Wise transfers not being processed as International (Specifically Bangkok Bank)

[bbko]

6 hours ago, JohnOFphon said:

Please tag my transfers to only go to my Bangkok Bank (BBL) account

Was money going to a different bank account?  Or did you mean tag your transfers so money is only routed through Bangkok Bank?

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Satisfied with WISE but seeing limits.

HSBC CI Offshore, Accepted / Recorded Auto Online, “Test” Transfer 4 Oct to WISE UK(all within UK Banking Sort Code System) has not arrived.

 

Gave WISE their full requested transfer info. but rejected as “not on bank form”. HSBC ignored two online messages so had to phone in for their tracking service….two days ago , no response yet from HSBC…..or Wise.

[scubascuba3]

29 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Satisfied with WISE but seeing limits.

HSBC CI Offshore, Accepted / Recorded Auto Online, “Test” Transfer 4 Oct to WISE UK(all within UK Banking Sort Code System) has not arrived.

 

Gave WISE their full requested transfer info. but rejected as “not on bank form”. HSBC ignored two online messages so had to phone in for their tracking service….two days ago , no response yet from HSBC…..or Wise.

if you use the correct reference when transfering to wise using uk bank account and sort code it arrives in seconds usually unless your bank blocks it due to checks

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

scuba: no choice when using online banking but to use HSBC drop down menu giving correct Wise Shoreditch Rd Name address, then with My Wise Name / AC No. Noticed that the drop down fixed Sort Code was Different but no control and often “ different” Generic SC used by sending bank.

their business not mine. but looks like they may have made ot my business.

 

actually there should be zero “ checking”. Its GBP ac to GBP ac inside UK banking system, 130 quid BUT its Offshore to Onshore. Different Sort Codes too. Suspect its held up in HSBC Jersey “back room” …….

[mojaco]

I have looked at two ways to send USD (dollar) funds for 65,000 Baht for Thai Immigration:  (1) the Wise conversion to Thai Baht "International" normal transfer to my Bangkok Bank account and (2) the USD (dollar) "Same Currency" transfer which is a SWIFT transfer in dollars to my Bangkok Bank account.  I fund all my transfers from my Borderless USD (dollar) account.

The sending of USD $2,450 in the same currency using SWIFT costs $3.41 from Wise, a possible fee from intermediary banks, and about $6.00 (200 Thai Baht) from Bangkok Bank.  Or, I could pay Wise a fee of $14.51 instead of $3.41 to cover whatever the intermediary bank charges might be.  So, for about $3.41+$6.00=$9.41 or at most $14.51+$6.00=$20.51 I can send my monthly funds for Immigration via SWIFT, which is guaranteed to show up as an International Transfer by Bangkok Bank.  My test transfer with the SWIFT method showed JPMorgan Chase Bank as the bank sending the funds to Bangkok Bank.

 

So, for a fairly low SWIFT charge of about $20 or a little less, and being willing to wait 3-4 days for the transfer to finalize, in order to guarantee the transfer shows up as "International" I will be using Wise's SWIFT transfer from now own.  Peace of Mind is worth it.  Plus I have my transfers set up as automatic monthly scheduled transfers, so I don't have to worry I might forget some month.  I will get a notice from them if my Borderless doesn't have enough funds in it some month.

 

Also sending funds "International", Wise charges me $14.42, but no Bangkok Bank charge.  So the cost differences is only $6 or so at most.  And the Exchange Rate by Wise is probably only slightly higher than the TT rate Bangkok Bank gives, but they are on different days also, so Bangkok Bank TT could be better or worse than Wise's, probably a little worse.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by mojaco
Added clarity

[Kwasaki]

16 pages and has anyone got it that Wise is OK. 

Bangkok Bank OK. ????

[scubascuba3]

46 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

scuba: no choice when using online banking but to use HSBC drop down menu giving correct Wise Shoreditch Rd Name address, then with My Wise Name / AC No. Noticed that the drop down fixed Sort Code was Different but no control and often “ different” Generic SC used by sending bank.

their business not mine. but looks like they may have made ot my business.

