Could, should double vaccination become an entry visa and renewal requirement

[gk10012001]

2 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

So don't admit them if not vaccinated.  Actions have consequences.  If they choose not to be vaccinated, then they have to tough it out

But what about the majority of the Thai population which at the moment is not vaccinated and I doubt they will ever get to 50 %.  Thais tend to not do well at long term things or maintenance and I suspect the vaccination efforts will not increase or will taper off. Time will tell. Will Thai people not be admitted?  How would one judge?  Did they try to get vaxed but could not get appointments, etc?  In any case, the foreigners are a small percentage of the people in Thailand, so I don't see how pointing to foriegners or tourists as causing big ICU issues is that likely. 

[gk10012001]

Really should stop using the words double vaccinated.  The JJ vaccine for example is single dose.  Just to be sure because sometimes words get put into policy and cause problems. 

[Rimmer]

A social media post and a troll GIF have been removed:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

[Jeffr2]

20 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

How many deaths are caused by heart disease?

• Heart disease and its related conditions are the leading cause of death in the United States. Nearly 800,000 people die each year from heart disease and stroke, and at least 200,000 of these deaths are preventable, according to the CDC

That's a terrible comparison. Good gosh.

[Jeffr2]

19 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

But what about the majority of the Thai population which at the moment is not vaccinated and I doubt they will ever get to 50 %.  Thais tend to not do well at long term things or maintenance and I suspect the vaccination efforts will not increase or will taper off. Time will tell. Will Thai people not be admitted?  How would one judge?  Did they try to get vaxed but could not get appointments, etc?  In any case, the foreigners are a small percentage of the people in Thailand, so I don't see how pointing to foriegners or tourists as causing big ICU issues is that likely. 

Thai people are lining up and begging for the vaccine The rich are traveling overseas just to get jabbed. Not sure what you're on about.

 

Edit. Chinese vaccines not included! LOL

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Jeffr2

[placeholder]

21 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

How many deaths are caused by heart disease?

• Heart disease and its related conditions are the leading cause of death in the United States. Nearly 800,000 people die each year from heart disease and stroke, and at least 200,000 of these deaths are preventable, according to the CDC

And how easy is it to reduce the incidence of heart disease compared to being vaccinated? 

Also to judge from mortality figures, vaccination reduces the chances of death by at least 90%. According to that article you cited, only a bit more than 25% of heart disease is preventable.

 

[gk10012001]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Thai people are lining up and begging for the vaccine The rich are traveling overseas just to get jabbed. Not sure what you're on about.

 

Edit. Chinese vaccines not included! LOL

 

I have not seen millions of Thais lining up. I have seen some events.  If Thais were lining up and begging, as you say, I would expect to see a lot more complaining or demonstrating over there.  I don't see much in the Thai media.

[gk10012001]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

And how easy is it to reduce the incidence of heart disease compared to being vaccinated? 

Also to judge from mortality figures, vaccination reduces the chances of death by at least 90%. According to that article you cited, only a bit more than 25% of heart disease is preventable.

 

 given the alleged mortality rate of COVID of let's say in the USA which as of a day or two ago, 727,000 deaths/300,000,000 people = .0023 or about .23 %.  The 25 % voluntary reduction compares pretty well to that.  Now of course, we really don't know how many people had COVID.  I just put in a big population number.   We only know how many cases were confirmed.  But I doubt you will find anybody that thinks 25% of COVID infected people died, even using confirmed case numbers as below.

 

727,000/44,918,000 = .016 or 1.6 %.  Numbers vary from country to country and population group to population group.   Give or take a little bit as I rounded up or down a few digits on the least significant bit end of things

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

[Jeffr2]

21 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

I have not seen millions of Thais lining up. I have seen some events.  If Thais were lining up and begging, as you say, I would expect to see a lot more complaining or demonstrating over there.  I don't see much in the Thai media.

You must not be following the Thai news. It's all over social media. Huge lines, complaining about no jabs, etc. Several days now they've done over 1mm jabs. I'd say that indicates interest! LOL

[Jeffr2]

14 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

 given the alleged mortality rate of COVID of let's say in the USA which as of a day or two ago, 727,000 deaths/300,000,000 people = .0023 or about .23 %.  The 25 % voluntary reduction compares pretty well to that.  Now of course, we really don't know how many people had COVID.  I just put in a big population number.   We only know how many cases were confirmed.  But I doubt you will find anybody that thinks 25% of COVID infected people died, even using confirmed case numbers as below.

