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Special Feature: What happens when a foreigner dies in Thailand???


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Posted
1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

There's something weird about dying on foreign soil I just can't verbalize. Something not right about it.

That's rather jingoistic.  Well - then don't leave your own country because if you do?  There is always the chance you'll die while traveling. 

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  • Haha 1
Posted
3 hours ago, wombat said:

My take on me dieing in LOS is I become someone else's problem.

Presumably any friends you have are trying to avoid you, why should it be their problem 

  • Haha 1
Posted
2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

The process is pretty straight forward and doesn't require a multi-part story.

From personal experience (when my father died here in 2010).

Dad was in the hospital (age 77 - late stage lung cancer) when he died.
No need for autopsy. (If the cause of death is known, they don't need to do an autopsy.)

Assuming you are the next of kin/legal guardian.

  1. Hospital issues Death Certificate. (Body taken to the morgue.)
  2. Death Certificate has to be take to City Hall (to be authenticated or something).
  3. Death Certificate and passport of the deceased taken to national Embassy. (Passport is cancelled. Get Death Certificate translated and notarized copies made.)
  4. Embassy issues Letter authorizing disposal of the body.
  5. With copies of the Death Certificate and Letter from the Embassy, make an appointment at whichever temple you like for a cremation ceremony. 
  6. Make arrangements to move the body from the morgue to the temple on the appropriate day. 

Notes:
* The Embassy should try to contact next of kin if possible. If you are the next of kin, you need that letter from the Embassy authorizing you to dispose of the body, either locally (in Thailand) or transported back home (at your expense of course).
* You HAVE to have that Letter authorizing you to dispose of the body. The temple can't do a cremation without it.
* Cremation ceremonies can be one day affairs up to 5 days. But if the body has been in the morgue for a few days, they will want to do a "one and done" ceremony.
* You will be expected to dispose of the ashes the morning after the cremation.

That's pretty much it as far as Thailand is concerned.

Many foreigners won't have a Last Will and Testament which will muck things up a lot. Normally in Thailand, you have to wait 45 days before you can go to court to have the Will probated (read and approved by a judge).
(Got to have time for people, including any possible family members and/or creditors to lay claim to the assets.)

You can't dispose of any of the deceased's assets before then.

Which means someone has to pay for the cremation and (presumably) storage of personal effects.

I was the heir and only relative when my dad died. I paid for everything of course. Due to work issues, it was nearly 3 months before I could get back and go to court to have the Will probated (Dad did have a Will in Thailand and one in Canada as well).

I had to make a trip "home" later that year to notify the various gov't agencies (hence the need for the notarized copies of the translation of the Death Certificate) and to get his (Canadian) Will probated.

Most of that won't apply here though, as I doubt too many "bar stool buddies" are going to put much (if any) effort into settling someone's affairs (and paying out a wad of cash in the process).

Final Note - If you die in Thailand and don't have a Will, your relatives (if any) are screwed. Basically, the "gov't" (City Hall presumably) would take control of any personal effects and, if no claims are made against the estate, dispose of them after a period of 7 years.

A friend of mine died some years ago. Old Vietnam Vet. He actually travelled back the USA after he got sick and died there.
But he left assets in Thailand, including vehicles and money in the bank. No one could touch any of it because he didn't have a Will. Even his sister in the USA. 
She could have flown here and petitioned the court and maybe they would have given her his stuff but apparently she didn't want to make the trip or something.
So what will happen is that, after a period of time, his bank account will go "dormant" and after about 7 years, they will close it. I'm guessing any assets he had will have long since disappeared.

What if a foreigner dies and there's no one to do anything ?
Basically, the body would be taken to the hospital for an autopsy.
The Embassy would be notified. The body would stay in the morgue.
If the Embassy can't find any relatives, they would be expected to authorize the disposal of the body.
(I'm guessing City Hall would then make the arrangements with a temple for a "pauper's" cremation and the temple staff would dispose of the ashes.)
As to the person's assets, who knows ? Probably gone to whoever got there first.

