Pattaya: "I'm not sick and it's my right not to wear a mask" - Thai man makes a video stand at market

[Logosone]

27 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

The study is incomplete. Only partial testing conducted. Learn and move on.

The study is incomplete, in that Iceland will continue to test.

 

That "partial" testing however represents the largest testing data any country has ever obtained.

 

To put it into context:

 

"According to Worldometer, an online statistics website run by an international team of developers and researchers that collates public health information published directly by each state, the U.S. has conducted about 2.5 million tests as of April 11. That equates to about 7,600 tests per one million people. Using that same scale that accounts for Iceland's population, Iceland has undertaken 100,000 tests per million people."

 

"John P.A. Ioannidis, a professor biomedical data science and epidemiology at Stanford University, said that the "best data" on coronavirus is currently coming from Iceland. But that may be partly because Iceland is the only country that has so much data".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/10/coronavirus-covid-19-small-nations-iceland-big-data/2959797001/

 

But you can just verify this with simple arithmetics, take the US case number, divide it by the US population and you'll see it represents 0.5% of the population, very much in the neighbourhood of the 0.8% figure of Iceland.

 

It is becoming clear that 99% of people do not have the virus. It therefore makes virtually no sense to wear a mask.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Logosone

[Bkk Brian]

50 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Because Iceland is such a tiny country they were able to do far more testing than any nation on earth.

 

Not true, you're now tangled in your own web

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, Logosone said:

The study is incomplete, in that Iceland will continue to test.

 

That "partial" testing however represents the largest testing data any country has ever obtained.

 

To put it into context:

 

"According to Worldometer, an online statistics website run by an international team of developers and researchers that collates public health information published directly by each state, the U.S. has conducted about 2.5 million tests as of April 11. That equates to about 7,600 tests per one million people. Using that same scale that accounts for Iceland's population, Iceland has undertaken 100,000 tests per million people."

 

"John P.A. Ioannidis, a professor biomedical data science and epidemiology at Stanford University, said that the "best data" on coronavirus is currently coming from Iceland. But that may be partly because Iceland is the only country that has so much data".

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/10/coronavirus-covid-19-small-nations-iceland-big-data/2959797001/

 

But you can just verify this with simple arithmetics, take the US case number, divide it by the US population and you'll see it represents 0.5% of the population, very much in the neighbourhood of the 0.8% figure of Iceland.

 

It is becoming clear that 99% of people do not have the virus. It therefore makes virtually no sense to wear a mask.

And there you have it.  Iceland has tested and Thailand has not, so garner from that what you can.  To be equal and ensure clarity to compare untested Area's with charted and real data, as you are claiming, is just folly on your part.  Unless all are equal your Iceland theory is dead in the water.

 

Mask up, enjoy Thailand as it is and try to follow the rules in place.  As a foreigner we are also in no place to challenge the Government.  Do so and you risk IDC and deportation back to whence you came...It is not a hard decision to make.

[Phil McCaverty]

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

It therefore makes virtually no sense to wear a mask.

It makes every sense. Getting back to the OP: The rules in Thailand are wear a mask when visiting a market. In Pattaya, where the incident took place, the rule is , when leaving home wear a mask at all times. Up to you, wear a mask and have happy days, don't wear a mask and expect to get hassled by police and public, which is why I wear a mask at all times in Pattaya.

 

I generally abhor people on forums who take this attitude, but this is a rare occasion when its warranted:

 

You don't like the rules that Thailand has initiated to combat Covid-19, and refuse to obey them? <deleted> off back to your own country.

[GoodieAfterDark]

 

[Tony125]

USA Grocery workers fear confrontations with shoppers over mask rules

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/we-all-worry-about-it-grocery-workers-fear-confrontations-with-shoppers-over-mask-rules/ar-BB14CKsR?li=BBnb7Kz

[Phil McCaverty]

1 minute ago, GoodieAfterDark said:

 

Is Dr Jeff in a position to make the rules regarding wearing face masks in Thailand? Does Dr. Jeff even know where Thailand is? In that case Dr. Jeff's opinions are completely irrelevant to this thread.

