Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

quote "It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress."

 

 Severity? It sounds like a basic admin/paperwork error if even that. Precedent shows that even people who were not President had similar documentation at home, and it was deemed to be a non-event by the director of the FBI. Now, because its Trump, and the hatred for this man is way out of control thanks to all the lies, smears and hoaxes over the last 6 years, the left are suddenly concerned. It also appears that Trump DID have the power to declassify documents he wanted to take home for homework.

 

 

“Trump’s office, in a statement provided to John Solomon — the conservative journalist who is one of Trump’s authorized representatives to the National Archives — claimed late Friday that Trump often took classified documents to his residence and had issued a never-before-revealed “standing order” that all documents removed this way “were deemed to be declassified.” The power to classify and declassify documents rests solely with the President of the United States,” the statement read. “The idea that some paper-pushing bureaucrat, with classification authority delegated BY THE PRESIDENT, needs to approve of declassification is absurd.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/12/search-warrant-shows-trump-under-investigation-for-potential-obstruction-of-justice-espionage-act-violations-00051507

 

Looks more and more like game, set and match. Trump wins against a weaponized justice department for the 3rd, or it it 4th time now? I'm hoping the left learn from the latest defeat and start thinking about the disastrous state the country is in with Bidens inflation and the wars and all the bad stuff going on and start working to fix the country not hound and harass the man they are terrified of running against.

 

 

 

You need to move with the times, not even Trump is using this as an excuse anymore since the warrant was made public, something he could have done beforehand rather than wait for the FBI to do so.

RE: warrant.  18 U.S.C. sections 793, 2071 & 1519 

[gamb00ler]

14 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Look at the drooling goobers who show up at his rallies. Lots of QAnon flags and logos, caricatures of 45 that make him look other than the morbidly obese butterball he is, etc. Pure fantasy. I don't think any of the rally goers were in my class at Harvard or Stanford. The Universe severely shortchanged them when it came to intellect.

I certainly can't disagree with you on that.... however I do believe that somehow most of his voters have become emotionally entangled with MAGA and abandoned reason entirely in the realm of politics.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The conspiracies are never ending. They could be worth billions, names of deep cover operatives and on and on.

 

For me it brings on a larger concern over how truly sensitive docs are handled and stored. Am I to believe that these sensitive materials which are detrimental to the security to the USA are stored in card board boxes at the White House which is where the first 15 boxes came from. The materials from this last search and seizure also came from the White House or so I read. Were these materials kept in a secure vault that Trump opened and then threw them in a box?

 

Or were they merely stacked up in a room accessible to many? Hopefully along the way of going after Trump some different security protocols will be established.  

There are a number of posts scattered throughout this thread in which individuals with experience working with classified documents explain the principles of document storage and handling.

 

That a thief did not follow those principles when stealing documents is not a surprise and is not evidence of any of the conspiracy theories you refer too.

 

But you are correct, questions need to be answered on how these documents wound up in boxes at Mar-a-Largo.

 

It is Donald Trump who needs to answer those questions.

 

Thank you for raising this important point.

[Chomper Higgot]

It’s being reported that more sealed submissions to the court have been made on the M-a-L search warrant docket.

 

 

[JonnyF]

25 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No more so that the ‘lock her up’ chants that were the encore of so many Trump and rightwing rallies.

Agreed. Both were a disgrace.

 

However, this thread is about Trump so whatabouterry isn't really on topic.

[Lacessit]

14 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There are a number of posts scattered throughout this thread in which individuals with experience working with classified documents explain the principles of document storage and handling.

 

That a thief did not follow those principles when stealing documents is not a surprise and is not evidence of any of the conspiracy theories you refer too.

 

But you are correct, questions need to be answered on how these documents wound up in boxes at Mar-a-Largo.

 

It is Donald Trump who needs to answer those questions.

 

Thank you for raising this important point.

History will repeat itself, he'll take the Fifth, then keep the money rolling in from the gullible.

[bendejo]

Not smart to publicly denounce the LE agencies that defend you.  That's easy enough to figure out.  You needn't worry about them killing you, but if someone else went on the attack their defense of you may lack zeal.

