Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[gamb00ler]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:16 AM, LarrySR said:

Waterboard him.

Maybe he will tell the truth for once.

... and get Hillary to do it!

[placeholder]

It's funny. Trumpistas are talking about how this is going to help them in the midterms. At the same time they're warning of violent acts due to the FBI search. The FBI is receiving a record number of threats directed at its agents and particularly against Garland.. Breitbart actually released the names of the 2 FBI agents who had to sign off on the warrant. How do they think most Americans are going to react if their prophecies of violence prove to be a reality?

 

Also, the Freedom Caucus, reps in Congress who are fanatical supporters of Trump,  scheduled a press conference for Friday morning. After the text of the warrant was released and info about what had been removed from Mar y Lago became public, the canceled said conference. They cited "scheduling conflicts." That sounds believable.

[NanLaew]

16 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

You folks just don't get it that there are people in this world who actually are after the real truth.  Whether it goes against Trump or not.  Some here believe anything.  Anything at all as long as it confirms their Orange Man Bad bias.  And if one doesn't agree and doesn't hop on the already overcrowded band wagon then that must mean we're all loony conspiracy theory nuts or Trump sycophants.  Much of the world vehemently rejects your false pronunciations.

Riddle me this, Lacessit.  Why did Newsweek come out with an article quoting two anonymous high level DOJ sources who said they were cleared to state that the DOJ had no knowledge of the raid.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/newsweek-blasted-incorrectly-claiming-merrick-garland-didnt-know-about-fbis-trump-raid

And Garland doesn't immediately issue a denial.  And it took him how long to finally make a public statement?  But not answer any questions?  Nothing to see here, right?

But do give some educated thought to your idea that anyone who sticks up for what they believe is right is automatically a Trump sycophant.  Is that the scientific method you've been taught?

Talking about seeking "the real truth" while quoting Fox news.

 

YCMTSU

 

Here's the offer, I won't quote CNN if you don't quote Fox News.

 

Deal?

[owl sees all]

26 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Nothing to do with the Dems. Why court controversy while they are celebrating their big win.

 

DeSantis approval rating in Florida on top but nationwide Trump still much ahead. That’s the GOP dilemma going into the mid term. 

It seems to me that everything depends upon ratings. They are 'king'.

 

Praise here, discredit there. Nancy went to Taiwan for that very reason.

 

What happened to the Epstein vids? A lot of levering going on.

[Thailand]

And worse!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/13/us/politics/trump-classified-material-fbi.html

[Tropposurfer]

Its interesting to read the comments herein on this latest Trumpian debacle.

 

Watching the utube and facebook feeds from across the news (world and US) both mainstream and podcast/online is also horrifying and fascinating at the same time.

The responses from the right has/is generally speaking horrific, with some infrequent exceptions e.g. Mr Doocy on Fox and Friends calling out a seditionist big-liar senator (excuse me I forgot his name).

From the left (or perhaps more 'centralist' is a less propagandist and realistic nomenclature) has mostly been less hysterical and for the majority of feeds based in fact and legal truth.

I have seen some sensationalist and over-reach by some 'so-called' leftist fake media' (MAGA label) reporters but by-and-large there seems to have been little cult-like process in the mainstream.

 

If one were to NOT listen to the plethora of actual security, highest level ex-government agency bosses, constitutional and security legal senior (many lifelong Republicans serving multiple Republican Presidents) experts interviewed who have ACTUALLY held positions dealing with and completely cognisant with these very types of docs, the specific rigid defined procedures in their handing etc, and the laws pertaining to same, but only listen to extremely compromised people such as McCarthy, and the rest of the usual group of politician sycophant suspects buoyed who are complicit with the constant loudspeaker drone of Fox and other anarchy propagandist outlets. Then it is understandable and predictable how many gorge themselves on such poison and dwell in delusion, thus moving inexorably towards the edges of their own sanity.

 

Thankfully as one legal commentator put it succinctly ; 'Trump is playing checkers and Garland is playing Master level chess'.

The downfall of those like Trump is always self-constructed so to those who say its 'the others' who are bringing him down like the rest of their delusional view of him; you are not seeing reality and simply deluded.