By rights, any money in the bank would stay there until 7 years have passed. Then the account would be closed and the money (in theory) transferred to the (Federal) government.

If it is a friend of yours, you can go the "e-beggar" route, set up a GoFundMe and try to cash in (by claiming you need the money to settle his affairs and pay for his funeral).

(A few years ago some "Youtube" guy that was worth a bit of money died in Thailand. His relatives didn't want to spend their own money so they set up a GoFundMe with a ridiculous amount, like $100,000 US, to travel to Thailand to get the body and fly it home. I'm guessing after they spent a couple weeks in 5 star hotels and flying back and forth on chartered jets.)
 

very useful and informative post.    It does help if one resides in Thailand and has next of kin/wife/girlfriend and has assets (local and overseas) whatever and , if one has a WILL ,  to make a sealed letter (the place known to your next of kin )  listing your assets , bank account details ,  the place where your original Will can be found ( Lawyer / Land Office ) , contact details of whom needs to be informed ( ie financial adviser / lawyer / overseas next of kin etc )  . The WILL may state what type of funeral to be had or if body to be flown back overseas and also anything specific about the ashes . This should be consulted  at the earliest .   

 

  • Like 1
Posted
6 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

The title should have read "What happens when a US Veteran dies in Thailand", but clicks rule.

I agree, maybe the part 2 will be correctly titled US Veteran

Posted

Is it a simple process to obtain a death certificate in Thailand. It is a requirement for Australian Funeral Insurance policies, as I'm sure is the case for most other countries.

Posted
13 minutes ago, Jen65 said:

very useful and informative post.    It does help if one resides in Thailand and has next of kin/wife/girlfriend and has assets (local and overseas) whatever and , if one has a WILL ,  to make a sealed letter (the place known to your next of kin )  listing your assets , bank account details ,  the place where your original Will can be found ( Lawyer / Land Office ) , contact details of whom needs to be informed ( ie financial adviser / lawyer / overseas next of kin etc )  . The WILL may state what type of funeral to be had or if body to be flown back overseas and also anything specific about the ashes . This should be consulted  at the earliest .   

 

My understanding is that when an embassy is informed of a death they urgently look for 2 things in unison:

 

- Is there a valid will, and get a copy to check for the wishes of the departed.

 

- Instructions, from the deceased as to who should be promptly informed (in home country and in LOS), and if no other party had validly agreed to informed those listed then the embassy will undertake to have those listed promptly informed.

 

  • Confused 1
Posted (edited)

Retired in Chiang Mai for 11 years now. Five by-passes 2005 (USA), heart attack here 2015. As I was alone at the time, decided it was best to sell the condo and rent as my Sons are in USA and their coming to deal with claims to and sale of the limited assets here would burden them. So, now with a Thai Wife and Sons still in USA ... I executed a Thai Will leaving anything owned in Thailand to her and a separate USA Will which leaves my only assets there (retirement and invested funds one) to my Sons. As for my remains? Up the chimney at a local War with minimum fuss and bother (hopefully). Recommend registering with STEP program through  the US website as it allows Emergency contact info if the Embassy learns of your death or accident while abroad.

Edited by wwest5829
  • Like 2
Posted
3 minutes ago, AJS1954 said:

Is it a simple process to obtain a death certificate in Thailand. It is a requirement for Australian Funeral Insurance policies.

May well be needed for several purposes.

 

Re: 'Australian Funeral Insurance policies' I'm guessing you mean pre-paid funerals; my mum did this and took me to the funeral directors office where she had taken/paid for the policy. I asked 'but what happens if mum dies 20+ years from now and costs have gone way up? Quick clear response  'We will never ever ask you for more money'. They did.

 

Posted
5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

My understanding is that when an embassy is informed of a death they urgently look for 2 things in unison:

 

- Is there a valid will, and get a copy to check for the wishes of the departed.