[Phil McCaverty]

1 minute ago, Tony125 said:

USA Grocery workers fear confrontations with shoppers over mask rules

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/we-all-worry-about-it-grocery-workers-fear-confrontations-with-shoppers-over-mask-rules/ar-BB14CKsR?li=BBnb7Kz

The opposite is true in Thailand. Expect confrontations if you're not wearing a mask.

[Tony125]

4 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

The opposite is true in Thailand. Expect confrontations if you're not wearing a mask.

???   Sorry but that's what the article is about if you read it. Some individuals  (like the Thai guy) don't want to wear a mask in public or while shopping in a store and there have been altercations with staff or security who prevent them from entering .

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

 

Because Iceland is such a tiny country they were able to do far more testing than any nation on earth.

 

The best Covid19 data in the world comes out of Iceland. And of course if you look at a country with a population like the US, 330,000,000 you will see their identified cases represent 0.5% of the population.

 

What a co-incidence, exactly round about the Iceland figure of 0.8%.

 

It is very clear now that the number of people who have the virus is much smaller than originally feared, it is around 0.8% of people, give or take a few basis points for national circumstances. It's a tiny number.

Sorry, but your statistical knowledge is inadequate here. 

 

0.5% is 60% less than 0.8% and is therefore a LONG way away.  0.8% is nearly double.   Just because both are small percentages does not mean they are "exactly round about" the same.

 

In the wider context, there is also the fact that USA has huge tracts of almost empty space, and thus spread to more isolated areas has quite possibly not even started yet.  Comparing Iceland with this is not particularly relevant I fear.

 

PH

 

PH

[Phil McCaverty]

11 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

???   Sorry but that's what the article is about if you read it. Some individuals  (like the Thai guy) don't want to wear a mask in public or while shopping in a store and there have been altercations with staff or security who prevent them from entering .

Exactly. He refused to wear a mask and was confronted.

 

You need to read the post I was replying to for context.

 

All this arguing about "is a mask effective", "I refuse to wear one" is irrelevant. Don't wear a mask, expect hassle.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Phil McCaverty

[newatthis]

23 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

Is Dr Jeff in a position to make the rules regarding wearing face masks in Thailand? Does Dr. Jeff even know where Thailand is? In that case Dr. Jeff's opinions are completely irrelevant to this thread.

Correct. The OP is about Thais telling Thais what to do in Thailand. The USA, or any other country, is not relevant.

[Logosone]

41 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

And there you have it.  Iceland has tested and Thailand has not, so garner from that what you can.  To be equal and ensure clarity to compare untested Area's with charted and real data, as you are claiming, is just folly on your part.  Unless all are equal your Iceland theory is dead in the water.

 

Mask up, enjoy Thailand as it is and try to follow the rules in place.  As a foreigner we are also in no place to challenge the Government.  Do so and you risk IDC and deportation back to whence you came...It is not a hard decision to make.

No it's not folly, looking at the country which has by far collected the most hard scientific data is what one should do. What does Iceland's data tell us? That 0.8% of the general population have SARS Cov2.

 

That means 99% of the population do not have the virus, can not spread the virus and present zero risk.

 

If you look at the case numbers in the USA and calculate them as percentage of population you get 0.5% a figure in the vicinity of 0.8%. If you allow for a certain number of unidentified cases you are roughly in the same ballpark as 0.8%. Give or take a few basis points the figure will be the same elsewhere.

 

Looking at Thailand's figures indeed any other Asian country you'd get an EVEN smaller figure by far than 0.8%. So it is even less sensible to wear a mask.

[Phil McCaverty]

11 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Looking at Thailand's figures indeed any other Asian country you'd get an EVEN smaller figure by far than 0.8%. So it is even less sensible to wear a mask.

Its sensible to wear a mask because its the LAW in Thailand.