 

For those not utterly lost in the mass insanity echo-chamber of what-is-the-now seditionist, completely compromised, democracy threatening Republican right the obscenity that is this now that Party, excuse me 'cult' is starkly, plainly seen for being thus. 

 

In am in agreement with some of those Masters of American history, politics, sociology, and law i.e. The United States is facing, and approaching, in present time, the precipice of survival or dissolution either by open civil war or such polarised bitter institutionalised sabotage and obstructionism as to crumble brick by brick through this less violent yet imminent and eminently right-wing, hoped for and worked towards alternative demise.

 

Trump is without doubt a severely disturbed man and due to his obvious ultra-toxic pathology a threat to anyone and anything he has contact with. Anyone.

 

People like McConnell and McCarthy may think they are using Trump to satiate their below stated perversions but they too are not only willing co-creators, but dupes to Trumps destructive pathology.   

This obvious primer to Trumps very being is totally lost on those who are themselves lost 'in' him because they too are in many parts exactly like him.

 

This handing over of the self to another in the case of MAGA and the Republican Party to Trump is predicated on a recognition by these folks in Trump of what is in them i.e. xenophobia, racism, anti-semitism, misogyny, fear of never-enough, greed, lust for power, and insatiable need for more and more, sadism, masochism, rage, neurotic needs around control, and a shopping-list of other neuroses, repressions and suppressions.

 

The speaking of (out aloud now) of the annihilation of those seen as 'the other' is a culture and world destroying regression (Trump has lived his entire life driven by this co-foundational premise).

The sycophancy we witness is not explained away as simple political expediency, it is in the case of many Republican politicians these basest of human perversion in them too.

For MAGA Trump IS their 'vehicle' their 'saviour' from that which is externalised, the figurehead, the 'open valve' if you will to finally project without further subtly or subterfuge the dark anti-humane beliefs. 

The history of fascism in the US is well documented, real, and historical truth. It is NOT a creation of a new-now 'fake-media', not a propaganda lie of the left it is real.

 

This entity, this phenomena was alive, powerful (influenced and helped drive the isolationist posture of the US pre-WWII) is without any shadow of doubt seeing a resurgence today.

Equally sure is that Trump and the neo-Gobbel's, Eichmann's, Himmler's, quasi-fool Hess's, Bormann's, Goerings, Mengele's and Heydrich's are before us today in politics, on national tv and podcasts, smashing their way into Congress, and marching with torches. All are preaching annihilation of 'the other' to tens of millions of cult-lost people.

 

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

16 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

Since you're on the left and I assume you don't touch base with those on the right then justifiably you would have no idea how this blunder by the DOJ and FBI has galvanised those on the right.  I've said it before; I think this is one of the best things that could have happened in a long time.  People are fired up like never before.  Keep waking up that sleeping giant, I say.

You made a claim in your post which I highlighted.  Explain this then:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-fundraising-fbi-raid-b2141864.html

Explain what? This?

 

“Nothing like this has ever happened to a President of the United States before, and it’s important that you know it wasn’t just my home that was violated — it was the home of every patriotic American who I have been fighting for since that iconic moment I came down the Golden Escalators in 2015,”

 

I'll try, but I've just been a little bit sick in my mouth.

[NanLaew]

15 hours ago, BusyB said:

17 hours ago, NanLaew said:

In the grand scheme of classified document hierarchy, the stuff marked "TS/SCI" is actually a Wendy's Triple Burger with Cheese and Bacon served with Large Fries and a Jumbo Coke (to go).

The really sensitive stuff is so sensitive it's not listed. Because even knowledge of it could be dangerous if someone else has a couple of other pieces of the puzzle.

Hey, steady on.

 

The Freemason's aren't THAT bad.

[ballpoint]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Trump was President, not King a distinction that might cause confusion to subjects of a crown.

The story of King Donald, and his amazing ability to turn everything he touches into declassified material.

[mikeymike100]

44 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The case is being built and will be iron clad when he is arrested and then charged. Not guilty as of yet but damning evidence of guilt is being obtained daily. Or do you Trump defenders think it's all politics.....

If the authorities can find enough evidence to charge him with some crime, then the case goes to court, there is a fair trial, the jury decide on guilty or not guilty, then that's all fine. If guilty the Judge decides his fate?

