In a landmark ruling, a judge has ordered former President Donald Trump and his companies to pay nearly $355 million in a civil fraud trial. The decision has garnered significant attention, with New York Governor Kathy Hochul emphasizing that nobody, not even a former president, is above the law.

 

Governor Hochul, speaking at a news conference, commended Attorney General Letitia James for her success in the case, stating that it sends a strong message that fraudulent business practices will not be tolerated in the state of New York. She underscored the principle that the rule of law applies to everyone, regardless of their status or position.

 

Attorney General Letitia James, addressing reporters, emphasized the staggering scale of Trump's fraud and his belief that he is exempt from accountability. She highlighted the importance of holding Trump responsible for his actions, stating that there cannot be different rules for different people, including former presidents.

 

Contrary to Trump's legal team's argument that there were no victims of his fraud, James asserted that white-collar financial fraud is not victimless, emphasizing that hardworking Americans who abide by the rules are adversely affected by such crimes. She accused Trump of falsely inflating his net worth by billions of dollars, asserting that he had "perfected the art of the steal."

 

The presiding judge, Justice Engoron, expressed strong condemnation of Trump's fraudulent activities, stating that the frauds uncovered in the case were egregious and shocking. He rejected the notion that discrepancies in financial documents could be deemed immaterial, emphasizing the significant impact of such deviations from the truth, which represent hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

Overall, the ruling marks a significant victory for justice and accountability, demonstrating that no individual, regardless of their wealth, power, or political connections, is immune from the consequences of fraudulent behavior.

 

17.02.24

Source

 

When you're a judge, you can grab 'em by the wallet. They let you do it.

is that a Dem voting Judge by any chance?

 

Trump civil fraud case: Judge fines Trump $354 million, says frauds 'shock the conscience' - ABC News (go.com)

 

 

Trump is finally reaping what he has sown over the years he must be exhausted from all the winning 355 million on this one then 88 million for assaulting Jean Carrol I forgot how much he had to pay in his scam charity then there was his university scam that one ran about 20 million he’s approaching a half a billion dollars in fines now!and his criminal cases haven’t been tried yet yup he must be exhausted from all the winning!

1 hour ago, Prubangboy said:

When you're a judge, you can grab 'em by the wallet. They let you do it.

True. If someone breaks the law it's not unusual to get hit with financial penalties. Especially here as it's just a civil case, not criminal.

 

He's been proven guilty by a grand jury. Trump and his cronies aren't above the law.

With that ruling, we can now officially called Trump a fraudster and a con artist. 

 

31 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

What are Trump's grounds for an appeal?

The big problem for Trump is even if he has grounds for appeal, he needs to put up the full amount of the 385 million, either in cash or bond. And no bank that does business in NY can give him the money. 

So he overvalues his assets so he can leverage loans, then he under-values so he'll pay less in taxes.  Now when his wealth is being assessed they appear to be looking at the larger numbers, determining the cost of the penalty in relation to his net worth.  He (and his clan) are the victims of their own lies.

 

 

 

In the bigger picture I wonder if this begins to eat away at Trump's reputation even amongst his fans - he always seemed to have an allure amongst his base of somehow playing 3 dimensional chess and never having consequences until recently. 

 

Second is the moral argument. Is the the fact that charges had been laid on a fairly common occurrence, without actual victims, and the huge size of the penalty an indication of unreasonable bias. Could it tar all cases against him to the public as being motivated by bias. If it is based on some bias, is it bad to fight fire with fire,  if your opponent uses every dirty trick of legal and other manipulation,  to avoid consequences. Or are the charges and penalty fair and it is more his high profile that makes it noteworthy. 

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

is that a Dem voting Judge by any chance?

Aaaah, a Trump supporter, supporting a loser, an embarrassment to the USA.....😬

He loses at everything and he smells like poo. 

 

The only possible explanation for the TrumpTrash I see here:

 

Scat play is a much bigger fetish than previously imagined.

28 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

With that ruling, we can now officially called Trump a fraudster and a con artist. 

 

Absolutely................

It's $463.9 million including interest...so far. Each day he fails to either pay or post (if he appeals), additional interest accumulates. Interest is also accumulating in the $83.3 million judgement in the 2nd Carroll defamation trial.