 

actually there should be zero “ checking”. Its GBP ac to GBP ac inside UK banking system, 130 quid BUT its Offshore to Onshore. Different Sort Codes too. Suspect its held up in HSBC Jersey “back room” …….

If you don't use the correct unique reference and Wise sort code and account number it probably goes to some suspense account where someone will try and reconcile it and probably return it eventually. Classic user error

Edited October 16, 2021 by scubascuba3

[theoldgit]

55 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

scuba: no choice when using online banking but to use HSBC drop down menu giving correct Wise Shoreditch Rd Name address, then with My Wise Name / AC No. Noticed that the drop down fixed Sort Code was Different but no control and often “ different” Generic SC used by sending bank.

their business not mine. but looks like they may have made ot my business.

 

actually there should be zero “ checking”. Its GBP ac to GBP ac inside UK banking system, 130 quid BUT its Offshore to Onshore. Different Sort Codes too. Suspect its held up in HSBC Jersey “back room” …….

Not using HSBC but I had a hiccup sending funds from our joint Santander account in the Isle of Man to Wise a couple of times last year.

 

I sent online and Wise said that they didn’t know that it from an account held by wife and I, they wanted all sorts of evidence that we were the account holders.

 

It later transpired that Santander were using a subsidiary to send the cash, which didn’t have our name on the account.

 

That issue seemed to have resolved itself, with the current one waiting in the wings.

 

 

[theoldgit]

22 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

16 pages and has anyone got it that Wise is OK. 

Bangkok Bank OK. ????

I think that Bangkok Bank and Wise are both ok, and do the tasks they were both set up to do.

 

It seems to me that the problem arises when people, like me, wish to use Wise to satisfy the scrutiny of Thai Immigration Officers that they bring in the required funds from overseas every month, when the funds aren’t really being imported.
 

Wise introduced a workaround, which now seems to be broken, albeit not for everybody, leaving a lot of us high and dry, and it seems that there is a reluctance by Wise to address the problem.

 

 

[pontious]

14 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Wise introduced a workaround, which now seems to be broken, albeit not for everybody, leaving a lot of us high and dry, and it seems that there is a reluctance by Wise to address the problem.

Best post in 16 pages.!!

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

oldgit: well we’ll soon see. this was a “test”, a first trial payment route, which both banks so far have failed. my workaround is to recall the funds and resend to my uk mainland hsbc ac and from there to wise uk, which routing I have already proven.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

I think that Bangkok Bank and Wise are both ok, and do the tasks they were both set up to do.

 

It seems to me that the problem arises when people, like me, wish to use Wise to satisfy the scrutiny of Thai Immigration Officers that they bring in the required funds from overseas every month, when the funds aren’t really being imported.
 

Wise introduced a workaround, which now seems to be broken, albeit not for everybody, leaving a lot of us high and dry, and it seems that there is a reluctance by Wise to address the problem.

 

Don't really understand a letter the Bkk bank drafts for me confirms to immigration that the money is in my Thai account.

 

So a letter from the Bkk bank confirming a 12 month statement showing monthly amounts paid into the account come from abroad  your saying is not good enough.

 

If 12 month system using Wise by members is a problem then go back to what they did before Transfer/Wise came into existence.

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

16 pages and has anyone got it that Wise is OK. 

Bangkok Bank OK. ????

Me so far this month. Monday afternoon around 2:05 will be the final clincher.

[Kwasaki]

Just now, billd766 said:

Me so far this month. Monday afternoon around 2:05 will be the final clincher.

OK but what don't get e.g. is if you have a statement from your UK bank showing an amount paid to Wise and the amount is paid into Bkk bk account by Wise.

You have a letter from Bkk bk stating the funds are from abroad using Wise, where's the problem with immigration.

[billd766]

28 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

OK but what don't get e.g. is if you have a statement from your UK bank showing an amount paid to Wise and the amount is paid into Bkk bk account by Wise.

