Israel losing global support over Gaza bombing, Biden says

[Morch]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

I'm saying that hamas had no reason to take it this time. And guess what, I'm right! They didn't!

 

@ozimoron

 

Other than you getting the timeline wrong, 'No reason', how?

Wouldn't saving some of their people from death, allowing supplies in and so on be reason enough?

 

[Morch]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Israeli National Security Advisor Tzachi Hangebi said Israel may have to go to war against Hezbollah to prevent a deadlier version of 7 October unfolding in Northern Israel.

 

"The Israelis are anticipating within the next six weeks to two months that if the diplomatic track isn't working, they're going to have to opt for some kind of military solution"

 

https://www.newarab.com/analysis/all-out-war-between-israel-and-hezbollah-horizon

 

@ozimoron

 

Hanegbi is often used to float things for Netanyahu, test the public waters, as it were. Here's another piece from just a day ago (it was already labeled a misunderstanding, maybe polls didn't show the right results):

 

Israel may ease opposition to PA ruling post-war Gaza, Hanegbi implies in Arabic op-ed

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/israel-may-ease-opposition-to-pa-ruling-post-war-gaza-hanegbi-implies-in-arabic-op-ed/ar-AA1lQKMC

 

Just another case of you posting stuff you're clueless about.

[Rimmer]

An unattributed post has been removed

 

The War in Israel

Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War. Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.

 

All video content must be from a credible media source, and in English. Foreign languages, even with subtitles, are not permitted.

[ThaiFelix]

18 hours ago, Morch said:

 

I don't think that there was a mass bombardment of 'safe zones'. Links and maps to attack shown on these topics do not support this.

 

Here's an idea, though - Hamas got all them tunnels, bunkers etc. - how about letting their own people in?

Did I say mass bombardments?   But anyhow any bombing at all in the area of course defeats the purpose of calling them safe areas doesnt it?

 

Allowing Palestinian civilians into the tunnels would create a massive security risk obviously.  Locations of the tunnels, entrences etc would need to be kept top secret.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Did I say mass bombardments?   But anyhow any bombing at all in the area of course defeats the purpose of calling them safe areas doesnt it?

 

Allowing Palestinian civilians into the tunnels would create a massive security risk obviously.  Locations of the tunnels, entrences etc would need to be kept top secret.

 

Battlefield mistakes may happen, that's a reality of war. I'm yet to see a credible figure of how many people were killed as a result of such a 'safe zone' bombardment, or even how many such bombings are claimed. I agree that it would have been better if they did not happen, but a battle zone is not a very orderly place.

 

Security risk to Hamas vs. increased security for Gazans.

That was my point.

[ThaiFelix]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Battlefield mistakes may happen, that's a reality of war. I'm yet to see a credible figure of how many people were killed as a result of such a 'safe zone' bombardment, or even how many such bombings are claimed. I agree that it would have been better if they did not happen, but a battle zone is not a very orderly place.

 

Security risk to Hamas vs. increased security for Gazans.

That was my point.

Battlefield mistakes? bwahahaha!   Most of the bombings seem very precise and thats what the Israeli propaganda machine spouts as well when it pretends to want to protect p[alestinian  civilians lol!

 

Yes security risk for Hamas of course.  I believe Palestinians understand that Hamas is in a last ditch attemp to free Palestinians from under the Zionists boots and understand fully the sacrifice.

 

The Israelis are butchers without a doubt.  There is no way any decent human being can justify the death of over 15,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children, overr the death of approx 1400 Israelis.  And dont give me the crap about hostages.  The Israeli mindset is no different, if not worse, than the Palestinians in seeing the loss of a few citizens an unfortunate loss but worth it for the greater good.   Its sickening.

 

Israel will pay for this insanity, and the USA moreso as this war would not have turned into a genocide and wholesale land theft without their support.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

Battlefield mistakes? bwahahaha!   Most of the bombings seem very precise and thats what the Israeli propaganda machine spouts as well when it pretends to want to protect p[alestinian  civilians lol!

 

Yes security risk for Hamas of course.  I believe Palestinians understand that Hamas is in a last ditch attemp to free Palestinians from under the Zionists boots and understand fully the sacrifice.

 

The Israelis are butchers without a doubt.  There is no way any decent human being can justify the death of over 15,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children, overr the death of approx 1400 Israelis.  And dont give me the crap about hostages.  The Israeli mindset is no different, if not worse, than the Palestinians in seeing the loss of a few citizens an unfortunate loss but worth it for the greater good.   Its sickening.

