This one has the coolest name. On that basis, it's probably the best and safest vaccine.

On 4/16/2021 at 8:57 PM, ParkerN said:

Hrmm. Maybe.

Witch craft

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I for one.

Simple question, during the pandemic have the chances of dying from covid been greater in Thailand than in the UK, Europe or the US?

It is a YES/NO answer.

 

 

And there is a simple answer from the chart of deaths per 100,000.  The number for the US is 174, while it is 0.16 for Thailand.  So, the answer is NO.

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

 

Of course, if you don't believe any data from any source, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.

 

I have been asking Thai friends and family since the beginning of the Covid year, "Do you know anyone who has been infected by Covid or do you know anyone who knows anyone in that category?"  The answer in every case has been "No" and "No."  Until now.  One person in our condo tested positive and is now in a hospital.  So, that's one data point for what it's worth.

 

By the way, I do know of several people in the US who have been infected.

Just now, connda said:

Good.  Here's the vaccine I'll take if forced to by Immigration (under duress) to have a shot in order to obtain an extension to stay with my family.

It's adenovirus viral vector vaccine but instead of using untested mRNA technology (it's being tested right now in live trials on willing human subjects), the Sputnik vaccine uses genetic material from inactivated adenovirus which is not cutting edge technology.   And unlike the Sinovac vaccine (which uses older, proven inactivated virus vaccine technology), the Sputnik vaccine has been Ok'ed for use in people over 60.
Personally until the mRNA technology has 5+ years of live trial data and epidemiological analysis, and it is fully authorized for normal use (not only under "emergency authorization) I don't want it near me or my family.  I'm not discounting or criticizing other who wish to be willing "volunteers?"  Please, go for it.  I applaud the risk you are taking by taking experimental vaccines.

And thanks to the Westerners here in Thailand who discount the Russian and Chinese vaccines based on their own home country's Geo-political distrust, if not hatred, of all things Russia and China.  That will leave more of those vaccines for people like myself who rate the vaccines based on technology and not on a xenophobic world view that excludes some societies and cultures as inferior and "evil."
I don't view any vaccines, or any other technology, through the lens of Geo-political positions that are held by my own government. 
It's like blindly accepting religious doctrine in the face of reality - if those who cleave to Western Geo-political doctrine (such as the Halford Mackinder "Heartland Theory", the US's "Manifest Destiny", Kipling's "White Man's Burden"), then the acolytes and practitioners of the Church would still be claiming the Earth is the center of the universe and all planetary bodies revolve around it.  
It's unfortunate so many in the West blindly accept their government's assertion that "Russian and China are evil."
But once there, indoctrinated Western citizens simply have no other perspective than "Russian vaccines are evil, Chinese vaccines are evil" instead of basing their views and analysis on science and technology. 
We collective lose the opportunity to live, work, trade, and prosper in peace and harmony.  I find that immensely sad.

Chill out Russophobists, , Rambo isn't documentary. Sputnik isn't worst vaccine used in western world.

 

https://theconversation.com/russian-covid-vaccine-why-more-and-more-countries-are-turning-to-sputnik-v-159158

https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/22/covid-19-germany-to-buy-30-million-doses-of-russia-s-sputnik-v-vaccine-pending-regulator-a

14 hours ago, boogiewoogie said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/02/02/health/russia-sputnik-v-phase-3-intl/index.html

 

U wish u had ur hands on 91.6 vaccine right now buddy. Even if ISIS discovered it.

According to the above link it costs $10 per dose but Thailand is paying $21.

Say what you want about 'dictators'. That term is only used in respect of human rights. But autocrats get the job done...and for everybody not just a few oligarchs. Thank you, Putin & Hun Sen. Thai generals could learn a lot from you!

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

I'm very pro vaccine.  Because of what we're going through, it seems out only way out of this mess. 

Back in the 50s mass vaccination eradicated the likes of smallpox, whooping cough, polio etc. If vaccine hysteria was as rampant then as it is now we would all be living with world wide disease and poverty.

15 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

“Our health ministry will now urgently talk to the company importing the Sputnik V vaccine on the timeframe for delivery, the amount and price,” he said.

5% down. 1% interest over 5 years might work and if it doesn't it's back to looking again.

9 minutes ago, connda said:

We collective lose the opportunity to live, work, trade, and prosper in peace and harmony.  I find that immensely sad.

Thank you for saying this so well. I'd give you more than one trophy if possible. Arms sales form the basis of Western economies. War is profit-driven.

10 minutes ago, connda said:

And thanks to the Westerners here in Thailand who discount the Russian and Chinese vaccines based on their own home country's Geo-political distrust, if not hatred, of all things Russia and China. 

 

No, it's just that I do not trust dictator vaccines for which the data is incomplete, hidden, or withheld, which fits into a pattern of behavior whereby science is made to conform to political interests.