You have a letter from Bkk bk stating the funds are from abroad using Wise, where's the problem with immigration.

The problem is with Immigration and if there is no mention of the funds coming in from offshore.

 

It isn't so bad at the Kamphaeng Phet office because it is a small office and the IO who does most of the extensions tends to know us and sometimes will let things like this slide. What it must be like at the head office in CW I have no idea. The last time I did my application in BKK it was at Suan Phlu and that was in the noughties or even earlier.

[Pib]

3 hours ago, mojaco said:

I have looked at two ways to send USD (dollar) funds for 65,000 Baht for Thai Immigration:  (1) the Wise conversion to Thai Baht "International" normal transfer to my Bangkok Bank account and (2) the USD (dollar) "Same Currency" transfer which is a SWIFT transfer in dollars to my Bangkok Bank account.  I fund all my transfers from my Borderless USD (dollar) account.

The sending of USD $2,450 in the same currency using SWIFT costs $3.41 from Wise, a possible fee from intermediary banks, and about $6.00 (200 Thai Baht) from Bangkok Bank.  Or, I could pay Wise a fee of $14.51 instead of $3.41 to cover whatever the intermediary bank charges might be.  So, for about $3.41+$6.00=$9.41 or at most $14.51+$6.00=$20.51 I can send my monthly funds for Immigration via SWIFT, which is guaranteed to show up as an International Transfer by Bangkok Bank.  My test transfer with the SWIFT method showed JPMorgan Chase Bank as the bank sending the funds to Bangkok Bank.

 

So, for a fairly low SWIFT charge of about $20 or a little less, and being willing to wait 3-4 days for the transfer to finalize, in order to guarantee the transfer shows up as "International" I will be using Wise's SWIFT transfer from now own.  Peace of Mind is worth it.  Plus I have my transfers set up as automatic monthly scheduled transfers, so I don't have to worry I might forget some month.  I will get a notice from them if my Borderless doesn't have enough funds in it some month.

 

Also sending funds "International", Wise charges me $14.42, but no Bangkok Bank charge.  So the cost differences is only $6 or so at most.  And the Exchange Rate by Wise is probably only slightly higher than the TT rate Bangkok Bank gives, but they are on different days also, so Bangkok Bank TT could be better or worse than Wise's, probably a little worse.

 

Good post, majaco.

 

And for others listening in, especially U.S. folks, below is the Wise webpage talking the Wise SWIFT fees....be sure to also click/read the embedded link regarding the countries you can send USD to (Thailand is one) as that embedded link also shows the optional extra SWIFT fee to protect your payment from intermediary bank fees....you'll see that optional fee is indeed $14 as mojaco said above.

 

https://wise.com/help/articles/2946451/sending-usd-to-countries-outside-the-us

 

But even using SWIFT, from Wise or your home country bank, does not 100% guarantee you will always get international transfer coding "if", repeat, if the last leg of the SWIFT transfer is routed through the Bank of Thailand BAHTNET system whose SWIFT code is "BOTHTHBP" or any other Thai financial entity that may have a SWIFT code on the BAHTNET system.   

 

U.S. folks who have their Social Security govt pension paid via  International Direct Deposit (IDD) which uses SWIFT or people who use OFX to transfer money who uses SWIFT should be aware their payments show-up as BAHTNET/BTN versus International Transfer/FTT.   However, a credit advice from Bangkok Bank will show the transfer was initiated from overseas.  The wife and I personally have experience with the IDD and OFX transfers/payments. 

 

Although a person will have no control over the specific routing thru the SWIFT system that the sending entity (such as Wise) will use if a test transfer gives you International Transfer coding then you should be good to go for future transfers showing up the same way...it's not 100% guaranteed but should about as close to 100% as a person can get.  The test transfer is critical to test the waters for coding purposes.

 

 

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

So a letter from the Bkk bank confirming a 12 month statement showing monthly amounts paid into the account come from abroad  your saying is not good enough.