 

If the 3 month TBill rate is used to determine interest, trump adds ~$78,250 more -per day to what he owes in the two judgements, or another $28 million if appeals drag out a year.

 

 

This lawfare is destroying the legitimacy of the US legal system, a heavy price to pay for some petty, or maybe not so petty, political advantage. I mean, you sort of expect it in a country like Pakistan, with all their Imran Khan shenanigans, but the US?

41 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

With that ruling, we can now officially called Trump a fraudster and a con artist. 

 

Yup. But most of us have known that for years if not decades.

 

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/how-donald-trump-destroyed-his-empire-and-dumped-ruins-others-timeline/

 

How Trump Went Bust and Got Rich Using Other People’s Money: A Timeline

 

He took on unsustainable debts, dumped them on others, and borrowed lots of family money along the way.

2 minutes ago, nausea said:

This lawfare is destroying the legitimacy of the US legal system, a heavy price to pay for some petty, or maybe not so petty, political advantage. I mean, you sort of expect it in a country like Pakistan, with all their Imran Khan shenanigans, but the US?

It's not political at all. It's called the law and nobody's above it.

 

In fact, this proves how good the legal system is...more to follow.

5 minutes ago, nausea said:

This lawfare is destroying the legitimacy of the US legal system

If something untoward happened in the trial, you can easily point that out right now, right?

 

Or are you just completely out of gas after yelling Lawfare and now reduced to just whining like an impotent cuck?

1 hour ago, Prubangboy said:

I love your fantasy world where you get to pick the judge. Or demand a recount if you don't like the decision.

 

Let's pretend you're not another gullible, low information chump:

 

What are Trump's grounds for an appeal?

of course you cant pick i never said you could, but i doubt very much there isn't political bias to be found in all the things thrown at him...... it's funny how he was celeb for over 4 decades nobody said anything.... 

oh look......

 

3 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

 i doubt very much there isn't political bias to be found in all the things thrown at him......

Sadly, sympathetic, very vague and conveniently unspecific "doubters" like you are virtually worthless.

 

He needs FACTS. Whenever he goes to court, he loses badly on FACTS. 

 

When I ask what facts favor him, TrumpTrash just runs away.

1 minute ago, Prubangboy said:

Sadly, sympathetic, very vague and conveniently unspecific "doubters" like you are virtually worthless.

 

He needs FACTS. Whenever he goes to court, he loses badly on FACTS. 

 

When I ask what facts favor him, TrumpTrash just runs away.

Yeah  ... but .. I would put the cases against him in 2 categories as many do. January 6, Georgia election stuff, I would include the Mar a Lago documents too because of the way he went about it. Serious. No doubt appears a strong case that had to be a thing based on objective law.

This one, the upcoming one on hush payments, I would put as a real thing, consistent with law,  but definitely an issue if the same charges - and the penalties for today's one - would have been pursued on the average joe.  I like it but there is an argument....

2 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Yeah  ... but .. I would put the cases against him in 2 categories as many do. 

Your argument seems to be he's only Manson, not Pol Pot.

 

If you break the law and you get caught, you have to go to court.

 

And there you might well be assessed a penalty. Even if nobody was hurt by your lawbreaking.

 

I have a relative who got caught using someone else's credit card. The victim didn't want restitution, so practically a victimless crime. That relative will be picking up trash by the highway for a couple of years of Saturday's to come.

 

Because that's how the law works. She feels persecuted too.

 

That TrumpTrash bends over backwards and sideways pretending not to understand this is very disingenous.

 

 

35 minutes ago, nausea said:

This lawfare is destroying the legitimacy of the US legal system, a heavy price to pay for some petty, or maybe not so petty, political advantage. I mean, you sort of expect it in a country like Pakistan, with all their Imran Khan shenanigans, but the US?

I didn't hear Trump supporters objecting when Trump was weaponizing the DOJ  to go after Hilary Clinton and Hunter Biden.

 

Apart from the fine itself, Trump is still saddled with an overseer for another three years to prevent more hanky-panky, and he cannot do business in New York.

 

He also has to stump up the money for an appeal, no-one with two brain cells will loan him money for the TWO appeal bonds.