Now what I would like to see is DHS issue a public bulletin that the former president could become a possible threat to the stability of the country, aka threat to the homeland.  They agree to take it down when he agrees to get off the slander.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, JonnyF said:

Agreed. Both were a disgrace.

 

However, this thread is about Trump so whatabouterry isn't really on topic.

Why would I need whataboutary, I have no desire at all to make this about anything but Trump.

But Trump’s past words and behavior are relevant where they intersect with the matter in hand.

 

[JonnyF]

24 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Please post a quote herein this OP where anyone has said:

 

"they wouldn't have raided him unless he was guilty" 

I said narrative, with the quote in inverted commas. 

 

Saying there is a narrative does not suggest anyone made that quote word for word (although they may well have done, I can't be bothered to check 31 pages as I have other things to do today). It means that is the general narrative, for example, many people have suggested the FBI wouldn't have raided unless they had a very good reason to do so (not sure if that was on this thread or the other one, you can check for me if you like).

 

 

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Why would I need whataboutary, I have no desire at all to make this about anything but Trump.

But Trump’s past words and behavior are relevant where they intersect with the matter in hand.

 

Because you acknowledged that assuming Trump is guilty and calling for him to be locked up at this stage is inappropriate (someone on this forum called for him to be locked up for life, and no I'm not going to spend time looking for the quote).

 

But you couldn't resist the "what about when it happened to someone else" addendum. A simple acknowledgement that due process is required before he can be assumed guilty would have sufficed.

 

[Tug]

8 hours ago, pegman said:

Seems the Feds took Trump's passports. That can't be good. Can it?

I sincerely hope it’s true I’m not so sure none of the responsible news agencies have verified that yet it may just be trump trying to create divison  and violence it’s what he does he needs to be locked up 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Because you acknowledged that assuming Trump is guilty and calling for him to be locked up at this stage is inappropriate (someone on this forum called for him to be locked up for life, and no I'm not going to spend time looking for the quote).

 

But you couldn't resist the "what about when it happened to someone else" addendum. A simple acknowledgement that due process is required before he can be assumed guilty would have sufficed.

 

This is a discussion forum, it’s not any part of deliberations within the criminal Justice system.

 

The presumption of innocence is not applicable to personal opinions and personal opinions differ.

 

 

Please try to come to terms with this.

[Bkk Brian]

30 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The conspiracies are never ending. They could be worth billions, names of deep cover operatives and on and on.

 

For me it brings on a larger concern over how truly sensitive docs are handled and stored. Am I to believe that these sensitive materials which are detrimental to the security to the USA are stored in card board boxes at the White House which is where the first 15 boxes came from. The materials from this last search and seizure also came from the White House or so I read. Were these materials kept in a secure vault that Trump opened and then threw them in a box?

 

Or were they merely stacked up in a room accessible to many? Hopefully along the way of going after Trump some different security protocols will be established.  

Yet this very point was raised and made public in 2017 by National Archives to the Trump administration:

 

National Archives warned Trump White House to preserve documents

 

National Archives officials have periodically warned White House lawyers that the Trump administration needs to follow document preservation laws, according to people familiar with the conversations and emails reviewed by POLITICO.

 

But National Archives officials have told the White House counsel’s office they were concerned that wasn’t happening, particularly early in the administration, officials with knowledge of the discussions said. Conversations have included John Laster and Gary Stern, two National Archives officials, and the White House counsel’s office.

 

The exchanges with the National Archives staff come amid concerns that the White House has been haphazard about its handling of government materials.

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/17/national-archives-trump-documents-preserve-243888

 

For digital archives, phone calls etc there is a very good video explanation here:

https://www.wsj.com/video/series/wsj-explains/how-confidential-documents-get-stored-at-the-white-house/42DC73F5-4298-467D-8F0F-9A63BEB48D05

 

[Eric Loh]

10 minutes ago, Tug said:

I sincerely hope it’s true I’m not so sure none of the responsible news agencies have verified that yet it may just be trump trying to create divison  and violence it’s what he does he needs to be locked up 

DOJ has returned the passports but that didn't stop Trump playing the victim card feverishly. Cried about stolen by the FBI even though it was clearly stated in the property receipt. Told a lie that 1 out of the 3 passports was expire which in fact was 2 expired passports. He just can't help lying. That's the nature of the man and some still think he is fit for Presidential office again. 

