Expat on Samui says he was threatened with deportation by hospital over Covid bill

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

 

Not trying to get into all the permutations and ramifications for those on vacations, just stating some simple facts.

 

Not sure if the local authorities will take action, though they should.

 

I do know that if you contact your consulate officer of such an incident, they will indeed take action.

 

 

.

 

Strange maybe its different for the UK: 

 

He said that the British Embassy contacted the hospital and informed him that the hospital acted within the Covid laws except when they held his passport. 

 

 

I am pretty sure my country would not do a thing and would say pay of your debt or its a private problem. Im pretty sure they don't have much power.

[billd766]

33 minutes ago, Toby1947 said:

No sympathy, choose to live in a 10th world racist country then live by their rules. But of course you can always come slinking home to the good old NHS like the rest of the not contributing

 expats when their health goes belly up.

Really? I paid NI contributions for 44 years and I cannot remember the last time I used them, but it was more than 30 years ago.

 

My state pension was frozen at the 2009 rate, the carers allowance was with drawn in 2020, the death benefit was withdrawn a few years ago, but the UK government STILL taxes my pensions and gives me SFA in return.

[Mike k]

12 hours ago, Henryford said:

Another good reason never to take a Covid test

My wife died of a heart attack Sunday and the hospital was talking about giving all of us that was in contact with her a covid test. They called Monday morning and said they tested her and it was negative so we could come pick up her body. 

[Mike k]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Really? I paid NI contributions for 44 years and I cannot remember the last time I used them, but it was more than 30 years ago.

 

My state pension was frozen at the 2009 rate, the carers allowance was with drawn in 2020, the death benefit was withdrawn a few years ago, but the UK government STILL taxes my pensions and gives me SFA in return.

Sounds like the US I still have to pay taxes and Medicare won't pay medical bills here even though I paid into it all my working life 

[newnative]

If you can't cough up 60,000 baht to pay a bill you probably should not be living in a foreign country.  

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

6 hours ago, rbkk said:

She is not here for me to check at the moment

did you get rid of her for the life insurance?

[ukrules]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

I re read it and something does not add up.

They threatened criminal penalties for what's essentially a civil matter.

 

The correct course of action to take when someone doesn't pay something or defaults from a payment plan is civil litigation.

 

What I think we're missing here is the timeline - how long did this play out over?

 

I suspect it's something that played out over a period of months.

Edited September 22, 2021 by ukrules

[kiwikeith]

16 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Yeah this is the message and it's really sad.

 

I know that many thais think the same, no one wants to be locked up like an animal and even pay for it...

That's telling me that this disease is not killing people or requiring hospital treatment for healthy people, just stay at home, funny enough that's how the majority of cases are treated in NZs latest outbreak, but don't forget your 11 times likely to die if you're not jabbed up, according to to the Centre for comunitive disease 

[Stargeezr]

Another reason for Thailand being a country I like to visit to escape Winter months, but

not a country that I would trust enough to live in, especially with COVID and all its after

effects, like this hospital bill, etc. LOS indeed, Amazing indeed.. Expensive, Indeed.

Geezer

[Destiny1990]

So why he was forced to pay 60k for one night in that government hospital? Where is his receipt? What was the treatment?

[srowndedbyh2o]

These type of situations are why Thailand will eventually require all foreigners entering the country or renewing extensions to have valid health insurance coverage for the duration of their stay in Thailand.

[Tropicalevo]

9 hours ago, Mike k said:

My wife died of a heart attack Sunday and the hospital was talking about giving all of us that was in contact with her a covid test. They called Monday morning and said they tested her and it was negative so we could come pick up her body. 

Sorry to hear about your wife. ????

[BTB1977]

So he felt fine , but still went to the hospital.  He should have refused any corvid test. I told my wife when we went to get our shots to not take any corvid test. Even if it is free. She understands this. If you are fine but test positive it is 14 days corvid jail. Have had a few stupid friends that are paranoid go get tested and ended up in corvid jail.  Than complained that it was not necessary.  