 

If 12 month system using Wise by members is a problem then go back to what they did before Transfer/Wise came into existence.

But using Wise the funds don’t strictly speaking come from abroad, so unless Bangkok Bank continue to give the FTT coding, as they’ve done for the previous two years, I suspect the statements, bank book and credit advices, my local office require all three, won’t have that info and neither with the covering letter.

 

I think many members, including myself, would be only too pleased to supply the evidence that we used previously, and if our various consulates still supplied income source letters, that would solve the issue.

 

I’ve still got the option of sending from my IoM bank, quite expensive as it involves the cost of a phone call and an intermediary bank charge, or I could route via Bangkok Bank in London.

 

There’s of course always the option of keeping 800k tied up in a Thai bank got much of the year.

[mojaco]

10 minutes ago, Pib said:

Good post, majaco.

 

And for others listening in, especially U.S. folks, below is the Wise webpage talking the Wise SWIFT fees....be sure to also click/read the embedded link regarding the countries you can send USD to (Thailand is one) as that embedded link also shows the optional extra SWIFT fee to protect your payment from intermediary bank fees....you'll see that optional fee is indeed $14 as mojaco said above.

 

https://wise.com/help/articles/2946451/sending-usd-to-countries-outside-the-us

 

But even using SWIFT, from Wise or your home country bank, does not 100% guarantee you will always get international transfer coding "if", repeat, if the last leg of the SWIFT transfer is routed through the Bank of Thailand BAHTNET system whose SWIFT code is "BOTHTHBP" or any other Thai financial entity that may have a SWIFT code on the BAHTNET system.   

 

U.S. folks who have their Social Security govt pension paid via  International Direct Deposit (IDD) which uses SWIFT or people who use OFX to transfer money who uses SWIFT should be aware their payments show-up as BAHTNET/BTN versus International Transfer/FTT.   However, a credit advice from Bangkok Bank will show the transfer was initiated from overseas.  The wife and I personally have experience with the IDD and OFX transfers/payments. 

 

Although a person will have no control over the specific routing thru the SWIFT system that the sending entity (such as Wise) will use if a test transfer gives you International Transfer coding then you should be good to go for future transfers showing up the same way...it's not 100% guaranteed but should about as close to 100% as a person can get.  The test transfer is critical to test the waters for coding purposes.

 

 

When I set up Wise for SWIFT transfers, I chose BKKBTHBK as the SWIFT code.  Is it still possible that particular code could still end up in the BAHTNET system you talk about?

 

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, mojaco said:

When I set up Wise for SWIFT transfers, I chose BKKBTHBK as the SWIFT code.  Is it still possible that particular code could still end up in the BAHTNET system you talk about?

 

Yes.  When you send a SWIFT transfer it may not go "direct" to the receiving bank SWIFT code....it could be relayed thru one or more "intermediary" bank SWIFT codes before its final stop at the receiving bank SWIFT code.  One of those intermediary SWIFT codes could be a BAHTNET SWIFT code...that is, the last relay of the SWIFT trek.   All depends on the SWIFT routing/banking relationship the sending financial entity uses.

 

For example, take a look at this couple years old ThaiVisa post which talks the SWIFT routing of a Social Security pension payment made via "IDD" which uses SWIFT.   You'll see "three intermediary banks/SWIFT codes were used between the U.S. Treasury launching point and its landing point at the Bangkok Bank SWIFT code....with the next to last point being a BAHTNET SWIFT code.  Since the last leg of the transfer was from the BAHTNET SWIFT code to the Bangkok Bank SWIFT code Bangkok Bank gave BAHTNET/BTN coding vs International Transfer/FTT coding.

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Pib

[theoldgit]

59 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

OK but what don't get e.g. is if you have a statement from your UK bank showing an amount paid to Wise and the amount is paid into Bkk bk account by Wise.

You have a letter from Bkk bk stating the funds are from abroad using Wise, where's the problem with immigration.