[ThailandRyan]

25 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I said narrative, with the quote in inverted commas. 

 

Saying there is a narrative does not suggest anyone made that quote word for word (although they may well have done, I can't be bothered to check 31 pages as I have other things to do today). It means that is the general narrative, for example, many people have suggested the FBI wouldn't have raided unless they had a very good reason to do so (not sure if that was on this thread or the other one, you can check for me if you like).

 

 

Show me the narrative that we are saying he is guilty, please do....

[riclag]

1 hour ago, androokery said:

You don't know the contents of these documents. Are you that confident in Trump's declassification powers that you don't mind if the documents become public as a result of your argument? Have you learned nothing? 

from politifact of all places.

Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, said that such authority gives the president the authority to "classify and declassify at will."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/16/james-risch/does-president-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/
 

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, riclag said:

Id like to see your source for that ! Maybe true for others but the office of the Potus has broad sweeping absolute over everything and anybody “at anytime “ , in fact he only needs to speak it.

Ah, that's it then, trump followers see him as some sort of "God Oracle" who only has to speak something and it is true and done.........explains a lot with his cult following, but sad all the same. 

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, riclag said:

from politifact of all places.

Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, said that such authority gives the president the authority to "classify and declassify at will."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/16/james-risch/does-president-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/
 

You better read the opinion where he tries to tie an active sitting president to a now non sitting former president....  good God, you folks will believe anyone who sides with Trump and your Mr Aftergood is an anti government individual who does not believe materials should be secretive.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

Once again, nearly everyone seems to breeze past the point that as a past President, Mr Trump almost certainly gets handed classified material on a regular basis.

 

Ex-Presidents have always been kept abreast of the current and ongoing situations of the Nation.  They are considered a resource. They are people who happen to be uniquely qualified to provide suggestions, advise, and help to a sitting President, should that be needed.

 

But to BE a resource, they need to be kept informed. So they are!

 

So, why would a guy who regularly gets handed classified material............ ever believe he wasn't entitled  to have classified materials in his possession?

 

If youre going to send out mixed messages........... don't get tweaked when the person you're interacting with.......... doesn't behave the way you think he should! Lol

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Once again, nearly everyone seems to breeze past the point that as a past President, Mr Trump almost certainly gets handed classified material on a regular basis.

 

Ex-Presidents have always been kept abreast of the current and ongoing situations of the Nation.  They are considered a resource. They are people who happen to be uniquely qualified to provide suggestions, advise, and help to a sitting President, should that be needed.

 

But to BE a resource, they need to be kept informed. So they are!

 

So, why would a guy who regularly gets handed classified material............ ever believe he wasn't entitled  to have classified materials in his possession?

Belief that one has a right is not a defense in a court of law.

[LosLobo]

23 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Once again, nearly everyone seems to breeze past the point that as a past President, Mr Trump almost certainly gets handed classified material on a regular basis.

 

Ex-Presidents have always been kept abreast of the current and ongoing situations of the Nation.  They are considered a resource. They are people who happen to be uniquely qualified to provide suggestions, advise, and help to a sitting President, should that be needed.

 

But to BE a resource, they need to be kept informed. So they are!

 

So, why would a guy who regularly gets handed classified material............ ever believe he wasn't entitled  to have classified materials in his possession?

"President Biden said on Friday that he would bar his predecessor, Donald J. Trump, from receiving intelligence briefings traditionally given to former presidents, saying that Mr. Trump could not be trusted because of his “erratic behavior” even before the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol.

The move was the first time that a former president had been cut out of the briefings, which are provided partly as a courtesy and partly for the moments when a sitting president reaches out for advice. Currently, the briefings are offered on a regular basis to Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama."

 

Biden Bars Trump From Receiving Intelligence Briefings, Citing ‘Erratic Behavior’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[SunnyinBangrak]

1 hour ago, androokery said:

You don't know the contents of these documents. Are you that confident in Trump's declassification powers that you don't mind if the documents become public as a result of your argument? Have you learned nothing? 