 

- Instructions, from the deceased as to who should be promptly informed (in home country and in LOS), and if no other party had validly agreed to informed those listed then the embassy will undertake to have those listed promptly informed.

 

I think your understanding is very optimistic. Embassies don't go looking for wills. How would they possibly do this, and where would they look ?? They don't visit where the deceased lived, the hospital they died in etc.

They notify next of kin as per your passport (details you give when you apply for one).

  • Like 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Retired in Chiang Mai for 11 years now. Five by-passes 2005 (USA), heart attack here 2015. As I was alone at the time, decided it was best to sell the condo and rent as my Sons are in USA and their coming to deal with claims to and sale of the limited assets here would burden them. So, now with a Thai Wife and Sons still in USA ... I executed a Thai Will leaving anything owned in Thailand to her and a separate USA Will which leaves my only assets there (retirement and invested funds one) to my Sons. As for my remains? Up the chimney at a local War with minimum fuss and bother (hopefully).

Always good to be well organized, my case also. I reorganized my bank accounts so they are all joint accounts; me and my thai adult son, only needs one signature. All my assets already officially in his name. 

 

All details of my cremation well discussed, in detail with my son and his Thai wife. They know well that my wish is a very simple cremation at a local temple, no parties, no dancing girls, nothing. 

  • Like 1
Posted
2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

The process is pretty straight forward and doesn't require a multi-part story.

From personal experience (when my father died here in 2010).

Dad was in the hospital (age 77 - late stage lung cancer) when he died.
No need for autopsy. (If the cause of death is known, they don't need to do an autopsy.)

Assuming you are the next of kin/legal guardian.

  1. Hospital issues Death Certificate. (Body taken to the morgue.)
  2. Death Certificate has to be take to City Hall (to be authenticated or something).
  3. Death Certificate and passport of the deceased taken to national Embassy. (Passport is cancelled. Get Death Certificate translated and notarized copies made.)
  4. Embassy issues Letter authorizing disposal of the body.
  5. With copies of the Death Certificate and Letter from the Embassy, make an appointment at whichever temple you like for a cremation ceremony. 
  6. Make arrangements to move the body from the morgue to the temple on the appropriate day. 

Notes:
* The Embassy should try to contact next of kin if possible. If you are the next of kin, you need that letter from the Embassy authorizing you to dispose of the body, either locally (in Thailand) or transported back home (at your expense of course).
* You HAVE to have that Letter authorizing you to dispose of the body. The temple can't do a cremation without it.
* Cremation ceremonies can be one day affairs up to 5 days. But if the body has been in the morgue for a few days, they will want to do a "one and done" ceremony.
* You will be expected to dispose of the ashes the morning after the cremation.

That's pretty much it as far as Thailand is concerned.

Many foreigners won't have a Last Will and Testament which will muck things up a lot. Normally in Thailand, you have to wait 45 days before you can go to court to have the Will probated (read and approved by a judge).
(Got to have time for people, including any possible family members and/or creditors to lay claim to the assets.)

You can't dispose of any of the deceased's assets before then.

Which means someone has to pay for the cremation and (presumably) storage of personal effects.

I was the heir and only relative when my dad died. I paid for everything of course. Due to work issues, it was nearly 3 months before I could get back and go to court to have the Will probated (Dad did have a Will in Thailand and one in Canada as well).

I had to make a trip "home" later that year to notify the various gov't agencies (hence the need for the notarized copies of the translation of the Death Certificate) and to get his (Canadian) Will probated.

Most of that won't apply here though, as I doubt too many "bar stool buddies" are going to put much (if any) effort into settling someone's affairs (and paying out a wad of cash in the process).

Final Note - If you die in Thailand and don't have a Will, your relatives (if any) are screwed. Basically, the "gov't" (City Hall presumably) would take control of any personal effects and, if no claims are made against the estate, dispose of them after a period of 7 years.