However currently we have the MSM, social media, members on this forum etc deciding his guilt before any of the due process has taken place, which to me seems irrational and disturbing.

Its not a case of defending Trump, but everyone should be the given the chance to due process.

 

[pegman]

1 hour ago, Walker88 said:

It took 5 days for 45's "Brain Trust" (sic) to come up with that ludicrous excuse? That is the best they can do?

 

One would have to have the IQ of a turnip to believe it, though I guess that means around 80% of his cult is on board.

Well actually it was Rudy who came up with it while into his third bottle of red.

[NanLaew]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you ever take your books home from school ?

The books that belong to the school ?

Yes. But never the ones marked "TS/CSI".

 

Why do you ask?

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

If the authorities can find enough evidence to charge him with some crime, then the case goes to court, there is a fair trial, the jury decide on guilty or not guilty, then that's all fine. If guilty the Judge decides his fate?

However currently we have the MSM, social media, members on this forum etc deciding his guilt before any of the due process has taken place, which to me seems irrational and disturbing.

Its not a case of defending Trump, but everyone should be the given the chance to due process.

 

Having worked with classified below the TS/SCI level, I have some grasp of the seriousness of having TS/SCI in a non-secure location.

 

I agree that Trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence.  However the fact that nobody is contesting the fact that Trump took TS/SCI from the White House, did not return it in when other documents were returned, and kept such highly classified documents in a non-secure location is pretty damning.

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Explain what? This?

 

“Nothing like this has ever happened to a President of the United States before, and it’s important that you know it wasn’t just my home that was violated — it was the home of every patriotic American who I have been fighting for since that iconic moment I came down the Golden Escalators in 2015,”

 

I'll try, but I've just been a little bit sick in my mouth.

And in that statement by Trump once more we see Trump's incapacity to acknowledge his defeat. I have some news for Trump:  It is still the case that "nothing like this has happened to a President of the United States." Trump is an ex-President. He's just a private citizen now. Whatever perks ex-Presidents may be entitled to, none of them entitle ex-Presidents to be above the reach of the same law enforcement measures that every other American is subject to.

 

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, 2baht said:

21 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Can't lock up someone who hasn't been charged with anything!

Did'nt the same clown want to lock Hillary up without charge?

No.  That was a Presidential campaign "chant"; he, obviously, was in no position to lock up anyone.   

[Gecko123]

15 hours ago, Jerno said:

He will get a slap on the wrist

If he had swiped silverware from the WH dining room, perhaps. This is different.

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I am hoping against hope he gets charged and convicted. 

Why?

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

When/if it gets to a courtroom, IMO Trump is going to take the Fifth.

But trump has already stated that people who take the 5th must be guilty...........self incrimination no less!

[mikeymike100]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Having worked with classified below the TS/SCI level, I have some grasp of the seriousness of having TS/SCI in a non-secure location.

 

I agree that Trump is entitled to the presumption of innocence.  However the fact that nobody is contesting the fact that Trump took TS/SCI from the White House, did not return it in when other documents were returned, and kept such highly classified documents in a non-secure location is pretty damning.

What you say is fair enough. If that is in fact what happened? If the evidence is so damming then surely the DOJ can charge him? As yet as far as I know he hasn't been charged with anything.

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No.  That was a Presidential campaign "chant"; he, obviously, was in no position to lock up anyone.   

So it's ok for him to say it and sweep up a crowd, but when people on here say the same, in a clear reference to his words, you're calling them out.

Biased much?

[heybruce]

1 minute ago, mikeymike100 said:

What you say is fair enough. If that is in fact what happened? If the evidence is so damming then surely the DOJ can charge him? As yet as far as I know he hasn't been charged with anything.

You're in a hurry to have Trump charged?

 

I don't think Trump is a flight risk.  Considering the nature of this case, I have no problem with the FBI and Justice Department working carefully to build their cases before deciding on charges and arrests.

[Tippaporn]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

When did Hunter Biden become President?

Oh, let's pretend there are no connections to what's on the laptop and Joe Biden. 

[Tropposurfer]

Its interesting to read the comments herein on this latest Trumpian debacle.

 

I write here as a long experienced mental health clinician out of a deep concern for the American people and indeed for the world.

