Buying a condo to rent it out

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, Capitalist said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You raise good points. May I ask in which neighborhood you saw that low occupancy rate?

I've seen the same low occupancy in central Bangkok recently. Lack of tourism really butchered the rental market, and there's tons of condos for sale. Supply is vast and demand is low. It's a buyers market right now.

 

I'm aware rents have dropped. Please note I'm not interested in getting quick yield/cashflows. I'm willing to wait a year or two for things to return normal again. In fact, I'm not even sure I want to rent it out, as I might want to live there myself, even if it's a few months per year. 

Just about every building along Sukhumvit and Rama4 and every soi in between.  I have a wide open unobstructed 270 degree panoramic view from 150 meters up and they’re pretty much empty.  If you’re only planning on using it a few months per year, you’d be better off renting.  Even during normal times, the P/E ratio is awful.  But, it’s your money…spend it as you like.
 

Speculating on appreciation is foolish here in BKK.  I can get better prices per square foot (meter) back in Los Angeles with much better P/E ratios and I’m sure it’s like that in any major city in any western country.  I wouldn’t waste my money on any illiquid investment that only brings in a couple hundred bucks a month.  And as soon as you need to replace an appliance, mattress, paint etc, there goes all your profit.  

[gargamon]

5 hours ago, Capitalist said:

I've been investing in stocks for 15 years and will continue to do so. I've had incredible results

Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. We've been in a bull market since about 2009, except for a few months when Covid hit. A monkey would have also had incredible results. It could have easily gone the other way and you would have easily been down 50% or more.

Edited June 19, 2021 by gargamon

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Or, you can simply invest the 250K into some decent ETFs. Given a reasonable return of 5-6%, you would generate $12,500-15,000 per year-similar to the rent you hope to get. With much less hassle and stress, no cash layout for apartment renovation and furnishing, etc.  

if only it were that simple, problem is prices go down as well as up, can't just look at recent history

[itsari]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

Just about every building along Sukhumvit and Rama4 and every soi in between.  I have a wide open unobstructed 270 degree panoramic view from 150 meters up and they’re pretty much empty.  If you’re only planning on using it a few months per year, you’d be better off renting.  Even during normal times, the P/E ratio is awful.  But, it’s your money…spend it as you like.
 

Speculating on appreciation is foolish here in BKK.  I can get better prices per square foot (meter) back in Los Angeles with much better P/E ratios and I’m sure it’s like that in any major city in any western country.  I wouldn’t waste my money on any illiquid investment that only brings in a couple hundred bucks a month.  And as soon as you need to replace an appliance, mattress, paint etc, there goes all your profit.  

Yes, agree with your last point , maintenance can eat into any expected profit . With condos there could be extra maintenance payments involved especially with the older buildings .

 One property is manageable , five would be a headache if not located in close proximity to each other.

[Capitalist]

1 hour ago, Airalee said:

Just about every building along Sukhumvit and Rama4 and every soi in between.  I have a wide open unobstructed 270 degree panoramic view from 150 meters up and they’re pretty much empty.  

Yep, I've stayed in Rama 4 too recently and that's been my experience as well. That's why in my post, I mentioned I was interested buying something outside of Bangkok.

 

Some of the commentors pointed out the headache that might come from renting it out, especially when you're not always nearby. I think that's a valid point. I'm happy to own it, and not rent it out. Just to have a second homebase that's always available to me, myself and I (and no one else). I don't see much risk in that.

[Yellowtail]

12 hours ago, Capitalist said:

I've been investing in stocks for 15 years and will continue to do so. I've had incredible results for which I am thankful, but I also realize it's wise to diversify at some point.

 

Why not start by buying a unit or three in your friend's buying?

[Destiny1990]

Where can i find and buy these 1,2 M bht condos that are fetching 230 usd..I am interested.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

maybe you should start by googling DUTCH MAN GET 100 YEARS JAIL TIME IN THAILAND and

than think again if you want to invest large amounts in thailand.

seriously.

why would you consider coming from organised and clean europe to invest

in third world thailand?

buying real esate abroad is allready hard enough, so it is even harder in a poor

country where english is not well spoken and the...well, just hink it over mate.

also check youtube for : nightmare tenants slam landlords

[Peterw42]

25 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Where can i find and buy these 1,2 M bht condos that are fetching 230 usd..I am interested.

Those figures can be found in Jomtien and other areas around Pattaya. Lots of condos for around 1-1.5 M baht and rents 5k-10k a month. 

Obviously its very bad finding tenants at the moment but when people start returning 1.2 M baht and 8k a month is very realistic and achievable.