[robblok]

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

They threatened criminal penalties for what's essentially a civil matter.

 

The correct course of action to take when someone doesn't pay something or defaults from a payment plan is civil litigation.

 

What I think we're missing here is the timeline - how long did this play out over?

 

I suspect it's something that played out over a period of months.

This was according to the news article last month. (I would have thought months too but not according to the article)

According to the article he could not leave unless he left his passport and then a payment plan.

 

Then according to him he started getting threatening emails and stuff after the payment plan and passport held.

 

He called the Brit embassy who did not do a thing about the passport and said they were right to go the criminal way (because of emergency situation)

 

He went to a lawyer who also probably told him forget about it.

 

Then he paid it all got his passport back.

 

But this order of things does not really make sense unless he refused to honor the payment plan. So he probably refused and after that got the threats. So he was unwilling to pay.

 

The correct course of action is one thing, but expats have a tendency to just fly home. Hospitals have suffered a lot because of this so they resort to these kind of tactics. I think its understandable and if an expat makes a huge fuzz about a bill they are of course extra worried.

 

 

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

So why he was forced to pay 60k for one night in that government hospital? Where is his receipt? What was the treatment?

You also don't read well 1 day hospital and 14 days in a hotel he choose for quarantine. (I posted picsof the hotel before will again)

 

I don't think his problem was about the price but the fact that he had to pay. But even Thais pay if they go to hotel quarantine, not if they go to a field hospital. 

 

He claims he was not allowed too or not available but there are field hospitals at the main land and a ward on the island. So I have my doubts maybe he just thought why not hotel if its free. I mean we are just hearing HIS side of the story.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/22/2021 at 9:59 AM, rbkk said:

The wife got me a Dhipaya Insurance Covid-19 policy, top one, 800 baht. Seems I might be better off catching Covid-19 and claiming costs (Up to 100,000 baht) than not having Covid-19 and getting stitched with a Quarantine 'Hospitel' bill. The small print of the policy is all in Thai so not too sure where I stand re:'Hospitels.' 

 "The small print of the policy is all in Thai so not too sure where I stand re:'Hospitels."  Yes, very typical of insurance companies, small print and legal jargon, to give them excuses not to pay out on claims.

[pedro01]

14 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

You misunderstand....

 

One does not turn over their passport in the first place; not to a hospital, not to a scooter rental shop. 

 

Many folks do not know this, which is why I posted it.

 

 

 

 

I understand but you called it 'leverage' as if them holding it could easily be used against them.

 

That is only the case if you have money for court.

[NoshowJones]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:34 AM, robblok said:

Maybe, but some people just refuse to pay their bills. I feel its justified. 

 

Hospitals have a lot of problem collecting money from expats. I can understand they want some security. Maybe the guy should have deposited some money instead of his passport. 

 

Edit i read he paid 10.000 deposit and later he did pay the other 50k.

 

So he could pay and only the fact that they had his passport made him pay.

So not a case of not being able to pay but not willing to pay.

Is it not the case that there is some sort of international law that does not allow companies to withhold passports, but here they just don't bother, and they have the backing of the unelected soldier government to do this.

I know you are from Holland Rob, so I cannot comment there, but I would sure like to know the British law regarding who has and has not got the authority to check passports.

Example. I know that in Thailand, policemen below a commissioned rank have no authority to check your passport, although the Thai police are really a law into themselves.

[Conquerbrqvilok]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:57 AM, Dmaxdan said:

What a stupid situation.

Being victimized like this is not exactly going to encourage foreigners to come forward and be tested, even if they believe they have Covid symptoms.

 

 

Don't worry the world full of fools and they will land here often you may find foreigners defending Thai system more than Thais do

[Conquerbrqvilok]

16 % of Thai people in the UK they don't even hold a valid visa and they get free treatments and vaccine , Hospitals , Banks in UK and EU the only thing they check in your passport biometric page 

 

[NoshowJones]

23 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Because it was supposed to be for free I think.

