO said "you can stay for 5 years" as I collected my passport and looked at the stamp. 

 

I'm planning a trip flying out of Don Muang over the holidays.  Will report back what happens upon exiting Thailand at DM.

 

Just a side note - my flight was fully booked and airport was extremely busy, much more busy than I've seen it since pandemic.  Not sure if this is related to APEC, or was just a normal Friday as tourist travel picks up.

[aublumberg]

Does anyone have an answer or consulted legal advice on this topic of 90 day reporting requirement? Of course we have all read it in the BOI brochures but where is it anchored in the law? I wasn’t able to find anything in the LTR website regulatory section.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

47 minutes ago, aublumberg said:

Does anyone have an answer or consulted legal advice on this topic of 90 day reporting requirement? Of course we have all read it in the BOI brochures but where is it anchored in the law? I wasn’t able to find anything in the LTR website regulatory section.

 

 

Only once a year reporting is necessary if you stay in the country for the full year. If you leave near the end of the year and then return your 1 year clock starts anew. I posted the piece of paper they stapled in my passport when I was stamped into the country for my 5 year period. This was verified by the LTR BOI folks as well. The immigration section it is listed under is listed as B.E. 2523 section 76

[aublumberg]

44 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Only once a year reporting is necessary if you stay in the country for the full year. If you leave near the end of the year and then return your 1 year clock starts anew. I posted the piece of paper they stapled in my passport when I was stamped into the country for my 5 year period. This was verified by the LTR BOI folks as well. The immigration section it is listed under is listed as B.E. 2523 section 76

Thank you @ThailandRyan. Yes if you travel in and out then it resets every time, even for 90 day reporting.

 

Section 76 only talks about the penalty mechanism: “Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for each day which passes until the law is complied with.”

 

Section 37 lists the actual requirements for reporting: “Section 37: An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following:  […]
5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the competent official at the Immigration Division, in writing, concerning his place of stay, as soon as possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is
an Immigration Office, the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.”

 

Of course I am not disputing the stapled notice in your passport nor the BOI material. I’m just after the legal details that provide the foundation of the LTR reporting rules.