 

When he stated he would encourage Russia to go after delinquent NATO countries, he revealed himself as a Putin puppet, and traitor to America. A guy who is renowned for being delinquent in paying creditors, and stiffing contractors.

 

Trump knows if he can't win in November, he is going to jail, possibly for the rest of his life.

 

The wailing Greek chorus from deranged Trumpers is music to my ears. Karma is a bitch, isn't it?

 

Don't forget to donate to his campaign, if you still think that is where your hard-earned is going.

NYMAG has a good article about just how crappy a lot of his assets are. When he liquidates to pay, he will def take a bath.

57 minutes ago, nausea said:

This lawfare is destroying the legitimacy of the US legal system, a heavy price to pay for some petty, or maybe not so petty, political advantage. I mean, you sort of expect it in a country like Pakistan, with all their Imran Khan shenanigans, but the US?

I do recall predicting you would never accept Trump being held accountable under the law.

 

And you being offended by the suggestion.

 

Well here we are at Round 1.

10 minutes ago, Prubangboy said:

Your argument seems to be he's only Manson, not Pol Pot.

 

If you break the law and you get caught, you have to go to court.

 

And there you might well be assessed a penalty. Even if nobody was hurt by your lawbreaking.

 

I have a relative who got caught using someone else's credit card. The victim didn't want restitution, so practically a victimless crime. That relative will be picking up trash by the highway for a couple of years of Saturday's to come.

 

Because that's how the law works. She feels persecuted too.

 

That TrumpTrash bends over backwards and sideways pretending not to understand this is very disingenous.

 

 

I don't disagree but, it's all been said before, but it's  that equal justice and protections under the law principle.

As an outsider I see a stirring need for Trump to be taken to account on things he has done. There's many reasons I don't like Trump - over valuing properties to get bigger loans where they were all paid back  is at the lower end. I am playing devil's advocate to ask something - would have this and some other charges been pursued if it wasn't Trump. Not sure. 

I would personally focus criticism of Trump supporters on things like their acceptance of his support of dictators, trashing of democratic principles e.g. accepting outcome of elections etc etc. Though they should accept he did the wrong thing in this case I wouldn't consider it unreasonable for them to raise the issue of possible bias in the steps leading to todays findings. 

 

49 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

oh look......

 

Another Trumper lie.

 

Trump has been given leeway in his cases no other defendant gets. His court appearances have been voluntary, in which he attempts to do political grandstanding, either inside or outside the courtroom.

 

When he strays from the facts inside the courtroom, he gets shut down. Rightfully so. The law works on facts and expert opinions, Trump has neither.

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I didn't hear Trump supporters objecting when Trump was weaponizing the DOJ  to go after Hilary Clinton and Hunter Biden.

 

Apart from the fine itself, Trump is still saddled with an overseer for another three years to prevent more hanky-panky, and he cannot do business in New York.

 

He also has to stump up the money for an appeal, no-one with two brain cells will loan him money for the TWO appeal bonds.

 

When he stated he would encourage Russia to go after delinquent NATO countries, he revealed himself as a Putin puppet, and traitor to America. A guy who is renowned for being delinquent in paying creditors, and stiffing contractors.

 

Trump knows if he can't win in November, he is going to jail, possibly for the rest of his life.

 

The wailing Greek chorus from deranged Trumpers is music to my ears. Karma is a bitch, isn't it?

 

Don't forget to donate to his campaign, if you still think that is where your hard-earned is going.

Putin puppet...yawn......  you just proved the type of person you are.

10 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

but it's  that equal justice and protections under the law principle.

 

I am playing devil's advocate to ask something - would have this and some other charges been pursued if it wasn't Trump. Not sure. 

I

 

Oh, you're def gonna get your equal justice wish. In spades.

 

State governments are basically perpetually revenue-seeking missiles.

 

Seeing this payout will have every DA in the country looking at their local real estate developers sleazy ways as means to pay for pothole-filling (I don't want to trigger the Trash by saying paying for services for new immigrants -which it will!).

 

This will be up there with with suing the cigarette companies as a money spigot.

 

So not only did he fail with his crazy coup attempt, he also blew up his own cash train.  And that of all his friends and donors.

 

Sweet.