But that’s still the route of the problem, the statements from the UK would show transfers to Wise, mine certainly would, but unless the FTT codes are reinstated, I doubt very much if BKK would issue a letter confirming the funds came from overseas.

 

As it’s to meet a requirement by Immigration, I honestly can’t see them working their way through a paper trail, especially with their inconsistencies.

[bbko]

3 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Wise introduced a workaround, which now seems to be broken, albeit not for everybody, leaving a lot of us high and dry, and it seems that there is a reluctance by Wise to address the problem.

Plan A) Pay a little more and wait a few days extra and use Wise's SWIFT transfer for a 100% guarantee of getting the FTT code

Plan B) Ask Wise to tag your transfers to only route your transfers through Bank Bank and HOPE they do as asked and if they do happen to send the transfer through Kasikorn Bank, visit a K Bank International Trade Center and get a international statement from them for 200b.

Plan C) Bypass Wise and tell your bank to do a SWIFT transfer every month.

 

All 3 ways will get the much needed FTT code.

[mojaco]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yes.  When you send a SWIFT transfer it may not go "direct" to the receiving bank SWIFT code....it could be relayed thru one or more "intermediary" bank SWIFT codes before its final stop at the receiving bank SWIFT code.  One of those intermediary SWIFT codes could be a BAHTNET SWIFT code...that is, the last relay of the SWIFT trek.   All depends on the SWIFT routing/banking relationship the sending financial entity uses.

Thanks for the insight to all of this.  I did send a test SWIFT: BKKBTHBK using Wise and it showed up as International transfer.  I also used that same code from three other financial sources in the USA and they all showed up as International transfers.  Three of those sources took less than one day to be in the Bangkok Bank account, whereas Wise took about three days (from Monday to Thursday).  Based on what you have said, I may try one more test with Wise immediately before my November transfer for Immigration.

[Pib]

1 minute ago, mojaco said:

Thanks for the insight to all of this.  I did send a test SWIFT: BKKBTHBK using Wise and it showed up as International transfer.  I also used that same code from three other financial sources in the USA and they all showed up as International transfers.  Three of those sources took less than one day to be in the Bangkok Bank account, whereas Wise took about three days (from Monday to Thursday).  Based on what you have said, I may try one more test with Wise immediately before my November transfer for Immigration.

Maybe you saw already, but I edited my earlier post to show an actual SWIFT routing and the multiple intermediary SWIFT codes/banks that were used by the sending financial entity....with the last relay SWIFT code being the Bank of Thailand BAHTNET SWIFT code.

[treetops]

12 hours ago, mojaco said:

Just found that if I plan to send USD $1,494 or more from my Borderless account to my "tagged" Bangkok Bank account it plans to arrive on October 18.  If $1,493 or less it plans to arrive "in seconds".  Interesting.  But at least I seem to get a warning whether it will go through Bangkok Bank as my Partner Bank or not.

50,000 baht limit hit somewhere?

[mojaco]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

Maybe you saw already, but I edited my earlier post to show an actual SWIFT routing and the multiple intermediary SWIFT codes/banks that were used by the sending financial entity....with the last relay SWIFT code being the Bank of Thailand BAHTNET SWIFT code.

Thank you.  I just now looked at the routing you showed as an example.  So even if one specifies BKKBTHBK, the sending entity can start sending it however they want as long as it ends up at BKKBTHBK?  And Bangkok Bank isn't wise enough to know that the routing initialized with BKKBTHBK as an international entity?  Wonderful system of confusion that reigns in this modern world of ours.  I suppose if one of my SWIFT fails, I can send another transmission using one of my other $50-$60 SWIFT options.  And return funds back to the USA via Dee if necessary.  But at least the current confusion with the "International" Wise transfers would not be the issue.

 

Or I might use Fidelity (FREE send) if my test send from them shows up as International with Bangkok Bank.  But "Free" sounds like they may use any number of alternate low cost systems to transfer money . . . or maybe it is a system they have just exactly like the Wise system . . . no actual transfer at all?