Yes, I am confident in Trump's judgement. This is not the first time(or 2nd) the "justice" departments have gone after Trump for alleged crimes that there was no evidence to support(because he was innocent). On the major issues Trump has been proven correct, and the FBI and others have been proven to have not acted honestly(FISA warrant to spy on Trump's campaign fiasco for example). To me, this means the FBI have zero credibility, they acted out of sheer hatred and a surety he was guilty due to this hatred, and Trump has extremely high credibility. When the list of Trump's "lies" was linked to on an earlier thread, about the first "lie" was him remembering the weather wrong on inauguration day, so I know the guy is as honest as the day is long if getting the weather wrong is one of the major "lies" he was accused of.  

 After somebody cries wolf several times, it is basic human nature to be highly doubtful if they again shriek there is a wolf coming. 

[Berkshire]

17 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Once again, nearly everyone seems to breeze past the point that as a past President, Mr Trump almost certainly gets handed classified material on a regular basis.

 

Ex-Presidents have always been kept abreast of the current and ongoing situations of the Nation.  They are considered a resource. They are people who happen to be uniquely qualified to provide suggestions, advise, and help to a sitting President, should that be needed.

 

But to BE a resource, they need to be kept informed. So they are!

 

So, why would a guy who regularly gets handed classified material............ ever believe he wasn't entitled  to have classified materials in his possession?

 

If youre going to send out mixed messages........... don't get tweaked when the person you're interacting with.......... doesn't behave the way you think he should! Lol

 

 

Trump has come up with all kinds of bizarre excuses to claim that he's innocent.  If what you're saying happened, why hasn't Trump brought up THIS excuse?  Maybe you need to contact his lawyers pronto because they really need some fresh new ideas. 

[SunnyinBangrak]

3 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Biden Bars Trump From Receiving Intelligence Briefings, Citing ‘Erratic Behavior’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Biden's healing the divide seems to be going well!

 

"President-elect Joe Biden in a victory speech Saturday night vowed to heal a nation torn apart by deep political and racial divisions and promised to hear the concerns of both Americans who voted for him and the tens of millions who supported President Trump."

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/524992-biden-vows-to-heal-divided-nation/

 

Biden will be in for a whole world of hurt the second he loses the house in the midterms. 

 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Belief that one has a right is not a defense in a court of law.

Actually, if the "defendant" can show that it was the government itself that created the confusion........... it is.

 

(I got a speeding ticket thrown out for this very reason. I was able to show that a particular stretch of road in Anacortes, WA, actually had TWO posted speed limits, depending on how you arrived on that particular stretch of road. They threw out the ticket because the government itself  had created the confusion.)

[KanchanaburiGuy]

12 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Biden Bars Trump From Receiving Intelligence Briefings, Citing ‘Erratic Behavior’ - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Thank you. I had never seen this. [Picture me a little red-faced! Lol]

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Biden's healing the divide seems to be going well!

 

"President-elect Joe Biden in a victory speech Saturday night vowed to heal a nation torn apart by deep political and racial divisions and promised to hear the concerns of both Americans who voted for him and the tens of millions who supported President Trump."

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/524992-biden-vows-to-heal-divided-nation/

 

Biden will be in for a whole world of hurt the second he loses the house in the midterms. 

 

Trump put paid to that thanks to his Jan 6th riots at Captiol Hill condoning the chants from the mob to hang Mike Spence

[KanchanaburiGuy]

15 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

After somebody cries wolf several times, it is basic human nature to be highly doubtful if they again shriek there is a wolf coming. 

Why does everyone forget that the boy gets killed at the end of the story, because there WAS a wolf, that time? Lol

[KanchanaburiGuy]

20 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Trump has come up with all kinds of bizarre excuses to claim that he's innocent.  If what you're saying happened, why hasn't Trump brought up THIS excuse?  Maybe you need to contact his lawyers pronto because they really need some fresh new ideas. 

Maybe you need to try being civil rather than snarky.

[ballpoint]

6 hours ago, pegman said:

I've been thinking more along the lines of a Russian sub off the coast of Palm Beach. He could take a row boat out from his club  for the rendezvous. Someone else would have to come to row for him because as everyone knows the tub of lard refuses to exert any energy himself. 

He'd have to take his girlfriend with him.  Only if she'd be willing to leave her husband, Jared, behind though.