 

And anyway, he was being kept there against his will.

 

He could have stayed at a field hospital would be his argument I guess.

 

The lesson here I think is not to get tested at an expensive hospital.

 

Actually, I just cancelled a dental appointment at a private hospital because they want to do a covid test beforehand. I'll have a rethink.  I don't want to be faced with forced quarantine at 50k for the fortnight.  That's sheer extortion anyway.

There are far too many people getting richer and taking full advantage of this pandemic, shame on the lot of them. I hope Karma hits them really hard.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

You also don't read well 1 day hospital and 14 days in a hotel he choose for quarantine. (I posted picsof the hotel before will again)

 

I don't think his problem was about the price but the fact that he had to pay. But even Thais pay if they go to hotel quarantine, not if they go to a field hospital. 

 

He claims he was not allowed too or not available but there are field hospitals at the main land and a ward on the island. So I have my doubts maybe he just thought why not hotel if its free. I mean we are just hearing HIS side of the story.

I do notice that you focus on the complainant with an almost religious zeal, examining his part with a forensic eye that even Sherlock Holmes would applaud.

 

But what about the basic unfairness and absurdity of the situation? I dare say they are acting according to the law to a point, but I think it highly unlikely the law allows provision to extort money from an individual.  Indeed it was most likely framed on the assumption that the quarantine facilities would be free.  Indeed, we see this in nearly all instances. Where an individual stays in more luxurious surrounding, it will be by preference.  I believe any judge would brand their actions unlawful and unconscionable.

 

Frankly, it's totally absurd, even by Thai standards.  And a hospital.....of all institutions!

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

There are far too many people getting richer and taking full advantage of this pandemic, shame on the lot of them. I hope Karma hits them really hard.

Some people indeed take advantage of it. I don't feel that the big pharma companies are bad, without them we would not have the vaccines and would all have to use shinovax. Don't you think they can make a bit of money for their effort ? Would you rather pay less and have more people die ?

 

There are plenty of pharma research companies that put money in investigating the virus but could not develop a vaccine. Do you want to pay them the money back ?. Because that is what is happening pharma companies are taking risks investing money and if it fails they lose it, but if they succeed people moan because they make a profit. 

 

Capitalism has its downsides, but it is also the reason why the US was always ahead of Russia. Not rewarding people who do a good job means people are less likely to take risks and invest time and money. 

 

If your talking about people buying up stuff for cheap.. I don't like it but that is how it works. I mean governments should help companies avoid being taken over because of this.  

 

I dont like people taking advantage of unfair practices, but on the other hand i do like it that because of capitalism we got better vaccines and faster too. I don't mind that those who supply it profit from that. Otherwise everyone would have to take vaccines like shinovax and sputnix.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

I do notice that you focus on the complainant with an almost religious zeal, examining his part with a forensic eye that even Sherlock Holmes would applaud.

 

But what about the basic unfairness and absurdity of the situation? I dare say they are acting according to the law to a point, but I think it highly unlikely the law allows provision to extort money from an individual.  Indeed it was most likely framed on the assumption that the quarantine facilities would be free.  Indeed, we see this in nearly all instances. Where an individual stays in more luxurious surrounding, it will be by preference.  I believe any judge would brand their actions unlawful and unconscionable.

 

Frankly, it's totally absurd, even by Thai standards.  And a hospital.....of all institutions!

Thank you, that is what i like about the forum, to have an argument based on logic and the facts available. That is what a debate is. That is what i like about it.

 

You call it extorting, i call it making sure you get paid. Have you ever run a company ? Do you know how hard it can be to collect from people ? how much time it takes, that often you have to take losses ? Do you think those things are fair. I am a business owner and the thing I hate most is doing work for people and then not getting paid. 