 

Israel will pay for this insanity, and the USA moreso as this war would not have turned into a genocide and wholesale land theft without their support.

 

Various figures cite tens of thousands bombs and munitions dropped, fired and launched on the Gaza Strip. The IAF is good, but it's inevitable there will be misses, mistakes and misjudgements. I guess that had it been an air force of lesser quality, there would be more of that.

 

What you believe is immaterial. There are more and more voices from the Gaza Strip (and the West Bank) berating and criticizing Hamas for bringing this calamity on their heads. I'm also pretty sure not everyone is thrilled to be 'sacrificed', surely not for leaders living in luxury at the Gulf. But again - I point out that there was (is) a way to protect civilians, if Hamas so wished. You do not accept it, fine.

 

When you start with 'butchers' etc., that's when I know there's no one home to talk to. You sounds like you need a little rest.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Battlefield mistakes? bwahahaha!   Most of the bombings seem very precise and thats what the Israeli propaganda machine spouts as well when it pretends to want to protect p[alestinian  civilians lol!

 

Yes security risk for Hamas of course.  I believe Palestinians understand that Hamas is in a last ditch attemp to free Palestinians from under the Zionists boots and understand fully the sacrifice.

 

The Israelis are butchers without a doubt.  There is no way any decent human being can justify the death of over 15,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children, overr the death of approx 1400 Israelis.  And dont give me the crap about hostages.  The Israeli mindset is no different, if not worse, than the Palestinians in seeing the loss of a few citizens an unfortunate loss but worth it for the greater good.   Its sickening.

 

Israel will pay for this insanity, and the USA moreso as this war would not have turned into a genocide and wholesale land theft without their support.

You are way behind in number of dead Palestinians. It's over 20,000 now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, as U.N. calls for fighting pause and aid

 

 

Israel will pay for this insanity, and the USA moreso as this war would not have turned into a genocide and wholesale land theft without their support.

Agree. Much of the world is against them now and more every time they blow up residential buildings with hundreds dead and dying.

Israel will indeed pay for this in the future. Karma will get them.

 

As for America. IMO the leaders, of both parties, have made America complicit in  this atrocity, and are ruining America's reputation world wide.

Who could trust them to be a neutral arbiter of conflicts after their one sided support for the destruction of Gaza, while IMO lying to the world about how they are doing their hardest to rein in the israeli atrocites.

One only needs look at who is the obstacle to any sort of meaningful resolution in the UN. Even Russia is on the right side on this.

IMO more aid without a ceasefire is a nonsense, and shame on the lot of them for pretending that the resolution is anything other than garbage. Desperately trying to hang onto their well paid jobs IMO.

 

If nothing else, this conflict has brought front and center how useless the UN is and how it has abysmally failed in it's charter to bring peace to the world.

Either get rid of the veto, or get rid of the security council, IMO.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are way behind in number of dead Palestinians. It's over 20,000 now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, as U.N. calls for fighting pause and aid

 

 

Israel will pay for this insanity, and the USA moreso as this war would not have turned into a genocide and wholesale land theft without their support.

Agree. Much of the world is against them now and more every time they blow up residential buildings with hundreds dead and dying.

Israel will indeed pay for this in the future. Karma will get them.

 

As for America. IMO the leaders, of both parties, have made America complicit in  this atrocity, and are ruining America's reputation world wide.

Who could trust them to be a neutral arbiter of conflicts after their one sided support for the destruction of Gaza, while IMO lying to the world about how they are doing their hardest to rein in the israeli atrocites.

One only needs look at who is the obstacle to any sort of meaningful resolution in the UN. Even Russia is on the right side on this.

IMO more aid without a ceasefire is a nonsense, and shame on the lot of them for pretending that the resolution is anything other than garbage. Desperately trying to hang onto their well paid jobs IMO.

 

If nothing else, this conflict has brought front and center how useless the UN is and how it has abysmally failed in it's charter to bring peace to the world.

Either get rid of the veto, or get rid of the security council, IMO.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

More hot air and nothing comments.

 

For example:

 

(a)

Much of the world is against them - In what meaningful way? Do countries break diplomatic/trade relations? Are there any boycotts/sanctions? Mass recall of Ambassadors? It's more like stock slogan you put up any time there a topic related to this conflict.