 

As for comparing Iceland (a small isolated country) to Thailand, look at the figures.

 

Thais are accustomed to wearing masks for reasons other than Covid so have taken easily to the practice. 

 

Iceland 1800 cases, 10 deaths.

 

Thailand 3000 cases 56 deaths.

 

If you equivocate those numbers to % of population, Thailand is doing far better.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Phil McCaverty

[Harry Fingerling]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:44 AM, yuyiinthesky said:

Yes, fully agree, curfews, lockdowns, beach ban, alcohol ban, it‘s really hard to come up with such stupid measures. But do not underestimate them, they managed to do it! 
 

However, please don‘t be racist, there is no reason. Just look at the stupid nonsense Neil Fergusson (Professor Lockdown) came up with, flawed models, totally wrong coding, and so on. 
 

On the other side look at this Thai, he understood that if he is not sick he cannot infect anyone, which is absolutely logic and indisputable correct.
 

So please do not engage in racism and Thai bashing.

Agreed, there is no place for racism whatsoever. I’m just wondering if us aliens... oops I meant us dirty farangs might take offence at the  institutionalised racism on visa literature. ???? 

[Tony125]

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No it's not folly, looking at the country which has by far collected the most hard scientific data is what one should do. What does Iceland's data tell us? That 0.8% of the general population have SARS Cov2.

 

That means 99% of the population do not have the virus, can not spread the virus and present zero risk.

 

If you look at the case numbers in the USA and calculate them as percentage of population you get 0.5% a figure in the vicinity of 0.8%. If you allow for a certain number of unidentified cases you are roughly in the same ballpark as 0.8%. Give or take a few basis points the figure will be the same elsewhere.

 

Looking at Thailand's figures indeed any other Asian country you'd get an EVEN smaller figure by far than 0.8%. So it is even less sensible to wear a mask.

Here is where your idea is folly. The virus is highly infectious, spreads much more easily than regular flu. Say 1% of a population has it today. It spreads exponentially so without masks, washing  hands and social distancing 1 person has it today, 10 have it tommorow, 100 in a few days 1,000 next 10,000 and you will have 70 % of a country infected within a year

[ThailandRyan]

11 minutes ago, Logosone said:

No it's not folly, looking at the country which has by far collected the most hard scientific data is what one should do. What does Iceland's data tell us? That 0.8% of the general population have SARS Cov2.

 

That means 99% of the population do not have the virus, can not spread the virus and present zero risk.

That 99% is from just the tests they have done in there own country according to the data you posted.  You still do not understand that this is Thailand and not Iceland.  Testing has not been done here at the levels you indicate Iceland has tested there small percentage of population, nor does it matter what Iceland's testing has shown.  It is a model, 1 of many, and when the final shoe drops it can be compared.  But until then You need to see that Thailand has put masks into play, more than likely because they know the risk to the public.  So do yourself a favor and the rest of us and realize Thailand has rules and edicts that are to be followed. Iceland is not Thailand.  Go to Iceland if you feel so safe with there statistics and your belief they are on the right track.....

[transam]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Thats the thing, if and more if. We are in unchartered territory and caution is the key, wearing masks does not have an impact on the economy or have the adverse affects of more stringent measures of social distancing. Its a small sacrifice to wear a mask in enclosed spaces, public transport etc. Walking in a park or beach then probably not.

I doubt he will understand that....????

[Andre0720]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 9:44 AM, yuyiinthesky said:

Yes, fully agree, curfews, lockdowns, beach ban, alcohol ban, it‘s really hard to come up with such stupid measures. But do not underestimate them, they managed to do it! 
 

However, please don‘t be racist, there is no reason. Just look at the stupid nonsense Neil Fergusson (Professor Lockdown) came up with, flawed models, totally wrong coding, and so on. 
 

On the other side look at this Thai, he understood that if he is not sick he cannot infect anyone, which is absolutely logic and indisputable correct.
 

