Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

[webfact]

 

Seems a long time ago that tennis star Novak Djokovic had his visa to enter Australia dramatically revoked and he was deported.

 

Djokovic has not spoken about his vaccination status in detail, but last year he said he was "opposed to vaccination".

 

You may remember that most governments last year, at the height of the pandemic were all playing it tough.

 

For example, in Thailand, it became difficult to enter a restaurant or hotel without showing your full vaccination information on a government app.

Last December Vietnam’s Prime Minister Pham Minh Chinh called for punishing people who refuse to be vaccinated without valid reasons.

 

At a meeting with the National Steering Committee for Covid-19 Prevention and Control, he said authorities should convince people to get immunized, and consider banning people from leaving their home or making them pay the treatment fees if they contract Covid if they refuse the shots.

In the Philippines, they adopted a No Vax No Ride POLICY IN Manila, and the President was quoted saying if the unvaccinated did not stay at home they would be jailed.

“Our goals were for a safe adaptation to the pandemic with a focus on reducing community transmission and severe cases and death”, he said.

 

With the world trying to cope with this unique pandemic, should we risk letting people like Novak Djokovic continue to stick to his principles of not being vaccinated, while still wishing to roam free?

Certainly, with most countries starting to stockpile vaccines, one assumes they are a lot better prepared for any further Covid waves.

I can also understand why many have decided not to sit in line and take a vaccine that is still awaiting long-term test results.

Naturally, society may be able to accept their position, however, it will be a lot more expensive for some time for unvaccinated people to move around, check into hotels or board a plane.

It will be up to immigration at airports, hotels, or airlines policies if they can stay or fly.

It is a difficult dilemma. 

What do you think is the correct route to take?

 

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[RandiRona]

Yes, people have right to decide what is right for them. I am not against vaccination and double vaccinated but I decide what I take and what I wont. Please respect other people decision to not take it for whatever reason. They are still human.

[alextrat1966]

4 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

Yes, people have right to decide what is right for them. I am not against vaccination and double vaccinated but I decide what I take and what I wont. Please respect other people decision to not take it for whatever reason. They are still human.

Sure, everyone has the right not to take the vaccine. But so do business owners have the right not to let unvaccinated people enter their businesses, or fly aboard their airplanes, and so do countries have the right not to let the unvaccinated enter. 

 

Any choice you make in life, has consequences (no matter in regards to vaccines or not). If you freely make a choice, you must manly take the consequences. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by alextrat1966

[freedomnow]

What about natural immunity after infection non-vaccinated status.....

 

....seems to count for nothing or barely be mentioned.

[RandiRona]

1 hour ago, alextrat1966 said:

Sure, everyone has the right not to take the vaccine. But so do business owners have the right not to let unvaccinated people enter their businesses, or fly aboard their airplanes, and so do countries have the right not to let the unvaccinated enter. 

 

Any choice you make in life, has consequences (no matter in regards to vaccines or not). If you freely make a choice, you must manly take the consequences. 

Do private businesses have a right to decide who to serve or not ? Have you heard about "No Shirt, No Shoe, No Service"  ? Yes they can decide if its reasonable and within defined social norms but what you are suggesting is discrimination based on the choice people are making for their health and well being. There are consequences for everything but you cant make an Idea surrender by force , people still might.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by RandiRona

[RichardColeman]

Some point we just have to modify this entire mess to just monitored lateral flows at the airport for a year or so, then drop it completely. 

[talahtnut]

After the UK Prime Ministers partygate fiasco it appears that

all the 'high up' people in government have no fear of the deadly covid 19.

Unsurprisingly, restrictions are now mostly lifted for the people,

 

[kotsak]

1 hour ago, freedomnow said:

What about natural immunity after infection non-vaccinated status.....

 

....seems to count for nothing or barely be mentioned.

That doesn't make any money so lets keep it under wraps.. ????

[it is what it is]

2 hours ago, alextrat1966 said:

Sure, everyone has the right not to take the vaccine. But so do business owners have the right not to let unvaccinated people enter their businesses, or fly aboard their airplanes, and so do countries have the right not to let the unvaccinated enter. 