[inThailand]

You want to learn to swim in an alligator pit?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

buy to let.....no foreigner should be doing that here..... not economic.....not recommended at all....... totally wrong use of $40k.......way too many problems with remote management of sourcing / selection, legal aquisition, furnishing, maintenance, tenants, agents, money movement..... and now condo massive over supply...... very good time to buy a permanent residence here though.....distress sales everywhere.....40k property is real “cheap charlie” bottom- of- the- barrel stuff though.......even now.....

[Scouse123]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:55 AM, Capitalist said:

Thank you Bojo for the links you shared in the private msg.

 

I have been to Pattaya and I do not like the place. Lots of old white drunkards, and bar-girls on the streets. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not my cup of tea. I prefer Bangkok, Samut Prakan or Nonthaburi. I also think the lower-end properties in these areas make for good, stable rentals. There's plenty of work, and a constant influx of young people from other provinces. It's less subject to seasonality. But I could be wrong.

Thank you, I also tried Google and will try it more. Indeed, the Thai Baht is a good currency. Never good to be 'all in' on one country or currency, but the Baht is a good one to diversify yourself into. It's never to late to make a small change, especially if you have children, they can reap the benefits of our modest investments long after we've passed.

 

 

Samut Prakan would be OK, plenty factories and export companies with a good amount of staff not only from neighboring provinces but neighboring countries and if you are buying a cheap condo, it should be within budget in this location for the market.

 

It depends what rent you are expecting!  You can get 5% in a Cambodian bank as a foreigner in a USD account, without the headache, more if you invest in the microfinance companies, up to 8%.

 

It is a renters market in nearly all areas at the moment.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Scouse123

[BritManToo]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:55 AM, Capitalist said:

There's plenty of work, and a constant influx of young people from other provinces.

Thai rental market typically is at 2,500bht/month in Chiang Mai/Lampun area.

[Nanaplaza666]

On 6/19/2021 at 9:54 PM, Capitalist said:

 

I know a Thai company that finds tenants, collects rent, and deals with maintenance requests. I'm willing to give steep discounts during and after the pandemic to ensure occupancy. 

 

If the first condo goes well, you could purchase more. Let's do the math using a real life example: My Thai friend is renting a condo for $230/month. I looked up the price of the condo if one were to buy it, it's under $40K. Owning 5 condo's would gross you $1150/month. All the condo's in that area are fully occupied. It's oustide of Bangkok so not sensitive to tourism. Rents always go up with inflation, and will recover post-pandemic. 

You seem to have figured it out all by yourself already so what's your qeustion about ?? You know where to buy , you have a Thai company doing all the work for you , you have all the math done . Don't realy understand what you need more then . Lijkt erop dat je alles al weet dus zie het nut van je vraag niet .

[Lacessit]

I was renting a condo in Chiang Mai until March 2020. My landlord had three apartments there, two of which have been empty for 4-5 years. The apartment I left has been empty ever since.

My condo in Chiang Rai has plenty of apartments for rent, 6500 baht/month for a fully-furnished unit with aircon, WiFi and kitchen is the best any landlord can get.

OP, save your money. With COVID, the customer base is almost non-existent.

[elgenon]

On 6/18/2021 at 10:55 AM, Capitalist said:

Thank you Bojo for the links you shared in the private msg.

 

I have been to Pattaya and I do not like the place. Lots of old white drunkards, and bar-girls on the streets. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not my cup of tea. I prefer Bangkok, Samut Prakan or Nonthaburi. I also think the lower-end properties in these areas make for good, stable rentals. There's plenty of work, and a constant influx of young people from other provinces. It's less subject to seasonality. But I could be wrong.

Thank you, I also tried Google and will try it more. Indeed, the Thai Baht is a good currency. Never good to be 'all in' on one country or currency, but the Baht is a good one to diversify yourself into. It's never to late to make a small change, especially if you have children, they can reap the benefits of our modest investments long after we've passed.

I remember the post from the guy who was going to Pattaya for the first time and insisted the proper way to dress was in 3-piece suits. Never heard a follow-up though, dang! I wanted to party with him.

 

Yes, different strokes for different blokes. Thank goodness.

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, elgenon said:

I remember the post from the guy who was going to Pattaya for the first time and insisted the proper way to dress was in 3-piece suits....

 

Shorts and a pair of go-aheads? 

[jomtienisgood]

On 6/19/2021 at 11:33 AM, Chris.B said:

 

Wow, a somewhat racist statement!! ☹️ 

 

I'll have you know, I haven't touched a drop of alcohol since breakfast time and its nearly 12 o'clock now!  ????????

 

And not all the ' drunkards' are white......

[jomtienisgood]

27 minutes ago, elgenon said:

I remember the post from the guy who was going to Pattaya for the first time and insisted the proper way to dress was in 3-piece suits. Never heard a follow-up though, dang! I wanted to party with him.

 

Yes, different strokes for different blokes. Thank goodness.

3-pieces: underwear, socks and condom???? 5555????????

