Caution urged for relaxing laws on foreigners owning land in Thailand

[rupert the bear]

condos are space in the air,so this is absurd and whos gonna buy all these units?building companies must love this screaming xenophobe.foreign investment will dry up.thats quite obvious,theyll fall further into Xis orbit as the thai military wish to model thailand on that regime so they can stay in power forever.as for land give people full leases solves the problem ,65 yrs and everyones happy,you can sell it on and it cant be owned forever but logic and intelligence ....ha we all know  the answer to that one,the problem is china in reality ,look at lanka  cambodia parts of latam and other places,let em in and your screwed.in sihanoukville non chinese are not allowed in some restaurants and hotels,it kicked off when they banned khymers even!!ahhh the han project!it would be best to ignore people like tis and also make thais the subject of reciprocal agreements ,that would hit the hi so hard and lead to a moment of .........lucid thought

[natway09]

The laws on foreign ownership of freehold land can get very complex.

Have a look at the Japanese in Queensland on the Gold Coast & many of the vineyards in NZ that have sprung up

with foreign ownership. Shania Twain at Cromwell  in NZ I think it was had to sell 2 vineyards 

due to new laws on ownership.

The Chinese would just buy up, giving Thailand a one off foreign earnings bonanza but in the long term would takeover. 

Only got to look at many places in Cambodia.

Laos is slightly different as the non elected Govt basically can reclaim any land they want, whenever they want.

Strata title % of condos foreign owned has the same problem.

Once China owned more than 50% of the area they can basically control the development,, also

fraught with danger

[Billy A]

Single biggest mistake that Thais could make is to allow land ownership by foreign people.  This could mean the beginning of the end for Thais ever being able to buy a house or land in their own country.

 

Mexico has created restricted zones where foreigners can purchase land 50 kilometers from shorelines and 100 kilometers from international borders.  Maybe Thailand can create restricted zones, but Thailand is geographically a fraction on Mexico.

 

Imagine a foreign company or someone with enormous wealth power buying out in perpetuity large chunks of land in Thailand, and one day deciding that they don’t want an outdoor market here or there, or no more street vendors here or there, or that rather than Buddhist temples on their land they want Christian churches on every block… <deleted> that! Thailand is great the way it is, where falang can complain about stupid things all day long but don’t have real power to dictate how Thais live their lives, how their homes look, or how their towns look. Also, that’s not mentioning the likeliness of sky rocketing prices that properties will undergo when foreigners become the main market to sell land too.

 

All around, It’s a terrible idea for Thais to ever allow unrestricted foreign ownership of land.

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, chalawaan said:

Chinese interests in those places amount to commercial interests. It's actually a lifeline, because they'd be swamps otherwise.

Now I'm not a CCP apologist, but the Chinese authored art of war says know thy enemy. The Chinese are business focussed, they are not bent on occupation, because it makes little economic sense. The Roman empire was financially ruined by its Imperial costs. And America is heading the same way with a virtual empire of trillion dollar bases, and carrier groups.

 

China is learning from Afghanistan and Vietnam. They make deals, not war. They let the Taliban get on with it, so long as they don't get in the way of China getting its way. 

 

Thailand, as you must know if you live in the major cities, is ridiculously overbuilt. Chiang Mai is chock full of empty middle class villages and tower blocks. Even if they were built as drug money laundries, my guess, its unsustainable having them sit abandoned. 

 

The positives of price rises and associated commerce and human activity is exactly what Thailand desperately needs, not just to get back on its feet, but to deal with the impending baby shortage and middle income trap.

 

And the middle class here are significantly ethnic Chinese in similar ratios that White Australia is ethnically British. 

 

Having said that, theres considerable tension in Singapore, where local Chinese resent Mainlanders driving up prices, but omelettes, and eggs and all that. 

 

Thailand cannot go on being this corrupt yappy little dog thinking its a global great dane unless it behaves more like the other big dogs in the neighbourhood.