I do not write these words to pass the time or to hear myself I write with the gravest of clinical intent.

 

Watching the utube and facebook feeds from across the news (world and US) both mainstream and podcast/online is also horrifying and fascinating at the same time.

Thankfully as one legal commentator put it succinctly ; 'Trump is playing checkers and Garland is playing Master level chess'.

 

The responses from the right has/is generally speaking horrific, with some infrequent exceptions e.g. Mr Doocy on Fox and Friends calling out a seditionist big-liar senator (excuse me I forgot his name).

From the left (or perhaps more 'centralist' is a less propagandist and realistic nomenclature) has mostly been less hysterical and for the majority of feeds based in fact and legal truth.

I have seen some sensationalist and over-reach by some 'so-called' leftist fake media' (MAGA label) reporters but by-and-large there seems to have been little cult-like process in the mainstream.

 

If one were to NOT listen to the plethora of actual security, highest level ex-government agency bosses, constitutional and security legal senior (many lifelong Republicans serving multiple Republican Presidents) experts interviewed who have ACTUALLY held positions dealing with and completely cognisant with these very types of docs, the specific rigid defined procedures in their handing etc, and the laws pertaining to same, but only listen to extremely compromised people such as McCarthy, and the rest of the usual group of politician sycophant suspects. All buoyed up and complicit with the constant loudspeaker drone of Fox and other anarchy propagandist outlets. Then it is understandable and predictable how many gorge themselves on such poison and dwell in delusion, thus moving inexorably towards the edges of their own sanity.

Lots of people ask the question how come the Fascist right under Trump is so ignorant and narrow and yet so cunning and successful?

The answer is deep yet simple.

 

 

The downfall of those like Trump is always self-constructed so to those who say its 'the others' who are bringing him down like the rest of Republican Party/MAGA delusional view of him; You've lost your capacity to see reality and are simply lost in your own and a mass-delusion that grips MAGA.

 

For those not utterly lost in the mass psychosis (which for some is so intense and all-pervading as to qualify as actual mental illness) the echo-chamber of what-is-the-now seditionist, completely compromised, democracy threatening Republican right, the obscenity that is this now that Party, excuse me 'cult' is starkly, plainly seen. 

 

In am in agreement with some of those Masters of American history, politics, sociology, a hundred ps psychiatrists and law who have spoken i.e. The United States is facing, and approaching, in present time, the precipice of survival or dissolution either by open civil war or such polarised bitter institutionalised sabotage and obstructionism as to crumble brick by brick imminent and eminently prosecuted right-wing hoped for and worked towards alternative demise.

 

Trump is without doubt a severely disturbed man and due to his obvious ultra-toxic pathology a threat to anyone and anything he has contact with ... Anyone except extremely skilled psychiatric carers.

 

People like McConnell and McCarthy may think they are using Trump to satiate their own (below stated) perversions but they too are not only willing co-creators, but dupes to Trumps destructive pathology.   

The obvious toxic primers to Trumps very being is totally lost on those who are themselves lost 'in' him because they too are in many parts exactly like him.

 

This handing over of the self to another in the case of MAGA and the Republican Party to Trump is predicated on a recognition by these folks in Trump of what is in them i.e. xenophobia, racism, anti-semitism, misogyny, fear of never-enough, greed, lust for power, and insatiable need for more and more, sadism, masochism, rage, neurotic needs around control, and a shopping-list of other neuroses, repressions and suppressions.

 

The speaking of (out aloud now) of the annihilation of those seen as 'the other' is a culture and world destroying regression (Trump has lived his entire life driven by this co-foundational premise).

The sycophancy we witness is not explained away as simple political expediency, it is in the case of many Republican politicians these same basest of human perversion in them.

For MAGA Trump IS their 'vehicle' their 'saviour' from that which is externalised, the figurehead, the 'open valve' if you will to finally project without further subtly or subterfuge dark anti-humane beliefs. 

The history of fascism in the US is well documented, real, and historical truth. It is NOT a creation of a 'new-now fake-media', not a propaganda lie of the left it is real.

 

This entity, this phenomena was alive, powerful (influenced and helped drive the isolationist posture of the US pre-WWII) is without any shadow of doubt seeing a resurgence today.