[AgMech Cowboy]

Dear Capitalist, I've lived here for 20+ years and have bought house and land. I did not buy any properties to rent, though. In my 'humble' opinion... I would not buy any property here with the intent to make money or for investment. There is an over supply of condos and renters do not normally take care of their rental accommodation. Also, it's not easy to sale property here (and I'll leave it at that).

 

Good Luck!!!!

[Yellowtail]

I've been here over twenty years and I think there are absolutely properties you can buy that will provide positive cash flow, and there are properties you can buy and flip that you can make decent money on. 

 

But I do not believe you can do this without feet on the ground, pounding the pavement looking at every new listing that pops up. 

 

You could go to any most any new development and buy ten units on the same floor, and you could rent them out and have income. Whether or not that was a good investment depends on what you're expecting. 

 

The OP has about eight million Baht he wants to buy condos with, but has not interest in doing any real work to find them. His best bet would be to buy as many cheap units as he can on the same floor of the same building. 

[Capitalist]

19 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

Dear Capitalist, I've lived here for 20+ years and have bought house and land. I did not buy any properties to rent, though. In my 'humble' opinion... I would not buy any property here with the intent to make money or for investment. There is an over supply of condos and renters do not normally take care of their rental accommodation. Also, it's not easy to sale property here (and I'll leave it at that).

 

Good Luck!!!!

Thank you AgMech. I think you're right. Yesterday I spoke with an experience foreign who has invested in Thai real estate. I've now concluded that it might be a headache to rent out a unit (even though the experience might be fun).

 

I'm still interested in buying something, not too far from Bangkok. But mostly because I want a home-base that I can visit whenever I want. Since learning more, I've decided to ditch the idea of renting it out. This way I get the upside of the oversupply in condo's, while not having to deal with the headache that comes from managing a rental unit. Even though it would make for a fun and interesting new learning experience.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Capitalist

[OneMoreFarang]

I suggest buy a bar. You will make a lot of money and you have all the fun. Win/win all the way. ???? 

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I suggest buy a bar. You will make a lot of money and you have all the fun. Win/win all the way. ???? 

 

With an apartment "upstairs"...

[DefaultName]

I know people who rent out condos in Pattaya and I was thinking of doing the same.  One piece of advice that they all gave me is that you have to be there.  Doing it remotely leaves you open to all sorts of issues, from damage to repair/replace, theft, and outright dishonesty on those you trust to deal on your behalf.

 

IMO, do this where you live.

[ThailandRyan]

On 6/19/2021 at 11:33 AM, Chris.B said:

 

Wow, a somewhat racist statement!! ☹️ 

 

I'll have you know, I haven't touched a drop of alcohol since breakfast time and its nearly 12 o'clock now!  ????????

 

It's always 5 oclock somewhere, thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Not going to find much in BKK at the prices your looking at.  for 40K USD you might find an old beater of a condo on the outskirts, but the rental return would not make it worth the value, unless you want to become a slumlord.   Condos are rightly overpriced, but houses, townhouses and Villas are reasonable in some areas, depends on who you are thinking of marketing them towards, those with WP's, expats or Thais.

[Lucky Bones]

On 6/19/2021 at 12:49 AM, chickenslegs said:

The search facility on thaivisa is very poor. You will have more success using google and adding the word thaivisa to your search. For example googling "buying a condo to rent out in thailand thaivisa" gives several TV topics at the top of the page.

 

Can't help you with advice about buy to rent except to say that I regret not doing the same when I first moved here, 16 years ago, with a lump of money in my pockets. It would have given me a THB income, protected from the ever-changing exchange rate.

Yes, TVF appears to have gone backwards.

Damned if I can anything here apart from UbonJoe. Shutting up shop now.

[mrfaroukh]

Who is going to rent it? I used to pay 23000 bhat for a short time and 18000 bhat for long time rental of a flat worth 2.6 million in Pattaya. The rent for the same condo on long term is now 9000 bhat. If you buy a condo for 1.4 million and still can get 9000 bhat it may worth the Investment

[Yellowtail]

Just now, mrfaroukh said:

Who is going to rent it? I used to pay 23000 bhat for a short time and 18000 bhat for long time rental of a flat worth 2.6 million in Pattaya. The rent for the same condo on long term is now 9000 bhat. If you buy a condo for 1.4 million and still can get 9000 bhat it may worth the Investment

 

Wow, last short-time room I used was 300. 

[Peterphuket]

Well capitalist, try another way to invest your money.

I just sold my 2 condominiums, I bought also for investment en rent out through AIRBNB.

One in Cha-am and the other in Hua-hin.

It gives to much hassle and less profit, I'm very happy I sold them, and it took more than 1 year to sold them.

And if you like to know more about my experience, you can write me in dutch.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Peterphuket