 

Thailand has vast potential, as does the Philippines, its the criminal political dynasties in both states that are the problem, not the organised, cashed up regulation loving Chinese from China and elsewhere in the region.

 

 

 

OK so you think its a good idea for Thailand to follow the Myanmar, Laos and Cambodian model of allowing Chinese government/companies to buy up huge areas of land and turn them into a Chinese enclave within those countries?

[Jen65]

I think if Thailand got it's head round the Visa anomalies and give retirees and those of us that actually live here ie spend more than 180 days here a year , can prove that a purchased residence here is our "only " residence (ie own property ) , comply with the current O-A visa requirements ( ie insurance / monies in the bank)  ,  a "Retirement/Resident Certificate "  . 

Currently we seem to be stateless on a 1 year tourist visa !!      The issue of such should allow one to purchase the land and the property on it .         

[JUARNETTE]

11 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

You will find Sophon's name all over the place in the past, I would term him a bit of my idea of a right wing xenophobist. "Agency FREA" is his private company, I know him and the company as I hired them to value my home back in the day. He was University (thats how I came to know him) lecturer with private business interests.

You are what is known as a Brother Machine…. I.e. Lable Maker

 

 

[djayz]

The coffers are empty, thanks to the China virus, so let the stupid foreigners spend their hard earned money on property here for the next few years. Then, when the banks are brimming with money again, just change the laws and deny them ownership. This can be easily achieved by a change in government or another coup d'état. Problem solved! 

Banana Republic. Always has been, always will be. 

 

I was very disappointed to read some of the comments on the first page (didn't read any more) though. There are actually foreigners who think we shouldn't be allowed to buy/own land here?! What about the hundreds of thousands of immigrants who move to western countries legally and are allowed to own property there? Why should we be treated differently here? What's good for the goose, should be good for the gander. 

 

A lot of this is xenophobic nonsense. We live here, have families here, work here, pay taxes here, support the local economy here day in day out and are still treated like we fell off a refugee boat. 

 

It's time to open up. 

[bristolgeoff]

You can own a condo,but not on the first 2 floors,That is deemed owning the land.Land must be a thai  but u can be on a lease for 30 yrs so u can stay there.The thai can not sell until the lease is over.Lawyers can have it all tied up no problem for anybody.That is all i know from my experience.

   I  don,t think the government want to change  rules of land  ownership in a hurry that will let the farang have a advantage

[bangon04]

As a way to test it - let foreigners buy and own Thai football clubs.....

[harleyclarkey]

 

13 hours ago, webfact said:

the government not to just listen to the views of foreign investors who want the laws changed. 

Really? Is this joker serious?

.How about we reverse roles.....ban all Thais (read the rich and the corrupt) from owning foreign lands and properties.

The stupid thing is they get full legal protection for anything they buy and nearly always freehold. 

 

STUPID us....

[The Cipher]

4 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

There are a lot of countries I know that allow ownership of land for foreigners and none of them has ever suffered from this afaik ...

Well you know, except the countries contain cities like Hong Kong, London, Vancouver, Sydney, Toronto, Auckland...

 

This needs to be handled with great care if it's allowed to move forward at all. I realize that the ability to own the land they live on is appealing to certain types of foreigner who have made lives in the country, but freely throwing open the gates to international capital would probably be a serious mistake.

 

You'd be introducing sharks into a pond of minnows, and most ordinary Thais - and long-stay foreigners as well - could feel wide-reaching negative consequences from that.

[RichardColeman]

11 hours ago, samtam said:

You're assuming all foreigners are married to Thais, or you want land ownership to only be available to those who are?

No, you obviously failed to read what I posted. Nothing to do with being married

 

2. if you die and  you still own a property, your direct family have 5 years to sell it before it is returned to the state.

[smudger1951]

13 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

He has a point though.

The issue will not be westerners buying one rai out in the sticks somewhere and building a house for him and his familly.

The issue will be Chinese companies buying up huge tracts of land and developing them as a home from home for use by a select few of their fellow countrymen.

Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos are already experiencing this. 