 

727,000/44,918,000 = .016 or 1.6 %.  Numbers vary from country to country and population group to population group.   Give or take a little bit as I rounded up or down a few digits on the least significant bit end of things

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Close to 10mm people have now died from Covid. That's significant. Mortality rates tend to be used by deniers. And anti vaxers.

[placeholder]

11 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

 given the alleged mortality rate of COVID of let's say in the USA which as of a day or two ago, 727,000 deaths/300,000,000 people = .0023 or about .23 %.  The 25 % voluntary reduction compares pretty well to that.  Now of course, we really don't know how many people had COVID.  I just put in a big population number.   We only know how many cases were confirmed.  But I doubt you will find anybody that thinks 25% of COVID infected people died, even using confirmed case numbers as below.

 

727,000/44,918,000 = .016 or 1.6 %.  Numbers vary from country to country and population group to population group.   Give or take a little bit as I rounded up or down a few digits on the least significant bit end of things

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Why are you taking that 1.6% as a percentage of those who already died Where does that number come from?

But if you want to do numbers since the vaccine has come on the scene, the death rate for the unvaccinated is vastly higher than those who are vaccinated. Pennsylvania issued a report that showed 97% of its most recent covid deaths were of the unvaccinated. Singapore said the rate was 14 times higher for the unvaccinated. Similar results obtain elsewhere.

What's more, according to the latest study I could find, excess mortality rate was currently running at about 30%. And that was before Covid deaths peaked

.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores-average-baseline?country=~USA

[lucky2008]

42 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Thai people are lining up and begging for the vaccine The rich are traveling overseas just to get jabbed. Not sure what you're on about.

 

 

There you go again with your nonsense.

 

Thais are not "begging" for the vaccine.

 

You're always exaggerating things for real. 


At this stage in the game more than 53% of the world remains unvaccinated. 

I doubt that Thailand is going to shoot themselves in the foot and only allow the vaccinated plebs to enter/live in the country.    

Being vaccinated will not be a pre-condition to travel.  All people have a fundamental right to free movement in the world and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.  Persons who are not vaccinated must be able to exercise their free movement rights the same way as those who are vaccinated, where necessary subject to proportionate limitations such as testing or quarantine/self isolation.  

 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by lucky2008

[Someone Else]

16 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Being vaccinated will not be a pre-condition to travel.  All people have a fundamental right to free movement in the world and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.  Persons who are not vaccinated must be able to exercise their free movement rights the same way as those who are vaccinated, where necessary subject to proportionate limitations such as testing or quarantine/self isolation.  

 

More lies from the anti-vax misinformation peddlers.  Even pre-covid there were plenty of vaccine requirements traveling internationally.

 

https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

[lucky2008]

8 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

 

More lies from the anti-vax misinformation peddlers.  Even pre-covid there were plenty of vaccine requirements traveling internationally.

 

https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf

 

Come on man, we're talking about the COVID-19 vacancies here.  

Stop being such troll.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by lucky2008

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, gk10012001 said:

But what about the majority of the Thai population which at the moment is not vaccinated and I doubt they will ever get to 50 %.  Thais tend to not do well at long term things or maintenance and I suspect the vaccination efforts will not increase or will taper off. Time will tell. Will Thai people not be admitted?  How would one judge?  Did they try to get vaxed but could not get appointments, etc?  In any case, the foreigners are a small percentage of the people in Thailand, so I don't see how pointing to foriegners or tourists as causing big ICU issues is that likely. 

It's overwhelmingly clear that your projection is extremely unlikely to be true. Already, over 48% of Thais have been vaccinated at least once with no sign of a diminution in demand.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/thailand

 

[Someone Else]

1 hour ago, lucky2008 said:

Come on man, we're talking about the COVID-19 vacancies here.  

Stop being such troll.  

You didn't specify covid vaccines, so perhaps you should work on learning how to communicate more clearly before responding so belligerently. 

