Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 7/7/2022 at 10:41 PM, TacoKhun said:

Do you understand back then that Russia was not considered to be a threat to Ukraine, but NATO was. So the memorandum was to protect Ukraine from NATO aggression in the 1st place, also this is why the US insisted on transferring NW to Russia.

That's absolutely and categorically untrue.  As@Bkk Brianhas pointed out.

 

At the time of the memorandum, Ukraine was already in a partnership with NATO.

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[CharlieH]

Reported insult removed. Attacking another member is a sure fire way to be removed

 

9. You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages. You will respect other members and post in a civil manner. Personal attacks, insults or hate speech posted on the forum or sent by private message are not allowed.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, JetsetBkk said:

Not so long, apparently. ????

UK's aid is provided with cross party support and there's unlikely to be any change to the commitment it shows in helping Ukraine defeat Putin's objectives.

 

This is bigger than just one figurehead in the UK. 

 

"the policy on Ukraine is unlikely to shift. It would defy all logic for any successor to Johnson to behave differently or pursue a politics that shifted from that,” he said, and one of the first calls of the new prime minister will likely be to Mr. Zelensky, and one of the first visits to Kyiv."

 

Britain has been training hundreds of Ukrainian troops, with new weapons being provided by the UK for their fight with Russia.

The training has been taking place over the past few weeks in south-west England's Wiltshire county.

The Ukrainians have been learning how to use the British Army's Multiple Rocket Launcher System (MLRS) which has a range of more than 80km (50 miles).

 

In its current form, the scheme would see around 600 soldiers extracted from Ukraine every three weeks for an intensive course on ‘battle winning skills for the front line, basic medical training, cyber-security and counter explosive tactics’.

This makes it around ten times bigger than the last scheme of its kind, when British Army officers were welcomed into Ukraine in 2015 in response to Putin’s illegal annexation of Crimea.

 

[coolcarer]

16 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Russian McDonalds runs short of french fries. And Coke.
 

https://guardian.ng/news/russian-mcdonalds-runs-short-of-french-fries/

Things must be getting tough, no chips in McDonald’s and now compulsory overtime for some ????

 

Russia’s parliament on Wednesday (6 July) rushed through two bills imposing strict controls on the economy, requiring businesses to supply goods to the armed forces and obliging employees at some firms to work overtime.

Once signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, the bills will allow the government to introduce “special economic measures” during what the Kremlin calls its “special military operation” in Ukraine.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/russians-requested-to-work-overtime-under-bills-imposing-wartime-controls/

 

[Rimmer]

US to send more HIMARS precision rockets to Ukraine

WASHINGTON — The United States is sending to Ukraine up to $400 million in additional military equipment and supplies, including four more medium-range rocket systems and ammunition, as the embattled nation tries to repel Russia’s advances in the Donbas region.

The four additional M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, will bring the total number sent to Ukraine to a dozen, a senior defense official told reporters in a briefing Friday. The official said the first eight HIMARS were particularly useful for Ukraine, as the fight in the Donbas has largely evolved into an artillery duel. The official refuted Russian reports that two of the delivered HIMARS were destroyed, and said all eight are accounted for and still in use by Ukraine.

The military equipment being drawn down from U.S. stockpiles and sent to Ukraine also includes three tactical vehicles, demolition munitions, counter-battery systems and spare parts, among other equipment, so Ukraine can repair and maintain other systems that allies have sent in recent months.

See more:

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/07/08/us-to-send-more-himars-precision-rockets-to-ukraine/

[JetsetBkk]

If you were to Google: War in Ukraine: Luhansk has fallen - what's to expect? - YouTube

...you will see listed a report by Colonel Markus Reisner of the Austrian Military Academy in Wiener Neustadt,  a city located south of Vienna.

I hope this post doesn't break any rules, if it does please delete it.

 

[Bkk Brian]

What was it Putin said, Russian's military has not even started yet?

 

Russian prisoners with combat experience are reportedly being taken out of prisons in Nizhny Novgorod and Mordovia to fight in Ukraine.