 

You also realize that its quite common for expats to skip out on bills of hospital and that there have been many cases in the news. So yes they went about it the wrong way but this guy has given them reason too. If they went the legal way they probably would not have been able to collect. Before a court case is final and can be enforced the guy could be back in the UK. 

 

And you say a hospital of all institutions, what does it matter what institution it is, we all deserve to get paid for what we do. 

 

You do understand that hospitals started doing these things as a response to losses occurred by people who skipped out on their bills leaving the hospital without any legal way to enforce it. So its their response to illegal actions of expats / tourists. It certainly is not nice but not having people pay is also bad.

 

You side with the bill skippers, i side with those who want to see money for the service they provided. I think its clear that the service has been provided and the price is not crazy high given the luxurious hotel he stayed in for quarantine. Did the guy have a document from the hospital stating he did not have to pay ? I doubt it. Would you have checked if you had to pay or not and if they say no would you have gotten it in writing ? I think this guy is responsible for his own mistakes.

[NoshowJones]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Some people indeed take advantage of it. I don't feel that the big pharma companies are bad, without them we would not have the vaccines and would all have to use shinovax. Don't you think they can make a bit of money for their effort ? Would you rather pay less and have more people die ?

 

There are plenty of pharma research companies that put money in investigating the virus but could not develop a vaccine. Do you want to pay them the money back ?. Because that is what is happening pharma companies are taking risks investing money and if it fails they lose it, but if they succeed people moan because they make a profit. 

 

Capitalism has its downsides, but it is also the reason why the US was always ahead of Russia. Not rewarding people who do a good job means people are less likely to take risks and invest time and money. 

 

If your talking about people buying up stuff for cheap.. I don't like it but that is how it works. I mean governments should help companies avoid being taken over because of this.  

 

I dont like people taking advantage of unfair practices, but on the other hand i do like it that because of capitalism we got better vaccines and faster too. I don't mind that those who supply it profit from that. Otherwise everyone would have to take vaccines like shinovax and sputnix.

There is profit and there is profit. and I still say that too many people are making too much profit and just taking advantage of this pandemic. I understand what you are saying and you do have a point.

My main gripe is if I wanted to go back to the UK I would have too pay about 4000 bt for a PSR for something that would take very little time to carry out.

I will never accept that the hospitals or pharmacies in that case are fair.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

There is profit and there is profit. and I still say that too many people are making too much profit and just taking advantage of this pandemic. I understand what you are saying and you do have a point.

My main gripe is if I wanted to go back to the UK I would have too pay about 4000 bt for a PSR for something that would take very little time to carry out.

I will never accept that the hospitals or pharmacies in that case are fair.

Possum, that is about the same price (ok a lil cheaper) in the Netherlands. Its not about how much time it takes to carry out. Its about the machine that does the testing, the testing reagents and that kind of stuff. If you have a 1 million (think its much more) machine that does the testing its only normal that part of that is paid for by those that get tested ?

 

If i need an really expensive truck to move your motorcycle, should i then only charge you for my time or also for part of the price of the truck. ?

 

When you were a musician (at least this is how it goes in the Netherlands)  They don't say oh i play one hour that is 100euros lets divide 100 by the number of tickets.

 

No they would include rent for the location, add some extra for other overhead ect. Its not about time, its about all other costs too.

[mommysboy]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

Really? I paid NI contributions for 44 years and I cannot remember the last time I used them, but it was more than 30 years ago.

 

My state pension was frozen at the 2009 rate, the carers allowance was with drawn in 2020, the death benefit was withdrawn a few years ago, but the UK government STILL taxes my pensions and gives me SFA in return.

Spot on!  

 

There has been an attempt in recent years to treat basic benefits as 'a pay as you go' service, ie, you only get the service if you are currently paying in.  But the basic point of it is that the individual generally pays more when younger for something that is often not needed at that time, and then obviously gets the benefit when older as this is the time when it is traditionally most needed.  The elderly farang actually saves the UK government money as no services are consumed at all. I get the impression that some posters would even go further and be quite happy to see pensions withdrawn entirely. 