I agree, if I could sit down and have a chat with papa Prayut I would say don't do it, keep it in the family. I read Saudi Arabia wanted to buy land to grow rice. 

[bluejets]

They would do well to be concerned as it will force the price of land etc. way beyond the reach of the average Thai.

[NobbyClarke]

One law passed today negated in a few years.

It is just the master plan by the Chinese to help their take over of LOS

[kiwikeith]

18 hours ago, Shuya said:

Relax buddy.... They just make a new law in five years that foreigners can't own land and have to sell within 12 months. All part of the master plan. 

Most of these foreigners will be Chinese investors.

A sensible land ownership policy will work, NZ has one in place , developer's can not buy up land now , a sensible policy for retirees ect to own one residential property or a business would not be to hard to implement  but TIT 

[kiwikeith]

2 hours ago, smudger1951 said:

I agree, if I could sit down and have a chat with papa Prayut I would say don't do it, keep it in the family. I read Saudi Arabia wanted to buy land to grow rice. 

If he takes your advice, "keep it in the Family" then the Chinese will win, he and his offsider are mainly Chinese decent.

[kiwikeith]

7 hours ago, The Cipher said:

Well you know, except the countries contain cities like Hong Kong, London, Vancouver, Sydney, Toronto, Auckland...

 

This needs to be handled with great care if it's allowed to move forward at all. I realize that the ability to own the land they live on is appealing to certain types of foreigner who have made lives in the country, but freely throwing open the gates to international capital would probably be a serious mistake.

 

You'd be introducing sharks into a pond of minnows, and most ordinary Thais - and long-stay foreigners as well - could feel wide-reaching negative consequences from that.

What happened in NZ was the Chinese went mad and started buying up properties at large, finances were flowing in from Chinese banks, new immigrants were being given money to purchase in underground deals, property prices went ballistic, when I was selling my house in Auckland about 200 Chinese came through, properties were selling overnight.

Then the milk powder industry became under threat NZ's biggest export, the Chinese were buying up Dairy farms and opening their own milk powder factories.

Then in stepped the government --- to late. The horse had bolted , properties never went down foreign ownership laws changed but it was to late, the property market in NZ and Australia, the USA and Canada are still going up, now Covid has caused people to get out of city apartments and head for stand alone property away from the city a bit.

[humbug]

15 hours ago, Neeranam said:

It's strange how the people in charge of this country are 2nd generation  Chinese immigrants, yet much more anti-foreigner than real Thais. 

exactly the reason, chinese/thais who started to emigrate en masse 150 years ago are protecting their new invaded country within for motherland, against any competitor nations/cultures.

 

chinese easily became citizens over the 150 years, own land, businesses, become law makers, generals

 

has anyone seen an indian/thai law maker or general? malay/thai general or law maker? cambodian:thai, western/thai, not a chance

 

the chinese and chinese/thais are the reason we don't own land, or make it extremely difficult, they are the ones shouting about treason and using scare tactics

 

all the while they land grabbed bangkok and thonburi last 150 years,  from ethnic thais who were mostly vedic, mon going back 2000 years

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by humbug

[humbug]

2 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

If he takes your advice, "keep it in the Family" then the Chinese will win, he and his offsider are mainly Chinese decent.

yes, if it wasn't for the chinese/thais, all other foreigners would have easier rights to own land and businesses, they have closed the shop door, and made it extremely difficult for any non chinese to own land or a business here

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by humbug

[The Cipher]

1 hour ago, kiwikeith said:

What happened in NZ was the Chinese went mad and started buying up properties at large, finances were flowing in from Chinese banks, new immigrants were being given money to purchase in underground deals, property prices went ballistic, when I was selling my house in Auckland about 200 Chinese came through, properties were selling overnight.

Then the milk powder industry became under threat NZ's biggest export, the Chinese were buying up Dairy farms and opening their own milk powder factories.