 

Any choice you make in life, has consequences (no matter in regards to vaccines or not). If you freely make a choice, you must manly take the consequences. 

absolutely, everyone has the right to choose, however they should also be prepared to accept that sometimes, in life, choices made have consequences.

[bluejets]

I think those that don't get vaccinated are just a bunch of <deleted> with no thought for anyone but themselves.

Eventually I believe they will reconsider, as it already has become, no vaccination, no air travel, no visiting age care facilities, not allowed on public transport etc. etc.

 

[ezzra]

Sure, everyone has the right to decide what they put into their bodies but let them not complain if they are being treated differently and with extreme cations than the rest of the population who have been following guidelines and recommendations of the government and the medical professionals...

[JayClay]

3 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Do private businesses have a right to decide who to serve or not ? Have you heard about "No Shirt, No Shoe, No Service"  ? Yes they can decide if its reasonable and within defined social norms but what you are suggesting is discrimination based on the choice people are making for their health and well being

Are you seriously suggesting that a dress code, a purely aesthetic policy, has more merit than a policy designed to save lives of staff and fellow patrons?

 

If people want to make misguided choices for "their health and well being" that's fine. But when science says that those have a negative impact on those around them, then businesses owners absolutely have the right to deny entry to such people.

[khunjeff]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

For example, in Thailand, it became difficult to enter a restaurant or hotel without showing your full vaccination information on a government app.

This is just factually untrue. I stayed in numerous hotels over the last six months and was never asked to show a vaccination record. Three restaurants over that period required that I show proof of vaccination - dozens of others did not. So yes, the phenomenon did exist, but no, it wasn't common, and it certainly was never "difficult to enter" the average public place.

 

4 hours ago, webfact said:

I can also understand why many have decided not to sit in line and take a vaccine that is still awaiting long-term test results.

This falls into the category of "I do my own research" - i.e., I watch quacks on YouTube, and then endanger my own health and that of people around me based on my own poor understanding of a subject I know nothing about.

[SiSePuede419]

"If a traveler staying at their hotel tests positive, the guest has no choice but to be hospitalized at that specific hospital for 7-10 days at their own cost – usually around 10.000"

 

Since when?

 

I thought you could stay in the hotel? My AQH hotel had a lower rate for an extended stay.

 

Stay until you test negative, then go.

 

Lot cheaper than a private hospital.

[RandiRona]

31 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Are you seriously suggesting that a dress code, a purely aesthetic policy, has more merit than a policy designed to save lives of staff and fellow patrons

No , I was merely suggesting that a private business has right to deny service in certain scenarios but they cant discriminate based on health and* life style choices people make, like they cant deny service to an Arab wrapped in drape or an alphabet requesting a cake.

 

31 minutes ago, JayClay said:

when science says

This is where the problem is, if I have told you that for all variants of flu , you have to take same shot , every six months, would you have taken it? Then why for every different variant of Covid, alpha, beta delta, omicron, there is same shot ...every six months? At some point of time you have to start thinking why and what? Nothing different from when you move from one doctor to another when you think first one doesn't have your best interest in mind, both are qualified though. I know it's very political,  what I am saying is let's not vilify people choices. People are right to choose for themselves , even if those choices are wrong from your's perspective.

Edited February 4, 2022 by RandiRona

[IAMHERE]

Darn; I have to live amongst those without a 3rd or 4th booster. Covid roulette out there folks, be careful.

[Expat68]

The way I look at it is that it has been proven that being vaccinated reduces the chances of you going into hospital if you have the virus (my relatives and friends in the UK recovered at home) so that keeps a bed free for more urgent cases

[JayBird]

5 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Yes, people have right to decide what is right for them. I am not against vaccination and double vaccinated but I decide what I take and what I wont. Please respect other people decision to not take it for whatever reason. They are still human.

This is not a 'right' in all countries.

 

If you want this right, and are in a country that does not offer this right, you have to comply or leave.