11 minutes ago, Bezdomny said:

Chill out Russophobists, , Rambo isn't documentary. Sputnik isn't worst vaccine used in western world.

 

https://theconversation.com/russian-covid-vaccine-why-more-and-more-countries-are-turning-to-sputnik-v-159158

https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/22/covid-19-germany-to-buy-30-million-doses-of-russia-s-sputnik-v-vaccine-pending-regulator-a

Four people recently died in Russia shortly after taking the Sputnik V anti-corona jab in previously unreported cases, which are being taken "seriously" by the EU regulator, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) in Amsterdam.

https://euobserver.com/world/151483

All these vaccines have not been tried and none have been approved using the usual practices. FDA is compromised and cannot be trusted. They are all <deleted> and now its a choice between the lesser <deleted>.

25 minutes ago, connda said:

And thanks to the Westerners here in Thailand who discount the Russian and Chinese vaccines based on their own home country's Geo-political distrust, if not hatred, of all things Russia and China.  That will leave more of those vaccines for people like myself who rate the vaccines based on technology and not on a xenophobic world view that excludes some societies and cultures as inferior and "evil."
I don't view any vaccines, or any other technology, through the lens of Geo-political positions that are held by my own government. 
It's like blindly accepting religious doctrine in the face of reality - if those who cleave to Western Geo-political doctrine (such as the Halford Mackinder "Heartland Theory", the US's "Manifest Destiny", Kipling's "White Man's Burden"), then the acolytes and practitioners of the Church would still be claiming the Earth is the center of the universe and all planetary bodies revolve around it.  
It's unfortunate so many in the West blindly accept their government's assertion that "Russian and China are evil."
But once there, indoctrinated Western citizens simply have no other perspective than "Russian vaccines are evil, Chinese vaccines are evil" instead of basing their views and analysis on science and technology. 
We collective lose the opportunity to live, work, trade, and prosper in peace and harmony.  I find that immensely sad.

Nice rant.  It's not just Westerners here in Thailand who are skeptical of these jabs.  Scientists are worried also.  Due to the lack of data and visibility into the vaccines.  Russia and China are not known for telling the truth.  And with their internal news sources tightly controlled, who knows.

 

I'll stick with ones that have published their trial results and these results were peer reviewed.  That ain't these two.  Sadly.

 

With that being said.  They're better than nothing and guaranteed, we'll need booster shots within a year or so anyway.

Just now, Magenta408 said:

All these vaccines have not been tried and none have been approved using the usual practices. FDA is compromised and cannot be trusted. They are all <deleted> and now its a choice between the lesser <deleted>.

FDA is compromised?  Stop with the misinformation.  It doesn't help anyone.  Just makes things worse.

16 hours ago, Chang_paarp said:

First Sonovac, now Sputnik. They must be cheap.

 

If there's ever going to be an epitaph for this administration, it should read, "Relentlessly falling under the wrong spheres of influence."

Manufacture the vials and fill them with saline. No one will be any wiser or poorer for it. As it is now, it's Russian Roulette (no pun intended re: Sputnik V). It's <deleted> like all the others. Untested and risky.

A conspiracy troll post and a post all in caps have been removed

For those fellow posters who seem to think having the full data is not necessary, let me show you an example of what I consider, to be good factual data, given by a credible authority. The good and the bad from "real world data." This kind of data gives confidence and credibility.

 

CDC: Out of 75 million fully vaccinated Americans, 5,800 got COVID-19, and 74 died

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/infected-after-covid-vaccination-cdc-numbers-breakthrough-infections-2021-4

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Magenta408 said:

Manufacture the vials and fill them with saline. No one will be any wiser or poorer for it. As it is now, it's Russian Roulette (no pun intended re: Sputnik V). It's <deleted> like all the others. Untested and risky.

These C-19 vaccines are all being developed and tested along the same rigorous guidelines and scientific standards as every other vaccine that preceded it.

 

The rate of the C-19 vaccine roll-out, ie. the jabbing it into people's arms is what is unprecedented here. All vaccines have indicated an exceedingly small percentage of contraindications including fatality. These tend to show up under analysis after many, many years of being injected into many millions of different people. It stands to reason that the still exceedingly small percentages of those having adverse reactions would show up faster.

 

If you don't want vaccinated, that's your business. Suggesting that others should do the same as you is on a hiding for nothing.

16 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

FDA is compromised?  Stop with the misinformation.  It doesn't help anyone.  Just makes things worse.

I honestly have no idea if the Thai FDA is compromised, but I would be interested in seeing any information or evidence one way or the other; that is, if it is something safe to talk about, and that's what gives me pause-it isn't.

However, on the principle that I don't trust anything in this country (right or wrong), I'll just take the safe route and not trust them either.