 

From the UK Ministry of Defense

Despite President Putin’s claim on 07 July 2022 that the Russian military has ‘not even started’ its efforts in Ukraine, many of its reinforcements are ad hoc groupings, deploying with obsolete or inappropriate equipment.

 

[Bkk Brian]

Ukraine targets Russia’s ammunition depots, undermining its artillery advantage

 

Now that Ukraine has acquired advanced Western artillery and rocket systems, it has gradually begun a campaign to take out Russia’s key military infrastructure. Over the last four weeks, nearly 20 Russian ammunition depots in Russian-occupied Donbas and Ukraine’s south, including some of the largest, have been hit or completely destroyed. 

 

Devastating strikes upon Russian command posts have become increasingly frequent since mid-June when Ukraine began using the first of four M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, provided by the U.S., nearly a week before their arrival in Ukraine was publicly announced. 

 

Russia's challenges with arms resupply mean that the Kremlin is quickly approaching a point at which it will have to choose between either de-escalating its war or further escalating the conflict with help from other states before Russia becomes too weak:

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ukraine targets Russia’s ammunition depots, undermining its artillery advantage

 

Now that Ukraine has acquired advanced Western artillery and rocket systems, it has gradually begun a campaign to take out Russia’s key military infrastructure. Over the last four weeks, nearly 20 Russian ammunition depots in Russian-occupied Donbas and Ukraine’s south, including some of the largest, have been hit or completely destroyed. 

 

Devastating strikes upon Russian command posts have become increasingly frequent since mid-June when Ukraine began using the first of four M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, provided by the U.S., nearly a week before their arrival in Ukraine was publicly announced. 

 

Russia's challenges with arms resupply mean that the Kremlin is quickly approaching a point at which it will have to choose between either de-escalating its war or further escalating the conflict with help from other states before Russia becomes too weak:

The 'feel good' news of the week!

[Mavideol]

13 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ukraine targets Russia’s ammunition depots, undermining its artillery advantage

 

Now that Ukraine has acquired advanced Western artillery and rocket systems, it has gradually begun a campaign to take out Russia’s key military infrastructure. Over the last four weeks, nearly 20 Russian ammunition depots in Russian-occupied Donbas and Ukraine’s south, including some of the largest, have been hit or completely destroyed. 

 

Devastating strikes upon Russian command posts have become increasingly frequent since mid-June when Ukraine began using the first of four M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, provided by the U.S., nearly a week before their arrival in Ukraine was publicly announced. 

 

Russia's challenges with arms resupply mean that the Kremlin is quickly approaching a point at which it will have to choose between either de-escalating its war or further escalating the conflict with help from other states before Russia becomes too weak:

Imagine what would happen if the west would not be sending billions to feed Russia war machine, North Ireland is a good example showing the flaws of an old UK law for limited corporations ownership, worth looking at the video that was on last night ob BBC World News from 00.30 Am  to 1.00 Am ........  From Russia with Blood

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001988h

 

[Saanim]

16 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

What was it Putin said, Russian's military has not even started yet?

 

Russian prisoners with combat experience are reportedly being taken out of prisons in Nizhny Novgorod and Mordovia to fight in Ukraine.

Did the Russians learn from Ukrainians? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-army-russia-prisoners-jail-b2024985.html

Not sure whether this source is so reliable as the one about the Russian prisoners...

 

 

[transam]

An interesting vid with a Russian guy, listen to what he says....From a reliable source, at news, FRANCE 24. 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Did the Russians learn from Ukrainians? 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-army-russia-prisoners-jail-b2024985.html

Not sure whether this source is so reliable as the one about the Russian prisoners...

Very sensible move by the Ukrainian's back on the third day of the unprovoked attack on them.

 

However it was not them that stated after 136 days of the war that "they've not even started yet" then go onto roll out ad hoc groups of men with equipment originally designed in the 1950s as a tractor to pull artillery, has very limited armour, and only mounts a machine gun for protection.

 

No that was master strategist, Vlad Putin

 

By the way thank him for his mounting good will gestures. So far 30 HIMARS strikes on Russian Ammunition Depots, Command Centers, Transportation Hubs, and Oil Depots

[Saanim]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Very sensible move by the Ukrainian's back on the third day of the unprovoked attack on them.