So please do not engage in racism and Thai bashing.

Not about bashing, just looking at some facts here...

With rights come responsibilities... With this last word comes a lot of reactions here in Thailand.

"Yes, fully agree, curfews, lockdowns, beach ban, alcohol ban, it‘s really hard to come up with such stupid measures", to try, I do say try, to protect others.

And yes also, speed limits, red lights at too many intersections. too many solid white lines separating lanes (What do they mean??).

Thais drivers understand that being careful as they always are, they cannot hurt anyone, so no need to follow all these stupid measures on the roads. Absolutely logic is it not...

So every time I see this plea for not bashing thai people, I read 'Please refrain from thai bashing when confronted with all these reasons that people have to do so.'

I see everyday people using the surface of this part of the world as a convenient garbage dump for papers and plastics of all sorts. Cleaning, oh yes, cleaning, well would not want to steal the jobs of Myanmar nationals.

 

[Bkk Brian]

20 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

If you look at the case numbers in the USA and calculate them as percentage of population you get 0.5% a figure in the vicinity of 0.8%. If you allow for a certain number of unidentified cases you are roughly in the same ballpark as 0.8%. Give or take a few basis points the figure will be the same elsewhere.

Flawed, you keep attempting to make comparisons to the whole of the USA population of 330,817,010 to Iceland with a population of just 364,134 without taking into account hotspots, cities, area's. 

 

New York for example with a population of 8,336,817

Positive cases, 373,622

Population infection, around 4.5% quite a difference form your 0.8% ..........yea

 

Bringing Thailand into the mix is just ridiculous

 

[quake]

52 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 So it is even less sensible to wear a mask.

Dirty Falang 

[pixelaoffy]

20 hours ago, Mikeasq60 said:

what you mean?

If you live in thailand and youre not Thai  you really should know what he means

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Logosone said:

It is very clear now that the number of people who have the virus is much smaller than originally feared, it is around 0.8% of people, give or take a few basis points for national circumstances. It's a tiny number.

But a NY State study showed over 12% had Covid-19 antibodies, and that was repeated with some UK results.  So I find your 0.8% very suspect, you mean currently have the virus? 

[transam]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

No it's not folly, looking at the country which has by far collected the most hard scientific data is what one should do. What does Iceland's data tell us? That 0.8% of the general population have SARS Cov2.

 

That means 99% of the population do not have the virus, can not spread the virus and present zero risk.

 

If you look at the case numbers in the USA and calculate them as percentage of population you get 0.5% a figure in the vicinity of 0.8%. If you allow for a certain number of unidentified cases you are roughly in the same ballpark as 0.8%. Give or take a few basis points the figure will be the same elsewhere.

 

Looking at Thailand's figures indeed any other Asian country you'd get an EVEN smaller figure by far than 0.8%. So it is even less sensible to wear a mask.

Your country tells you to wear a seat belt in the unlikely event of a crash...

 

Do you wear a seat belt in your country, if so why...?

[ThaiFelix]

3 hours ago, Phil McCaverty said:

You don't like the rules that Thailand has initiated to combat Covid-19, and refuse to obey them? <deleted> off back to your own country.

Why dont you stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really mean?!????????????

[off road pat]

On 5/26/2020 at 4:30 AM, YetAnother said:

it is hard trying to think like a thai

Americans can do that very well !!! they even protest with assault weapons !!!

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, KingDong75 said:

I don’t blame him! I’ve pretty much been doing exactly the same thing because it just goes from your hands to face anyway nonsense. 

You should only put on/take off  mask by the ear loops, can use sanitizer  on hands if you have adjusted the mask.

 

CDC's newest guidelines warn of only one likely way of contracting coronavirus

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/there-s-only-one-way-to-contract-covid-19-when-grocery-shopping-cdc-says/ar-BB14nILK?li=BBnba9O

 

CDC's newest guidelines warn of only one likely way of contracting coronavirus

As the CDC is learning more about the nature of COVID-19 and the way it spreads among the population, their guidelines on potential ways you could contract the disease have been updated.