10 minutes ago, Enzian said:

I honestly have no idea if the Thai FDA is compromised, but I would be interested in seeing any information or evidence one way or the other; that is, if it is something safe to talk about, and that's what gives me pause-it isn't.

However, on the principle that I don't trust anything in this country (right or wrong), I'll just take the safe route and not trust them either.

But you said that the FDA was compromised. Telling a porky like that doesn't help right now.

 

The top jabs are all good. We need to roll our shirts up as soon as we can.

I will be happy to take it, no problem. We can always pick and choose the second vaccine next year when there are more choices available. Nobody is dying from the shots, just from covid.

 

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

But you said that the FDA was compromised. Telling a porky like that doesn't help right now.

 

The top jabs are all good. We need to roll our shirts up as soon as we can.

No, look back, that was Magenta408 you were replying to, not me. I'm consistently skeptical, admitting I may be wrong.

If Thailand and the Thai people are satisfied with dictator vaccines from China and Russia, so be it. They can get plenty. In that case, I would suggest that Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J cancel all potential orders from Thailand and redirect vaccine to those countries in need.

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

For those fellow posters who seem to think having the full data is not necessary, let me show you an example of what I consider, to be good factual data, given by a credible authority. The good and the bad from "real world data." This kind of data gives confidence and credibility.

 

CDC: Out of 75 million fully vaccinated Americans, 5,800 got COVID-19, and 74 died

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/infected-after-covid-vaccination-cdc-numbers-breakthrough-infections-2021-4

 

 

 

 

One thing missing in the data is to specify the breakthrough cases by variant. The British variant is getting dominant there, but the South African and the Brazilian variant still have very small, but growing share.

 

Fascinating data below in the link, highlighting the race between the variants and the vaccine manufacturers. I suspect today's vaccines won't do much good one year from now.

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions

1 hour ago, connda said:

And thanks to the Westerners here in Thailand who discount the Russian and Chinese vaccines based on their own home country's Geo-political distrust, if not hatred, of all things Russia and China.  That will leave more of those vaccines for people like myself who rate the vaccines based on technology and not on a xenophobic world view that excludes some societies and cultures as inferior and "evil."
I don't view any vaccines, or any other technology, through the lens of Geo-political positions that are held by my own government. 
It's like blindly accepting religious doctrine in the face of reality - if those who cleave to Western Geo-political doctrine (such as the Halford Mackinder "Heartland Theory", the US's "Manifest Destiny", Kipling's "White Man's Burden"), then the acolytes and practitioners of the Church would still be claiming the Earth is the center of the universe and all planetary bodies revolve around it.  
It's unfortunate so many in the West blindly accept their government's assertion that "Russian and China are evil."
But once there, indoctrinated Western citizens simply have no other perspective than "Russian vaccines are evil, Chinese vaccines are evil" instead of basing their views and analysis on science and technology. 
We collective lose the opportunity to live, work, trade, and prosper in peace and harmony.  I find that immensely sad.

I believe Russians too are blinded by Anti western propaganda.  I also believe Russia has a cynical wicked leadership in Putin. But I do not believe  the Russian vaccine is automatically inferior or the Chinese vaccine for that matter. As with many covid issues politics not science is driving decisions both at personal and national level. The spat between the UK and EU is shameful. It is notable that both Macron and Merkel have made very suspect anti vaccine statements in a very irresponsible manner fueling and giving credence to anti vaccine nutters and conspiracy theorists.

1 hour ago, 4737 Carlin said:

This one has the coolest name. On that basis, it's probably the best and safest vaccine.

Coming soon the Sputnik energy drink powered by secret Russian ingredient!

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

You? Who is you?

So in real life there is no any "you" who can decide anything. There is only "government" that will torture anyone who wants to make a really independent media resource.

This is true for any country in this world. People are being tired of all this hypocrisy about media resources that could be independent from government.

1 hour ago, Enzian said:

Anutin's comment about the Pfizer vaccine's cost not being a factor, that time and people's safety are the essence, is only about 6 months too late. How more clear could they be that they blew it? 

But I know this thread is about the Russian offering; myself I'll wait for Pfizer.

The cost of the Pfizer is unlikely to be significantly more than the Sinovac or the Sputnik because padding US invoices with middlemen’s margins, procurement fees and consultant costs is much more difficult than with procurements from low quality sellers like Sputnik and Sinovac. The latter was actually charged in China with paying bribes to the Chinese regulator.

 

I would prefer to wait for the Pfizer but fear it will be a long wait, if we ever get the chance to buy here. If enough doses arrive for only 5 million people, I would expect some competition for it. By the time the last doses arrive, those who got the first batches will be using their money and influence to get third shot boosters.

 

Some American friends, who don’t have families here to worry about are already planning to fly back to the US to get Pfizered. Hope they don’t get infected on the flight over.