Then in stepped the government --- to late. The horse had bolted , properties never went down foreign ownership laws changed but it was to late, the property market in NZ and Australia, the USA and Canada are still going up, now Covid has caused people to get out of city apartments and head for stand alone property away from the city a bit.

Yes, that's my point. As we've seen elsewhere - if gov were to just throw open the gates, a flood of new capital would move prices out of reach of many locals and, bluntly, out of reach of many of the foreign retirees also.

 

You could end up with a system where real estate assets trade based on factors that aren't related to the earning power of locals, and would have basically priced your own population out of the market. Probably not ideal.

[HandsomeTallFarang]

More foreigner-phobia. Thailand would be nothing without foreigners. They would still be growing rice and making somtum in peasant villages like they were 100 years ago if not for foreign interests. By all means, continue using foreigner innovations like smartphones and pretty much every luxury there is here, but continue to hate and treat the people who gifted these things to them as inferior. Thailan Nummer One.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, HandsomeTallFarang said:

More foreigner-phobia. Thailand would be nothing without foreigners. They would still be growing rice and making somtum in peasant villages like they were 100 years ago if not for foreign interests. 

Could say the same for the USA, except smoking peace pipes.

[thaitom]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:37 AM, Will B Good said:

There must be a defamation case coming his way.

I was wondering how does one file a defamation case , also is there a statue of limitation from when it occurred ? 

 

[relax33]

18 hours ago, chalawaan said:

Thailand has vast potential, as does the Philippines, its the criminal political dynasties in both states that are the problem, not the organised, cashed up regulation loving Chinese from China and elsewhere in the region.

Its a pity the US turned a blind eye to things after WW2.
But all is not lost n it can still seek the righteous path right now by sending troops to Burma n elsewhere (including places we r very familiar with) to support the protestors n put down the bullies if it truly believes in democracy n respect for human rights ...
But sadly, its busy looking the other way as usual  ...

[HandsomeTallFarang]

4 minutes ago, relax33 said:

Its a pity the US turned a blind eye to things after WW2.
But all is not lost n it can still seek the righteous path right now by sending troops to Burma n elsewhere (including places we r very familiar with) to support the protestors n put down the bullies if it truly believes in democracy n respect for human rights ...
But sadly, its busy looking the other way as usual  ...

What are you going on about? The USA are not the police of the world. Look how well Afghanistan turned out when we tried to bring “democracy and freedom” there. Some places are just not ready for it. This idea that the USA needs to liberate foreign nations and bring democracy is a relic of the Cold War that baby boomers were indoctrinated to believe was a just cause. Every generation after the baby boomers are overwhelmingly non-interventionist. The USA needs to worry about their own problems.

[The Cipher]

10 minutes ago, HandsomeTallFarang said:

Look how well Afghanistan turned out when we tried to bring democracy...there. Some places are just not ready for it.

Real talk, the USA itself isn't ready for democracy ????.

 

Not just an American problem tho, it's a failing system in a lot of places these days.

[relax33]

31 minutes ago, HandsomeTallFarang said:

What are you going on about? The USA are not the police of the world. Look how well Afghanistan turned out when we tried to bring “democracy and freedom” there. Some places are just not ready for it. This idea that the USA needs to liberate foreign nations and bring democracy is a relic of the Cold War that baby boomers were indoctrinated to believe was a just cause. Every generation after the baby boomers are overwhelmingly non-interventionist. The USA needs to worry about their own problems.

You are right,  but than if that 's the case, it goes to show that all the recent blah blah about human rights n democracy in HK n Xinjiang is just a show that is solely enacted to pick fights with an economic competitor .., which would not put the West n the US in a very good light either ..

Edited September 21, 2021 by relax33

[kcpattaya]

On 9/20/2021 at 10:31 AM, webfact said:

A leading figure in the real estate business

Dr Sophon Pornchokchai????
First class clown that quickly needs to retire before his retardness takes over completly. 

[TechnikaIII]

Not only are we pushed around, and to say with "utter disrespect" is not an exhageration, we are now the enemy. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by TechnikaIII
Punctuation correction.