Quite amazing to know that it was "very sensible move" by the Ukrainians, unlike such a "move" by Russians. 

 

Anyway, we did not get any reliable source that the Russians would open their prisons, I doubt that they were so stupid.  Besides, do you really believe the  news of the "reliable" sources? (Putin collapsing, his forces collapsing, Putin's double, etc. , but the Ukrainians retreat to the planned locations).

 

On the other hand, the Ukrainians have needed to clear their prisons to make them free for the many opposition people.  

    

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Quite amazing to know that it was "very sensible move" by the Ukrainians, unlike such a "move" by Russians. 

 

Anyway, we did not get any reliable source that the Russians would open their prisons, I doubt that they were so stupid.  Besides, do you really believe the  news of the "reliable" sources? (Putin collapsing, his forces collapsing, Putin's double, etc. , but the Ukrainians retreat to the planned locations).

 

On the other hand, the Ukrainians have needed to clear their prisons to make them free for the many opposition people.  

    

Nobody claimed the Russians opened up their prisons? Nobody claimed the Ukrainians opened up their prisons? ????

 

Prisoners with combat experience only...............................

 

Russian prisoners offered £2,800 and freedom if they serve in Ukraine - and come back alive

The recruitment drive comes amid reports Russia will face shortage of troops if it does not declare a mass mobilisation

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/07/05/russian-prisoners-offered-2800-freedom-serve-ukraine-come/

Edited July 10, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Saanim]

It's quite difficult to know nowadays what's a "reliable source" when we do not get it from all sides.  I just hope that it is not like this "news" that was shown by many (not only) in UK:

https://www.newsweek.com/photo-obese-russian-general-pavel-putins-army-prompts-speculation-1719470

 

also:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19003310/putin-calls-obese-20st-retired-general-lead-troops-ukraine/

 

Somewhere I am now reading that the fat man is a Russian veteran Ivan Ivanovich Turchin, (not general mayor Pavel) retired 2011 after 20 years service at Uzbekistan frontier, nothing indicates that he is in Ukraine.

The photo was taken at a celebration day of border guards in May at Russian city Elan.

 

 

[coolcarer]

40 minutes ago, Saanim said:

It's quite difficult to know nowadays what's a "reliable source" when we do not get it from all sides.  I just hope that it is not like this "news" that was shown by many (not only) in UK:

https://www.newsweek.com/photo-obese-russian-general-pavel-putins-army-prompts-speculation-1719470

 

also:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19003310/putin-calls-obese-20st-retired-general-lead-troops-ukraine/

 

Somewhere I am now reading that the fat man is a Russian veteran Ivan Ivanovich Turchin, (not general mayor Pavel) retired 2011 after 20 years service at Uzbekistan frontier, nothing indicates that he is in Ukraine.

The photo was taken at a celebration day of border guards in May at Russian city Elan.

 

 

A dodgy article originating from the Daily Star in the UK that went viral about the extremely overweight general is hardly on par with the constant deluge of conspiracy theories and pure lies put out by Russian state media and officials with the disgusting denials of Bucha to name just one. 
 

But hey knock yourself out with your false equivalence.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Interesting opinion about the war here:

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2022/07/russias_will_to_win_in_ukraine.html

 

The warmongers and propaganda trolls won't like it, but it seems aligned to the reality.

 

Conspiracy theory nonsense but agree the Russian war mongers and trolls love it. Tuck up well and enjoy some of your bedtime reading.

 

Even the conclusion from the article is wrong:

"Other things being roughly equal (as they are in this war), victory in war goes to the side with the greater commitment and willingness to suffer.  Russia has the greater will in this war.  And it knows how to suffer.  Therefore, it wins."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/

 

[gearbox]

10 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Which reality would that be?

The reality that the Russians are not going to lose this war...if Ukraine somehow starts winning there are tactical nuclear weapons to change the outcome.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The reality that the Russians are not going to lose this war...if Ukraine somehow starts winning there are tactical nuclear weapons to change the outcome.