 

Obviously many countries already requiring vaccination for entry:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffwhitmore/2021/09/02/the-latest-vaccine-requirements-for-travel/?sh=2286a34d4d6e

 

Even the US, global epicenter of antivax Inc., will soon require vaccination for entry:

 

https://bb.usembassy.gov/new-vaccine-requirement-for-international-travelers-to-the-united-states/#:~:text=New Vaccine Requirement for International Travelers to the United States,-Home | News %26 Events&text=As announced by the White,a U.S.-bound international flight.

 

Your statements have been demonstrated to be false.... so who's trolling??

Edited October 11, 2021 by Someone Else

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, gk10012001 said:

I have not seen millions of Thais lining up. I have seen some events.  If Thais were lining up and begging, as you say, I would expect to see a lot more complaining or demonstrating over there.  I don't see much in the Thai media.

Then you obviously do not look to hard in order to see much, read the Thai papers, or watch the daily news then do you. Protests are daily guess you need to add the Thai Live Facebook news to your social media.  

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, lucky2008 said:

There you go again with your nonsense.

 

Thais are not "begging" for the vaccine.

 

You're always exaggerating things for real. 


At this stage in the game more than 53% of the world remains unvaccinated. 

I doubt that Thailand is going to shoot themselves in the foot and only allow the vaccinated plebs to enter/live in the country.    

Being vaccinated will not be a pre-condition to travel.  All people have a fundamental right to free movement in the world and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.  Persons who are not vaccinated must be able to exercise their free movement rights the same way as those who are vaccinated, where necessary subject to proportionate limitations such as testing or quarantine/self isolation.  

 

 

 

 

Being vaccinated is already becoming a pre-condition to travel on airlines here in Thailand as well as the entrance to Phuket and the Sandbox areas.  Try again.  Changes being made daily, and plenty of Thai's are lining up to be vaccinated.  Add in the fact that the children above 12 must be vaccinated to attend school starting n November indicates you do not follow the trends here much.  Try reading the Thai newspapers, the opinion OP-Eds, and then watch the Thai news to see things occurring such as protests. If that is not good enough for you then add a group on your Facebook that shows Thailand Live News such as (5) TOP News | Facebook.

 

Look at this OP running now as well

https://aseannow.com/topic/1234856-only-fully-vaccinated-or-covid-19-negative-passengers-allowed-to-take-flights-in-thailand/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-1688938

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/covid-vaccines-required-for-travel-unvaccinated-people-dont-like-it.html

Edited October 11, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[lucky2008]

11 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

You didn't specify covid vaccines, so perhaps you should work on learning how to communicate more clearly before responding so belligerently. 

 

Obviously many countries already requiring vaccination for entry:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffwhitmore/2021/09/02/the-latest-vaccine-requirements-for-travel/?sh=2286a34d4d6e

 

And as previously demonstrated vaccine requirements are nothing new.  Your statements have been demonstrated to be false.... so who's trolling??

Hello!?! The thread is called "Could, should double vaccination become an entry visa and renewal requirement"

Maybe you should have used some common sense before replying back to me.

Anyways, we are talking about the COVID vaccines, and if double vaccination will become an entry and visa renewal requirement. 

If Asia follows what the European Union is doing with it's Digital COVID Certificates the answer is NO.  

Unvaccinated people will not be denied entry for essential travel.  

[Someone Else]

 

26 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Hello!?! The thread is called "Could, should double vaccination become an entry visa and renewal requirement"

And I provided many examples of countries requiring "double vaccination" (assuming by that you mean a full dose) for entry, including European countries, here are more examples similar to the last list you ignored:  https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/which-eu-countries-permit-entry-for-fully-vaccinated-travellers-so-far/

 

This disproves your statement, where you alleged this is not the case.  It already is a pre-condition to travel to many countries in the present.  Again here is your statement:

 

2 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

Being vaccinated will not be a pre-condition to travel.  All people have a fundamental right to free movement in the world and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.  Persons who are not vaccinated must be able to exercise their free movement rights the same way as those who are vaccinated, where necessary subject to proportionate limitations such as testing or quarantine/self isolation.  

I further demonstrated that your alleged "fundamental right" to travel unvaccinated is nonexistent in the real world.