[ozimoron]

5 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Yes, people have right to decide what is right for them. I am not against vaccination and double vaccinated but I decide what I take and what I wont. Please respect other people decision to not take it for whatever reason. They are still human.

The problem here is that with an infectious disease, deciding what's best for them means also putting others at risk. It's a lot like drunk driving.

[JayBird]

5 hours ago, freedomnow said:

What about natural immunity after infection non-vaccinated status.....

 

....seems to count for nothing or barely be mentioned.

Natural immunity helps you survive, but does not stop you from spreading the virus to someone else.

 

That someone else might have a weak or compromised immune system.

 

Same as how the flu travels everywhere, despite our natural immunity.  except covid travels much easier and hits a lot harder.

[ozimoron]

20 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Darn; I have to live amongst those without a 3rd or 4th booster. Covid roulette out there folks, be careful.

Stop trolling. No country or doctor has ever said we need a third or fourth booster.

[RandiRona]

1 minute ago, JayBird said:

 

If you want this right, and are in a country that does not offer this right, you have to comply or leave.

Thank you for your advice, That's why I don't live in North Korea, China or any socio-communist country. If you really want autocratic govt to decide what's right for you then you are staring at Gulag or re education camps. But I know you are as safe as I am.

Stay safe my friend!

[rwill]

About 500,000 people die every year from influenza.  We manage to live and accept that without worrying about if people are getting their annual vaccination or not.

Covid will be the same.

[RandiRona]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The problem here is that with an infectious disease, deciding what's best for them means also putting others at risk. It's a lot like drunk driving.

I am not disagreeing,  just saying that you might have some friends who drink and drive , that makes them irresponsible and threat to people on road but you still meet them, invite them and socialize. Dividing people on choices people make(right or wrong) is always a clever card politicians play. Let's not fight someone else's war.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Do private businesses have a right to decide who to serve or not ? Have you heard about "No Shirt, No Shoe, No Service"  ? Yes they can decide if its reasonable and within defined social norms but what you are suggesting is discrimination based on the choice people are making for their health and well being. There are consequences for everything but you cant make an Idea surrender by force , people still might.

 

Yes, people have a right to make decisions regarding their health and well being.  And businesses have a right and responsibility to decide on how best to keep their employees and customers safe.  When there is a pandemic caused by a dangerous and highly contagious virus the responsible decision is to require vaccinations for those entering a crowded business.  People who choose not to get vaccinated have to live with this.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, RandiRona said:

I am not disagreeing,  just saying that you might have some friends who drink and drive , that makes them irresponsible and threat to people on road but you still meet them, invite them and socialize. Dividing people on choices people make(right or wrong) is always a clever card politicians play. Let's not fight someone else's war.

It's not a clever card, it's what the expert medical advice says. The Australian government tried populism over medical advice and now they are publicly eating crow. Matters of pandemic policy should always be follow the experts and never made political. Australia has also seen covid policy dived along partisan lines and that isn't good for the country.

[IAMHERE]

10 minutes ago, JayBird said:

Natural immunity helps you survive, but does not stop you from spreading the virus to someone else.

That is what is being said about the vaccine immunity, now. Didn't make that clear and plain when they first rolled out those vaccines.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, IAMHERE said:

That is what is being said about the vaccine immunity, now. Didn't make that clear and plain when they first rolled out those vaccines.

They didn't know when they first rolled out those vaccines. In the case of omicron there is little to no immunity against infection whether natural or not.

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

What do you think is the correct route to take?

If you want to travel get vaccinated...

If you want to stay home don't bother.

[RandiRona]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It's not a clever card, it's what the expert medical advice says. The Australian government tried populism over medical advice and now they are publicly eating crow. Matters of pandemic policy should always be follow the experts and never made political. Australia has also seen covid policy dived along partisan lines and that isn't good for the country.

Agree, The silver lining from this pandemic is it showed that how ill prepared and divided we are it's hard to get consensus on decisions and society is divided on partisan lines. Hope some learning from this world can utilize to make things better for everyone. Now Pfizer tablet Paxlovid is available for treatment after the fact so I guess worse is behind us.

Edited February 4, 2022 by RandiRona