A friend of mine died some years ago. Old Vietnam Vet. He actually travelled back the USA after he got sick and died there.
But he left assets in Thailand, including vehicles and money in the bank. No one could touch any of it because he didn't have a Will. Even his sister in the USA. 
She could have flown here and petitioned the court and maybe they would have given her his stuff but apparently she didn't want to make the trip or something.
So what will happen is that, after a period of time, his bank account will go "dormant" and after about 7 years, they will close it. I'm guessing any assets he had will have long since disappeared.

What if a foreigner dies and there's no one to do anything ?
Basically, the body would be taken to the hospital for an autopsy.
The Embassy would be notified. The body would stay in the morgue.
If the Embassy can't find any relatives, they would be expected to authorize the disposal of the body.
(I'm guessing City Hall would then make the arrangements with a temple for a "pauper's" cremation and the temple staff would dispose of the ashes.)
As to the person's assets, who knows ? Probably gone to whoever got there first.

By rights, any money in the bank would stay there until 7 years have passed. Then the account would be closed and the money (in theory) transferred to the (Federal) government.

If it is a friend of yours, you can go the "e-beggar" route, set up a GoFundMe and try to cash in (by claiming you need the money to settle his affairs and pay for his funeral).

(A few years ago some "Youtube" guy that was worth a bit of money died in Thailand. His relatives didn't want to spend their own money so they set up a GoFundMe with a ridiculous amount, like $100,000 US, to travel to Thailand to get the body and fly it home. I'm guessing after they spent a couple weeks in 5 star hotels and flying back and forth on chartered jets.)
 

good post....I have been through the process/ordeal more than a few times...up country is usually straight forward if next of kin can be notified quickly and agree to cremation....burials more difficult and time consuming....private hospitals catering to foreigners are expensive and can be very difficult...a body may stay in the hospital  morgue at a 4 star rate per day for weeks... cost for preparation and transport to the airport including a casket....air freight.....then the process begins again....local cremation in my experience is done with respect and the people and monks are supportive

Posted
2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I think your understanding is very optimistic. Embassies don't go looking for wills. How would they possibly do this, and where would they look ?? They don't visit where the deceased lived, the hospital they died in etc.

They notify next of kin as per your passport (details you give when you apply for one).

What I wrote is direct from the consular snr at the Australian embassy, Bkk. However I agree in most cases they wouldn't initially know where to look. 

Posted
42 minutes ago, connda said:

That's rather jingoistic.  Well - then don't leave your own country because if you do?  There is always the chance you'll die while traveling. 

take some soil with you

  • Like 2
Posted

An important subject for many of us older expats in Thailand.

However, I gave up reading the OP after the 8th use of the word veteran in the first couple of paras. The story didn't relate to me as I'm not an American who once served in the military.

 

  • Like 2
Posted
4 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

I’ve been involved in taking care of two deaths in the past 9 months  one being a Canadian and the other a Brit both friends of mine both in there 70s and both single and believe me it’s not an easy task thankfully both passed away in hospitals so the police were not involved and the hospital were fantastic when it came to assisting . One thing I have to mention is that the bodies will not be released for cremation until all hospital bills are settled and of course the Embassies have to give the release papers in order for cremation to take place . My Canadian friends embassy took 5 days to send the necessary documents which resulted in extra expenditure for mortuary daily costs the British Embassy only took 48 hours . Fortunately both deceased friends had the funds that all bills could be paid for including cremation costs had they not have had these funds I can only think there remains would have been languishing in the mortuary until someone came forward and settled the outstanding bills both passed in Government hospitals one bill including all cremation costs came 80/90,000 baht the other was over 450,000 baht the latter bill was due to the person being in Intensive care for over 8 days . I hope I never have to go through this experience again it was daunting to say the least and 8 months later I am still trying to sort out the Canadian friends estate as he had named me in his will as his executor but that’s another subject . The one thing I have learnt is make sure you keep all your documents , passwords next of kin in one place that there are funds to cover all matters and that if you live on your own ask a friend to take charge should you pass  .