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

Thank you, that is what i like about the forum, to have an argument based on logic and the facts available. That is what a debate is. That is what i like about it.

 

You call it extorting, i call it making sure you get paid. Have you ever run a company ? Do you know how hard it can be to collect from people ? how much time it takes, that often you have to take losses ? Do you think those things are fair. I am a business owner and the thing I hate most is doing work for people and then not getting paid. 

 

You also realize that its quite common for expats to skip out on bills of hospital and that there have been many cases in the news. So yes they went about it the wrong way but this guy has given them reason too. If they went the legal way they probably would not have been able to collect. Before a court case is final and can be enforced the guy could be back in the UK. 

 

And you say a hospital of all institutions, what does it matter what institution it is, we all deserve to get paid for what we do. 

 

You do understand that hospitals started doing these things as a response to losses occurred by people who skipped out on their bills leaving the hospital without any legal way to enforce it. So its their response to illegal actions of expats / tourists. It certainly is not nice but not having people pay is also bad.

 

You side with the bill skippers, i side with those who want to see money for the service they provided. I think its clear that the service has been provided and the price is not crazy high given the luxurious hotel he stayed in for quarantine. Did the guy have a document from the hospital stating he did not have to pay ? I doubt it. Would you have checked if you had to pay or not and if they say no would you have gotten it in writing ? I think this guy is responsible for his own mistakes.

The point is rob, he had a service foisted upon him and by any stretch it was about as expensive and unreasonable as it could ever be.  He didn't want it for heaven's sake and quite openly stated he couldn't afford it given his present circumstances, which of course involves paying rent and normal life costs.  I would contend that Standard quarantine is not a luxury resort hotel and is free for foreigners too.

 

Think about it- it's an absolutely absurd situation.  

 

I can only say something went horribly wrong in this instance if we take the story at face value.

 

The other points you make about being paid are of course valid and reasonable, but are not relevant given the circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The point is rob, he had a service foisted upon him and by any stretch it was about as expensive and unreasonable as it could ever be.  He didn't want it for heaven's sake and quite openly stated he couldn't afford it given his present circumstances, which of course involves paying rent and normal life costs.  I would contend that Standard quarantine is not a luxury resort hotel and is free for foreigners too.

 

Think about it- it's an absolutely absurd situation.  

 

I can only say something went horribly wrong in this instance if we take the story at face value.

 

The other points you make about being paid are of course valid and reasonable, but are not relevant given the circumstances. 

 

 

I am saying for 1000bt he could have had a years covid insurance. Do you dispute that yes or no ? 

Do you think a 1000 bt would be too much ? if so why is consulting a lawyer and paying 10k not a problem. So I conclude his mistake for not having an insurance.

Mistake 2 is going for the more expensive location (something you agree on)

Mistake 3 is thinking its free and not getting it in writing

Mistake 4 is that he did not know he could be locked up (though i think he knew as he talked with thai friends who said this would be free)

 

So after all these mistakes made by him you still see him as the victim. I find it strange that you feel he did nothing wrong while all those mistakes he made are things that a normal person would have verified. 

Can you explain why you don't take his mistakes into consideration ? Why do you blame the hospital.

 

Plus this report is really bias as there are no comments of the hospital, so even based on these bias facts you still feel he did not do anything wrong. I just don't get it.

 

It seems you feel so much pity and believe all he says its just unreasonable. What ever happened to own responsibility. 

[jerrymahoney]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

 "The small print of the policy is all in Thai so not too sure where I stand re:'Hospitels."  Yes, very typical of insurance companies, small print and legal jargon, to give them excuses not to pay out on claims.

 

I have the RooJai Covid-19 policy. 17 pages all in English

 

Medical treatment from infections    -- Coverage up to 100,000 THB .
Illness with serious conditions or diseases caused by a coronavirus infection  --  Coverage up to 1,000,000 TH