 

(b)

Israel will indeed pay for this in the future. Karma will get them - Another old favorite. Doubts as to the clarity of your crystal ball aside, you keep saying that and not a whole lot happens. So sure, could be that now is, finally, the time, that it will be different. Only it won't. Been there done that.

 

(c)

As for America - considering your many anti-USA posts, do you think many on here take your views on it as unbiased, hinged even? And as expected did not take long for you to congratulate the orcs, whom you support on the other front. Like they are some pro-peace side. Get real.

 

(d)

this conflict has brought front and center how useless the UN is yada yada yada - this happens on a regular basis. There is nothing new, 'front and center' or otherwise about it. It's just you banging the same toy drum.

 

 

[placeholder]

On 12/23/2023 at 5:27 PM, Morch said:

 

Various figures cite tens of thousands bombs and munitions dropped, fired and launched on the Gaza Strip. The IAF is good, but it's inevitable there will be misses, mistakes and misjudgements. I guess that had it been an air force of lesser quality, there would be more of that.

 

What you believe is immaterial. There are more and more voices from the Gaza Strip (and the West Bank) berating and criticizing Hamas for bringing this calamity on their heads. I'm also pretty sure not everyone is thrilled to be 'sacrificed', surely not for leaders living in luxury at the Gulf. But again - I point out that there was (is) a way to protect civilians, if Hamas so wished. You do not accept it, fine.

 

When you start with 'butchers' etc., that's when I know there's no one home to talk to. You sounds like you need a little rest.

Not enough voices berating Israel for actively supporting Hamas to the detriment of Gazans, though. Sure, Israelis are angry about that support for the consequences to them but as for what the Gazans are suffering, not so much, if at all. In fact, more like the opposite is widely the case.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Not enough voices berating Israel for actively supporting Hamas to the detriment of Gazans, though. Sure, Israelis are angry about that support for the consequences to them but as for what the Gazans are suffering, not so much, if at all. In fact, more like the opposite is widely the case.

 

I'm sure you thought you had a smart point.

[placeholder]

Just now, Morch said:

 

I'm sure you thought you had a smart point.

Empty insult much?

[metisdead]

An off topic post contravening our Community Standards has been removed as this topic is not about WMD's in the Iraq war. 

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Empty insult much?

 

An observation.

[Bkk Brian]

NYT doing its best to be impartial...........lol

 

"Unable to reach Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, the @nytimes settled on having Hamas write its guest essay. For the record, the word “hostage” doesn’t appear once in this Hamas propaganda piece."

 

https://twitter.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1739274218787799267

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/24/opinion/gaza-city-palestine-war.html

https://archive.ph/LsKfQ

[ThaiFelix]

On 12/24/2023 at 5:20 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

You are way behind in number of dead Palestinians. It's over 20,000 now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/gaza-israel-war-20000-dead/

More than 20,000 dead in Gaza, as U.N. calls for fighting pause and aid

 

 

Israel will pay for this insanity, and the USA moreso as this war would not have turned into a genocide and wholesale land theft without their support.

Agree. Much of the world is against them now and more every time they blow up residential buildings with hundreds dead and dying.

Israel will indeed pay for this in the future. Karma will get them.

 

As for America. IMO the leaders, of both parties, have made America complicit in  this atrocity, and are ruining America's reputation world wide.

Who could trust them to be a neutral arbiter of conflicts after their one sided support for the destruction of Gaza, while IMO lying to the world about how they are doing their hardest to rein in the israeli atrocites.

One only needs look at who is the obstacle to any sort of meaningful resolution in the UN. Even Russia is on the right side on this.

IMO more aid without a ceasefire is a nonsense, and shame on the lot of them for pretending that the resolution is anything other than garbage. Desperately trying to hang onto their well paid jobs IMO.

 

If nothing else, this conflict has brought front and center how useless the UN is and how it has abysmally failed in it's charter to bring peace to the world.

Either get rid of the veto, or get rid of the security council, IMO.

Yes you are right, I havnt kept up with it over Christmas as too sickening, both the horrendous slaughter plus the aperthy towards it, extremely difficult to comprehend the lengths some go to condone it.

 

There have been too many wars of late that have been waged for unjustified reasons and they have got away with it regardless.  This has been an influence I believe, on Israels decisions as to just how far they will go.  As you say, the UN is completely useless while the veto system is in place, it makes a mockery of the very purpose of the Security Council.