great post...I know by experience how difficult the process can be...your friends were fortunate you managed their affairs...I have been through some deaths of foreign friends complicated by no/low funds for hospital bills...document problems...insurance problems...relative problems...spouse or spouses....next of kin that do not want to take responsibility....prepare now 

 

 

Posted
58 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

He normally stays dead!

been on lower Sukhumvit after 2am? He/she looks dead but they still be sellin  it

Posted
3 hours ago, Kerryd said:

The process is pretty straight forward and doesn't require a multi-part story.

From personal experience (when my father died here in 2010).

Dad was in the hospital (age 77 - late stage lung cancer) when he died.
No need for autopsy. (If the cause of death is known, they don't need to do an autopsy.)

Assuming you are the next of kin/legal guardian.

  1. Hospital issues Death Certificate. (Body taken to the morgue.)
  2. Death Certificate has to be take to City Hall (to be authenticated or something).
  3. Death Certificate and passport of the deceased taken to national Embassy. (Passport is cancelled. Get Death Certificate translated and notarized copies made.)
  4. Embassy issues Letter authorizing disposal of the body.
  5. With copies of the Death Certificate and Letter from the Embassy, make an appointment at whichever temple you like for a cremation ceremony. 
  6. Make arrangements to move the body from the morgue to the temple on the appropriate day. 

Notes:
* The Embassy should try to contact next of kin if possible. If you are the next of kin, you need that letter from the Embassy authorizing you to dispose of the body, either locally (in Thailand) or transported back home (at your expense of course).
* You HAVE to have that Letter authorizing you to dispose of the body. The temple can't do a cremation without it.
* Cremation ceremonies can be one day affairs up to 5 days. But if the body has been in the morgue for a few days, they will want to do a "one and done" ceremony.
* You will be expected to dispose of the ashes the morning after the cremation.

That's pretty much it as far as Thailand is concerned.

Many foreigners won't have a Last Will and Testament which will muck things up a lot. Normally in Thailand, you have to wait 45 days before you can go to court to have the Will probated (read and approved by a judge).
(Got to have time for people, including any possible family members and/or creditors to lay claim to the assets.)

You can't dispose of any of the deceased's assets before then.

Which means someone has to pay for the cremation and (presumably) storage of personal effects.

I was the heir and only relative when my dad died. I paid for everything of course. Due to work issues, it was nearly 3 months before I could get back and go to court to have the Will probated (Dad did have a Will in Thailand and one in Canada as well).

I had to make a trip "home" later that year to notify the various gov't agencies (hence the need for the notarized copies of the translation of the Death Certificate) and to get his (Canadian) Will probated.

Most of that won't apply here though, as I doubt too many "bar stool buddies" are going to put much (if any) effort into settling someone's affairs (and paying out a wad of cash in the process).

Final Note - If you die in Thailand and don't have a Will, your relatives (if any) are screwed. Basically, the "gov't" (City Hall presumably) would take control of any personal effects and, if no claims are made against the estate, dispose of them after a period of 7 years.

A friend of mine died some years ago. Old Vietnam Vet. He actually travelled back the USA after he got sick and died there.
But he left assets in Thailand, including vehicles and money in the bank. No one could touch any of it because he didn't have a Will. Even his sister in the USA. 
She could have flown here and petitioned the court and maybe they would have given her his stuff but apparently she didn't want to make the trip or something.
So what will happen is that, after a period of time, his bank account will go "dormant" and after about 7 years, they will close it. I'm guessing any assets he had will have long since disappeared.

What if a foreigner dies and there's no one to do anything ?
Basically, the body would be taken to the hospital for an autopsy.
The Embassy would be notified. The body would stay in the morgue.
If the Embassy can't find any relatives, they would be expected to authorize the disposal of the body.
(I'm guessing City Hall would then make the arrangements with a temple for a "pauper's" cremation and the temple staff would dispose of the ashes.)
As to the person's assets, who knows ? Probably gone to whoever got there first.