 

[lucky2008]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Being vaccinated is already becoming a pre-condition to travel on airlines here in Thailand as well as the entrance to Phuket and the Sandbox areas.  Try again.  Changes being made daily, and plenty of Thai's are lining up to be vaccinated.  Add in the fact that the children above 12 must be vaccinated to attend school starting n November indicates you do not follow the trends here much.  Try reading the Thai newspapers, the opinion OP-Eds, and then watch the Thai news to see things occurring such as protests. If that is not good enough for you then add a group on your Facebook that shows Thailand Live News such as (5) TOP News | Facebook.

 

Look at this OP running now as well

https://aseannow.com/topic/1234856-only-fully-vaccinated-or-covid-19-negative-passengers-allowed-to-take-flights-in-thailand/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-1688938

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/covid-vaccines-required-for-travel-unvaccinated-people-dont-like-it.html

Unvaccinated individuals can fly on any airline that they want domestically without having to be vaccinated.  Even if they wanted to go to Phuket and the sandbox areas all they need to do is show a negative COVID test and quarantine in a AS hotel for 10 days. (This also applies for unvaccinated international travelers) 

As for the 72 hours COVID test before taking a flight this is not true. You can get on any domestic plane without being vaccinated. The MOPH administers free ATK tests upon arrival at most of the airports across Thailand. They then require all unvaccinated individuals to quarantine at home for 14 days at home (this only applies when coming from red zones)  For arrival into BKK and DMK testing and quarantine is not required.   

Feel free to call 1422 (Department of Disease Control Hotline) and ask them yourself. 

It is also not a MUST that children over the age of 12 get vaccinated.  I know because I have teenage children of my own attending school here.  The government is providing the Pfizer vaccine for students from 12 to 17 years old on a "voluntary basis." 

Come on now, the pro-democracy movement is about more than just a criticized vaccine program.  

[ThailandRyan]

19 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

 

And I provided many examples of countries requiring "double vaccination" (assuming by that you mean a full dose) for entry, including European countries, here are more examples similar to the last list you ignored:  https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/which-eu-countries-permit-entry-for-fully-vaccinated-travellers-so-far/

 

This disproves your statement, where you alleged this is not the case.  It already is a pre-condition to travel to many countries in the present.  Again here is your statement:

 

I further demonstrated that your alleged "fundamental right" to travel unvaccinated is nonexistent in the real world.

 

Unfortunately it does not fit the posters agenda you or I responded to to comment on the real facts regarding traveling as it is now or will possibly become.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, lucky2008 said:

Unvaccinated individuals can fly on any airline that they want domestically without having to be vaccinated.  Even if they wanted to go to Phuket and the sandbox areas all they need to do is show a negative COVID test and quarantine in a AS hotel for 10 days. (This also applies for unvaccinated international travelers) 

As for the 72 hours COVID test before taking a flight this is not true. You can get on any domestic plane without being vaccinated. The MOPH administers free ATK tests upon arrival at most of the airports across Thailand. They then require all unvaccinated individuals to quarantine at home for 14 days at home (this only applies when coming from red zones)  For arrival into BKK and DMK testing and quarantine is not required.   

Feel free to call 1422 (Department of Disease Control Hotline) and ask them yourself. 

It is also not a MUST that children over the age of 12 get vaccinated.  I know because I have teenage children of my own attending school here.  The government is providing the Pfizer vaccine for students from 12 to 17 years old on a "voluntary basis." 

Come on now, the pro-democracy movement is about more than just a criticized vaccine program.  

There you have it Quarrantine for 10 days.  That is not traveling freely according to your previous quote and post now is it.  To travel unrestricted you need to be vaccinated.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Unvaccinated individuals can fly on any airline that they want domestically without having to be vaccinated.  Even if they wanted to go to Phuket and the sandbox areas all they need to do is show a negative COVID test and quarantine in a AS hotel for 10 days. (This also applies for unvaccinated international travelers) 

As for the 72 hours COVID test before taking a flight this is not true. You can get on any domestic plane without being vaccinated. The MOPH administers free ATK tests upon arrival at most of the airports across Thailand. They then require all unvaccinated individuals to quarantine at home for 14 days at home (this only applies when coming from red zones)  For arrival into BKK and DMK testing and quarantine is not required.   