 

Now, a slight but potentially significant shift has come to light on CDC's website. Where once their coronavirus guidelines warned that "it may be possible" to contract the virus through contaminated surfaces and objects, the website now lists "touching surfaces or objects" as an unlikely way of contracting the virus.

 

The most important precaution is wearing a face mask and keeping a safe social distance from others at all times. Keep washing your hands frequently and be mindful of touching your face.

[ThLT]

6 hours ago, Logosone said:

If you take the number of cases in the US and divide them as per the US population, 0.5% of people have the virus.

So the actual cold hard, evidenced, scientific facts do indicate that the number of people who have the virus is in the region of 0.8%.

Your math is wrong. That's not how math works. ????

There have only been 15,532,159 tests in the US.
If I were to use your reasoning, I could say that 11.1% of the whole US population is infected (obviously, those who are sick get tested more).
 

Edited May 27, 2020 by ThLT

[Bob A Kneale]

On 5/26/2020 at 9:44 AM, yuyiinthesky said:

So please do not engage in racism and Thai bashing.

You're flogging a dead horse with that request here!

[Mikeasq60]

22 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

Since 99.8% of people do not have the virus?  Can I have a source for that please?  98% of what population?  Thailand, the world?  Was I sleeping when they tested everybody?  I dont know anybody that has been tested anywhere? How can they (who?) come up with such a figure.  But then you later state 92% dont have it.

 

Irregardless I look at it this way.  I dont trust this government nor do I trust many others.  We dont know anything much at all about this virus and the news seems to be changing all the time like your stats.  So I am left to trust my own instincts which tells me the more we keep away from others the better....very simple logic.

 

Now we cant stay totally isolated permanently, supplies need to be sought.  We go out shopping once a week.  Logic tells me that it has to be safer for others and ourselves to wear a mask.  Its no big deal to wear one so why not.  But the mask is also a symbol.  It is telling others that I care and it is also a reminder to myself to not put my hands near my face and to be careful what I touch.

 

In addition we need to remember we are the minority here and we stand out.  Locals notice things and they talk, especially if youre not wearing a mask or socialising.  In my area it is the farang who are getting the blame for this virus, not the Chinese.  The more of us that follow the local laws and dont snub our noses at them the better for each and every one of us.  Life is becoming more and more difficult for expats already, some of us even say that Thais dont want us here anymore. Set a good example I say and dont supply them any fuel.  And at the meagre cost of just wearing a mask when you are out.....come on.

 

Back to the health side, as I say we dont know enough about this virus and dont know who to believe.  If you glean thru all the info the common thread points to isolation, social distancing, and wearing masks.  For myself and my wife we enjoy staying at home.  We enjoy our own and each others company so isolation is no problem for us.  Social distancing and wearing a mask for a couple of hours each week is such a minuscule cost to put our own minds to rest that we feel safer during this unknown period but more so that we are not risking the health of others.

 

From my observations and discussions it is the ignorant, the vain, the selfish and the mentally troubled who wont follow the rules.  Vanity prevents a lot, especially Thais, from wearing masks....just as it also applies to helmets on bikes.  Ignorance and selfishness has people saying "Oh I'm young and strong so I wont catch it".  And the mentally disturbed cant stand their own company so will not obey quarantines, curfews, social distancing etc because they constantly need other peoples company and attention (Look at me, look at me no mask!!).  The old saying "boring people always complain of being bored" is so true.

 

But to get ANGRY with someone because they wont go partying together when it COULD POSSIBLY put their health and others at risk and break all the new laws being spouted out every day and especially when we are being noticed as the minority.  I have even offered to have get togethers via video call but no, still angry......no that's just plain selfishness.  Some friends you dont need.

If your afraid stay isolated until you feel its ok to venture outside. But if your not afraid use normal precautions thats it nothing fancy. For those who want to stay locked in what are your plans for the future if I may ask.