Equally sure is that Trump and the neo-Gobbel's, Eichmann's, Himmler's, quasi-fool Hess's, Bormann's, Goerings, Mengele's and Heydrich's are before us today in politics, on national tv and podcasts, smashing their way into Congress, and marching with torches. All are preaching annihilation of 'the other' to tens of millions of cult-lost people.

 

If you are one who believes Trump to be a good person, to have spoken truthfully, to be a victim, to be the 'saviour' for the US people then I implore you to seek clinical help immediately.

[ThailandRyan]

29 minutes ago, mikeymike100 said:

If the authorities can find enough evidence to charge him with some crime, then the case goes to court, there is a fair trial, the jury decide on guilty or not guilty, then that's all fine. If guilty the Judge decides his fate?

However currently we have the MSM, social media, members on this forum etc deciding his guilt before any of the due process has taken place, which to me seems irrational and disturbing.

Its not a case of defending Trump, but everyone should be the given the chance to due process.

 

Of which the Donald, aka Former President and now citizen Trump is being given, due process.  The warrant was served legally, the evidence obtained, and now the case continues onward as they decide what he will or will not be charged with, and when he will be charged.  When the time comes and if they charge him for said treason, obstruction etc...he will be given a chance to turn himself in for processing, or if he fails to do so a warrant will be issued for his arrest.  Hopefully when the time comes he will turn himself in instead of continuing to play games which are at this time dividing more and more people.  Due process takes time and even people like Trump who have shouted from the halls "Lock her up" or "if they have nothing to hide why take the 5th" is himself a walking oxymoron.

[Liverpool Lou]

21 hours ago, placeholder said:

"Of the 30,000 emails that the FBI examined, eight were found to contain Top Secret information. Seven of them were about CIA drone strikes, which had been reported in the newspapers (but were still technically classified). The other one was an account of a telephone conversation with the president of Malawi."

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/what-is-in-trump-mar-a-lago-documents.html

"Of the 30,000 emails that the FBI examined..."

In addition to those emails, the other 31,830 that she deemed "personal" that she deleted so they could not be examined by the authorities should not be forgotten.

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

But trump has already stated that people who take the 5th must be guilty...........self incrimination no less!

Yes, and he also crafted the security law which was designed to nail Hillary, and is now in play against him. In soccer, it's called an own goal. One is careless, two is the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

[mikeymike100]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You're in a hurry to have Trump charged?

 

I don't think Trump is a flight risk.  Considering the nature of this case, I have no problem with the FBI and Justice Department working carefully to build their cases before deciding on charges and arrests.

I am not in a hurry to have Trump charged at all, although I suspect some are?

I am in agreement with you that the FBI and DOJ need to tread carefully

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

When did Hunter Biden become President?

 

Also, what about this presumption of innocence stuff we keep hearing about?  Do you know what is on that laptop and what laws were broken?

Since you've edited your post since I quoted it . . .

"Is everyone who might run for President exempt from criminal investigations, or only Trump?"

Criminal investigations, not presumptions of guilt was what you stated.  Don't conveniently change the subject.

[xylophone]

57 minutes ago, Tropposurfer said:

This handing over of the self to another in the case of MAGA and the Republican Party to Trump is predicated on a recognition by these folks in Trump of what is in them i.e. xenophobia, racism, anti-semitism, misogyny, fear of never-enough, greed, lust for power, and insatiable need for more and more, sadism, masochism, rage, neurotic needs around control, and a shopping-list of other neuroses, repressions and suppressions.

Well said and IMO so true.

[Liverpool Lou]

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

21 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No.  That was a Presidential campaign "chant"; he, obviously, was in no position to lock up anyone.   

So it's ok for him to say it and sweep up a crowd, but when people on here say the same, in a clear reference to his words, you're calling them out.

Biased much?

No, I'm not "calling them out", I'm just pointing out that he has not been charged with anything.   

 

"Biased much?"

Hypocritical "much"?   By "biased" I suppose you mean that I have an opinion that may not match yours, yes?  I'm an individual and I do not have to be "unbiased", just as you, clearly, are not.  Perhaps you're doing a "Thaivisa" and  suggesting that I shouldn't be biased but it's ok for you to be?