Edited October 16, 2021 by mojaco
Added info

[treetops]

14 minutes ago, bbko said:

Plan A) Pay a little more and wait a few days extra and use Wise's SWIFT transfer for a 100% guarantee of getting the FTT code

Plan B) Ask Wise to tag your transfers to only route your transfers through Bank Bank and HOPE they do as asked and if they do happen to send the transfer through Kasikorn Bank, visit a K Bank International Trade Center and get a international statement from them for 200b.

Plan C) Bypass Wise and tell your bank to do a SWIFT transfer every month.

 

All 3 ways will get the much needed FTT code.

Plan A is not available to everyone as discussed already in this thread.

Plan B is going back to the "old" way before the "long stay" solution was implemented and is still not guaranteed 100% effective, also as already discussed.

Plan C is the "old old" way that historically cost significantly more for most that everyone wanted to avoid, hence the welcome (Transfer)Wise got to the party.

 

Whatever has changed at Wise, I think someone who knows the history will eventually become aware of it and restore us to where we were two weeks ago, and it'll all go quiet for another couple of years.

[mojaco]

8 minutes ago, treetops said:

50,000 baht limit hit somewhere?

That was my guess.  After all of the current confusion dies down in a week or two, I may try seeing if that apparent break point between instant transfer not using Bangkok Bank as the Partner bank, and usual one day or more transfer as in the past still occurs.  Obviously Wise is doing things differently.

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, mojaco said:

Thank you.  I just now looked at the routing you showed as an example.  So even if one specifies BKKBTHBK, the sending entity can start sending it however they want as long as it ends up at BKKBTHBK?  And Bangkok Bank isn't wise enough to know that the routing initialized with BKKBTHBK as an international entity?  Wonderful system of confusion that reigns in this modern world of ours.  I suppose if one of my SWIFT fails, I can send another transmission using one of my other $50-$60 SWIFT options.  And return funds back to the USA via Dee if necessary.  But at least the current confusion with the "International" Wise transfers would not be the issue.

 

Or I might use Fidelity (FREE send) if my test send from them shows up as International with Bangkok Bank.  But "Free" sounds like they may use any number of alternate low cost systems to transfer money . . . or maybe it is a system they have just exactly like the Wise system . . . no actual transfer at all?

In our ever changing world of how to move money between two points as cheaply as possible and how financial entities such as banks (and Wise) can make agreements with certain intermediary/partner banks to move money, the description/coding that appears on a person's bank statement/passbook can change because of how the money flowed. 

 

A person has to have a Plan B if their servicing immigration office requires "Thai bank" docs to prove monthly international transfers.  If international transfer/FTT-type coding does not appear on their statement/passbook which may prevent the bank from giving a special annual statement showing only FTT-type coding transfers then a person needs to get into the habit of getting Credit Advice from the Thai bank. 

 

A Credit Advice will show the funds originated from outside Thailand.  And it's best not to wait longer than 3 months to ask for a Credit Advice as Thai bank typically do not charge a fee for a Credit Advice if the transfer is not over 3 months old.

 

 

[pontious]

24 minutes ago, treetops said:

Whatever has changed at Wise, I think someone who knows the history will eventually become aware of it and restore us to where we were two weeks ago, and it'll all go quiet for another couple of years.

I agree - no-one will say it is there fault. Hopefully.! It will go back to normal. If it does not there will be a lot of <deleted> off customers.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, theoldgit said:

But that’s still the route of the problem, the statements from the UK would show transfers to Wise, mine certainly would, but unless the FTT codes are reinstated, I doubt very much if BKK would issue a letter confirming the funds came from overseas.

 

As it’s to meet a requirement by Immigration, I honestly can’t see them working their way through a paper trail, especially with their inconsistencies.

Well the only answer is don't use Wise and have the money sent by the (in my case) UK bank to the Thai bank..

OK it's costs a bit more and last time I look my UK bank cost it was reasonable less than what it use cost from memory.

If immigration won't except Wise payments not showing in the bank book you have no choice.