 

And yes the world is well aware of the US's complicity in the genocide, they leave no doubts of their role.

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Yes you are right, I havnt kept up with it over Christmas as too sickening, both the horrendous slaughter plus the aperthy towards it, extremely difficult to comprehend the lengths some go to condone it.

 

There have been too many wars of late that have been waged for unjustified reasons and they have got away with it regardless.  This has been an influence I believe, on Israels decisions as to just how far they will go.  As you say, the UN is completely useless while the veto system is in place, it makes a mockery of the very purpose of the Security Council.

 

And yes the world is well aware of the US's complicity in the genocide, they leave no doubts of their role.

I will focus on ONE of your sentences.

This isn't another war. This is THIS war.

Are you actually and seriously asserting that Israel went to THIS war with Hamas for no reason?!?

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

Yes you are right, I havnt kept up with it over Christmas as too sickening, both the horrendous slaughter plus the aperthy towards it, extremely difficult to comprehend the lengths some go to condone it.

 

There have been too many wars of late that have been waged for unjustified reasons and they have got away with it regardless.  This has been an influence I believe, on Israels decisions as to just how far they will go.  As you say, the UN is completely useless while the veto system is in place, it makes a mockery of the very purpose of the Security Council.

 

And yes the world is well aware of the US's complicity in the genocide, they leave no doubts of their role.

 

  Release  the hostages and bring the murderers and rapists and war criminals to justice and this war can come to an end .

   Taking hostages is a war crime and the war criminals need to face justice 

[ThaiFelix]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I will focus on ONE of your sentences.

This isn't another war. This is THIS war.

Are you actually and seriously asserting that Israel went to THIS war with Hamas for no reason?!?

Where did I say that?  Are you misquoting somebody elses post.

 

 

[ThaiFelix]

7 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Release  the hostages and bring the murderers and rapists and war criminals to justice and this war can come to an end .

   Taking hostages is a war crime and the war criminals need to face justice 

So we are in agreement.   Israel must be held to account for the occupation, murder and rape they have subjected the innocent Palestinians to.

[Bkk Brian]

37 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

So we are in agreement.   Israel must be held to account for the occupation, murder and rape they have subjected the innocent Palestinians to.

Twisted logic how you make that from the below post but then you did admit to not keeping up with the situation

 

7 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Release  the hostages and bring the murderers and rapists and war criminals to justice and this war can come to an end .

   Taking hostages is a war crime and the war criminals need to face justice 

 

[Morch]

9 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Yes you are right, I havnt kept up with it over Christmas as too sickening, both the horrendous slaughter plus the aperthy towards it, extremely difficult to comprehend the lengths some go to condone it.

 

There have been too many wars of late that have been waged for unjustified reasons and they have got away with it regardless.  This has been an influence I believe, on Israels decisions as to just how far they will go.  As you say, the UN is completely useless while the veto system is in place, it makes a mockery of the very purpose of the Security Council.

 

And yes the world is well aware of the US's complicity in the genocide, they leave no doubts of their role.

 

 

"There have been too many wars of late that have been waged for unjustified reasons"

 

Implying that 7/10 was 'unjustified reason' for war is a choice.

[ThaiFelix]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Twisted logic how you make that from the below post but then you did admit to not keeping up with the situation

 

 

Certainly sounded to me like it was the Israelis being described??

[ThaiFelix]

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

 

"There have been too many wars of late that have been waged for unjustified reasons"

 

Implying that 7/10 was 'unjustified reason' for war is a choice.

No not at all, this war  all started well before October 7.

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Certainly sounded to me like it was the Israelis being described??

I gave benifit of doubt but the other option was just plain deflection

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Certainly sounded to me like it was the Israelis being described??

 

As Mom used to say, you hear what you want to hear.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

No not at all, this war  all started well before October 7.

 

These topics are about current events, hence 'this war' applies to that.

If it's about you objecting to Israel's existence just say so.

 

 

[Jingthing]

38 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

No not at all, this war  all started well before October 7.

NO!

This conflict did. Certainly.

This WAR started October 7.

[ozimoron]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

NO!

This conflict did. Certainly.

This WAR started October 7.

 

Israel was just living peacefully, doing nothing at all that could be described as a crime against humanity and then, bam, Hamas attacked out of the blue. Nobody saw it coming.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, ThaiFelix said:

No not at all, this war  all started well before October 7.

You can't change the history books. This war started because of the Hamas led attack on 7th Oct.