By rights, any money in the bank would stay there until 7 years have passed. Then the account would be closed and the money (in theory) transferred to the (Federal) government.

If it is a friend of yours, you can go the "e-beggar" route, set up a GoFundMe and try to cash in (by claiming you need the money to settle his affairs and pay for his funeral).

(A few years ago some "Youtube" guy that was worth a bit of money died in Thailand. His relatives didn't want to spend their own money so they set up a GoFundMe with a ridiculous amount, like $100,000 US, to travel to Thailand to get the body and fly it home. I'm guessing after they spent a couple weeks in 5 star hotels and flying back and forth on chartered jets.)
 

One of the best factual posts I have read on here for a long time…..Thank you

  • Confused 1
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, d4dang said:

great post...I know by experience how difficult the process can be...your friends were fortunate you managed their affairs...I have been through some deaths of foreign friends complicated by no/low funds for hospital bills...document problems...insurance problems...relative problems...spouse or spouses....next of kin that do not want to take responsibility....prepare now 

 

 

An old Canadian friend passed a few months ago in Pattaya. When he departed his dementia was quite advanced.

 

He knew he had dementia very mildly but he didn't tell anybody and it was some time before it started to advance and be noticeable.

 

Around the time it started to get advanced/well advanced he changed his executor several times including giving an instruction to his lawyer to make the lawyer his executor which he then changed quickly.

 

Also, he changed the username/password on his internet banking and the written a/c operating instructions at the bank branch (who can withdraw) many times. and he changed the beneficiaries* in his will many times. And changed lawyers. Many millions of Baht in his bank accounts. 

 

When he did pass it was a nightmare taking many months to make even little progress. One farang who believed he was the final executor started to try to sort it out but was suddenly blocked by a Thai friend of the deceased who had valid documents (accepted as original/valid) indicating he was the executor.

 

In reality the farang was very willing to bow out of the mess.

 

*Two of the 4 beneficiaries have since lodged a request for the last 2 versions of his will to be declared invalid because they claim they can prove he was quite incapable of logical though at the time. 

Edited by scorecard
  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, grain said:

Interesting topic and one I've been meaning to ask about myself. In my own case I live in Thailand in a de facto relationship. I'm registered with immigration at my Thai partner's address, she owns the land and house. And I made a will with Thai lawyers that covers my Thailand assets, and names my Thai partner as the sole beneficiary. Would she qualify as NOK in Thailand? And if not is there some way to legally make her my NOK (but not by marriage)? I do have some relatives in Australia but they couldn't give a rat's ass, so if/when I cash in my chips in Thailand having my Thai partner handle all the NOK duties is the best situation.

Not NOK but doesn't matter since your will leaves all your Thai assets to your partner and hopefully she is also your executor.



I am in the same situation and this thread highlights how critically important it is to have a Thai will. Eliminates 90% of the issues discussed here.

  • Like 2
Posted

Very good replies by KerryD (always writes intelligent and informative posts) and crazykopite who emphasizes the need to smooth out the paperwork trail for those sorting out the aftermath.

 

I've created a file (to be opened upon my death!????) that lists the procedures my wife will have to follow. It has the wills (Thai and Australian), the phone no's  and email addresses of friends in Australia who need to be informed, as well as the Embassy and local police. It explains where all the loot is hidden and how to access it, how to apply for the widows pension from my superannuation, and, as beneficiary, get to other investments.  A trusted friend in Australia is the executor for that will and will help with assets there. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted
2 hours ago, Wuvu2 said:

So what happens if you die here without any family or friends? Lets say my condo staff follows the smell and finds me bloated on the sofa, surrounded by Indian Viagra knockoffs and empty bottles of jack Daniels. What then?

Can I get back to you on that?

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