Feel free to call 1422 (Department of Disease Control Hotline) and ask them yourself. 

It is also not a MUST that children over the age of 12 get vaccinated.  I know because I have teenage children of my own attending school here.  The government is providing the Pfizer vaccine for students from 12 to 17 years old on a "voluntary basis." 

Come on now, the pro-democracy movement is about more than just a criticized vaccine program.  

You really believe yourself don't you.  I wish you luck on travelling freely as you state is a "fundamental right"

[lucky2008]

19 minutes ago, Someone Else said:

I further demonstrated that your alleged "fundamental right" to travel unvaccinated is nonexistent in the real world.

 

Not sure what world you're living in, but here see for yourself. 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/eu-citizenship/movement-and-residence/eu-digital-covid-certificate-vaccinations-and-travel-restrictions_en

*Being unvaccinated is not be a pre-condition to travel. All EU citizens have a fundamental right to free movement in the EU and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, lucky2008 said:

Not sure what world you're living in, but here see for yourself. 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/eu-citizenship/movement-and-residence/eu-digital-covid-certificate-vaccinations-and-travel-restrictions_en

*Being unvaccinated is not be a pre-condition to travel. All EU citizens have a fundamental right to free movement in the EU and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.

 

Again your picking just one area and now that is the EU, however it does not apply to here, or many other destinations, so try again or better yet just give it a rest as in order to do many things you will either need to prove you are vaccinated, have a waiver, and then be tested and quarantined if unvaxxed.  Not free travel now is it.

[Someone Else]

3 minutes ago, lucky2008 said:

Not sure what world you're living in, but here see for yourself. 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/justice-and-fundamental-rights/eu-citizenship/movement-and-residence/eu-digital-covid-certificate-vaccinations-and-travel-restrictions_en

*Being unvaccinated is not be a pre-condition to travel. All EU citizens have a fundamental right to free movement in the EU and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.

 

That's for Europeans traveling WITHIN EUROPE.  Entering outside of EU is another case, and your statement pertained to international travel:

 

2 hours ago, Someone Else said:

All people have a fundamental right to free movement in the world and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.  

Apples and oranges.  Again, this "fundamental right" you allege does not exist in the real world, which is the world I'm living in (since you weren't sure).

 

Further, many countries (in the real world) already have covid vaccine requirements, and others are in the process of implementation like the US.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, lucky2008 said:

There you go again with your nonsense.

 

Thais are not "begging" for the vaccine.

 

You're always exaggerating things for real. 


At this stage in the game more than 53% of the world remains unvaccinated. 

I doubt that Thailand is going to shoot themselves in the foot and only allow the vaccinated plebs to enter/live in the country.    

Being vaccinated will not be a pre-condition to travel.  All people have a fundamental right to free movement in the world and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not.  Persons who are not vaccinated must be able to exercise their free movement rights the same way as those who are vaccinated, where necessary subject to proportionate limitations such as testing or quarantine/self isolation.  

 

 

 

 

My Thai wife just said that you are clueless. Everyone she knows is begging for for the vaccine.

 

Stop trolling.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Someone Else said:

 

More lies from the anti-vax misinformation peddlers.  Even pre-covid there were plenty of vaccine requirements traveling internationally.

https://www.who.int/ith/2016-ith-county-list.pdf

As far as I can see it was only ever for Yellow fever, and even then for countries no sane person would ever want to visit. I went all over the world with no vaccinations (except whooping cough, polio and tetanus given me when I was too young to say no)

Edited October 11, 2021 by BritManToo

[lucky2008]

36 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Again your picking just one area and now that is the EU, however it does not apply to here, or many other destinations, so try again or better yet just give it a rest as in order to do many things you will either need to prove you are vaccinated, have a waiver, and then be tested and quarantined if unvaxxed.  Not free travel now is it.

I'm not 'picking an area' On my previous post I said, " If Asia follows what the European Union is doing with it's Digital COVID Certificates the answer is NO.  Double vaccination will not become an entry or visa requirement.

I've been travelling for the past 18 months (restrictions allowing) and it isn't as bad you you might think it is.  In fact, I'll be flying in the next couple days so I'll make sure to tell you how it goes. 

I don't have any issue being tested or quarantined if it means I don't have to be injected.