If that happens that's not Russia winning, its the whole world losing including Russia

[gearbox]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Conspiracy theory nonsense but agree the Russian war mongers and trolls love it. Tuck up well and enjoy some of your bedtime reading.

 

Even the conclusion from the article is wrong:

"Other things being roughly equal (as they are in this war), victory in war goes to the side with the greater commitment and willingness to suffer.  Russia has the greater will in this war.  And it knows how to suffer.  Therefore, it wins."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/american-thinker/

 

The conclusion of the article is the author's personal opinion, nothing else. And the conclusion that he is wrong is your opinion, nothing else.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, gearbox said:

The conclusion of the article is the author's personal opinion, nothing else. And the conclusion that he is wrong is your opinion, nothing else.

Not just my opinion, one stated many times by numerous sources about the Ukraines will to win this war. Of course you won't read that in your conspiracy site. 

[gearbox]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

If that happens that's not Russia winning, its the whole world losing including Russia

True..but I personally have no intention to finish my life like this, because of a war in some remote part of the world which can go nuclear.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

True..but I personally have no intention to finish my life like this, because of a war in some remote part of the world which can go nuclear.

Tell that to Russia who started it

[gearbox]

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Tell that to Russia who started it

If nuclear weapons are used it won't matter at all who started it, the outcome would be disastrous. Even if only Russia uses nuclear weapons without any strike back from the west, this would still ruin the world for generations.

 

People tend to forget that these two countries were under communist rule for many years. The human life doesn't matter much there. There are probably tons of crazy heads behind the scene at the Russian side. Hardened ex communists taught from the cradle that the only thing important is to win.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, gearbox said:

If nuclear weapons are used it won't matter at all who started it, the outcome would be disastrous. Even if only Russia uses nuclear weapons without any strike back from the west, this would still ruin the world for generations.

 

People tend to forget that these two countries were under communist rule for many years. The human life doesn't matter much there. There are probably tons of crazy heads behind the scene at the Russian side. Hardened ex communists taught from the cradle that the only thing important is to win.

You are trying to making an argument that nuclear weapons are going to be used and that you..............

 

"personally have no intention to finish my life like this, because of a war in some remote part of the world which can go nuclear."

 

Well here's a thing, nobody intends finishing their life like that not just you! As I stated, if they are then it would be by Russia and the whole world would lose. 

 

As for your claim that human life doesn't matter much there. That's just pure ignorance, that exactly why Ukraine has so much will, far more than Russia to see this through, because its their lives on the line and their country.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[rudi49jr]

44 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The conclusion of the article is the author's personal opinion, nothing else. And the conclusion that he is wrong is your opinion, nothing else.

So it’s just an author’s personal opinion, nothing else…

 

1 hour ago, gearbox said:

but it seems aligned to the reality.

And it’s also aligned to the reality. Hmm, somehow I see a flaw in that kind of reasoning.

[gearbox]

3 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

So it’s just an author’s personal opinion, nothing else…

 

And it’s also aligned to the reality. Hmm, somehow I see a flaw in that kind of reasoning.

Ignoring the propaganda noise from both sides and applying some abstract thinking, the reality is really simple.

The Russians at the moment are winning slowly. If they start losing, then there is a pocket full of nukes. Pocket full of nukes is undeniable reality, and that's the point the author makes.

 

Imagine a war between US and Mexico and the Mexicans start getting upper hand. Would the Americans use nukes to change the course of the war? They did it once already in WW2.

[rudi49jr]

9 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Pocket full of nukes is undeniable reality, and that's the point the author makes.

I think the point the author makes is that NATO/USA provoked this war, that Russia got dragged into it, had no choice but to go to war.

 

10 minutes ago, gearbox said:

They did it once already in WW2.

At a time when no other country had nuclear weapons, so totally different circumstances. 

[rudi49jr]

Just now, Kwasaki said:

Many on this thread will start calling you comrade because there is only one side of the story accepted on this thread. 

Well, comrade, you got that right, because there is only one side to this story: Russia started this war and is solely responsible. Period!