Duration of health insurance req'd for Thailand Pass for non 'o' retirement visa holders

[GreasyFingers]

Looks like I am going to caught up in this mess when visiting home country just after extension renewal. Does anyone know of policies with high excess to bring the price down.

[khunPer]

What seems to be quite confusing is, if the $50,000 so-called "health insurance" is the former $100,000 Covid-19 insurance, just reduced to half coverage, or if it means a real health insurance - i.e. cannot be a travel insurance if are living permanently in Thailand - such an insurance might be almost impossible for numerous elder expats.

[redwood1]

2 hours ago, StevieAus said:

I know of a few retirees some younger than you who have previously tried to obtain medical / health insurance before these travel provisions were introduced and were rejected for a variety of reasons so potentially there are going to be a lot of “ trapped retirees”

Also for those coming to Thailand for a cheap holiday I cannot see them wanting to buy insurance for each family member if that is required.

As usual another policy not well thought out regarding the implications.

What about the Indians? They seem to like to travel to Thailand in big family groups.....Are they really going to be buying this insurance for everyone in the extended family?.......I just can't see this insurance being to popular with Indians at all or any other tourist for that matter...

[davjensteph]

Tge way i read it,,o-a visa needs insurance as that is what you get when applying from thai embassey in your country..but if you have a non o which you got in thailand you dont need the insurance..

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, Salerno said:

Agreed, and getting tired of the constant "insurance scam" posts but never seem to get a reply when I call someone out on it, even posted a list of countries that have had insurance requirements since before Covid and the silence is deafening ... then "insurance scam!" again 555

 

I am one of these posters who refer to this insurance as a scam. I will put it simply, up until the 1st Nov the Cvirus insurance was for $100.000, that was way over the top, the average person who gets this virus recovers in around 4 or 5 weeks, yes, there are exceptions, the obese, heavy drinkers and smokers, over 60s etc, I am going by what I read on this forum. you see the amount of recoveries every day.

[murraynz]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You are correct that the insurance needs to valid to the day your extension of stay expires in January. That is the day you will be stamped into the country.

Joe, I am about to renew my non O based on retirement,  by 28 November. 

I have NZ passport ,I'm 70yrs old,  and I will leave 800,000 in my Thai bank account. At this stage while vivid remains.. I don't intend to leave Thailand.. 

Will I need to purchase any vivid insurance, to renew my visa??? 

[superal]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

I do not believe this entry requirement is in any way a local money making "scam".  It is prompted by genuine concern about unpaid hospital bills.

 

Unfortunately the solution being applied is poorly thought out and fails to take into account a cost of factors.

Thanks Sheryl because I agree that there are areas of concern , some of below .

That is merely an excuse to introduce the insurance (IMHO ) . The Thai government know exactly what the effects / repercussions will be that this event will cause .

In the last 2 years I have had to be an inpatient in both Government and Private hospitals . The Gov hospitals require daily payments and that's before the end of the day . I was billed for every minute of nursing attention , plus of course the doctors fee which was never small . My lady had to visit the ATM regularly to settle the daily bill .

The Private hospitals , some want payment up front but those who did not will give an estimate of fees and ask how you will pay , with the final bill always over the original estimate .

Unpaid hospital bills are a thing of the past in the broader aspect . The hospital will have traceable information on you which would make it almost impossible to dodge hospital fees .

Unpaid hospital bills by long term farangs in Thailand must be miniscule and this health insurance is a sledgehammer to crack a nut . Long stay farangs should be exempt and be able to leave the country and return without this new insurance requirement .  However I think we all know that this is a way of filtering out the farangs who are not wealthy .

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, murraynz said:

Will I need to purchase any vivid insurance, to renew my visa?

No

[mtls2005]

Additionally, and it's still early on with this change from $100,000 COVID insurance, to $50,000 HEALTH insurance, a lot of the policies I've quickly skimmed appear to not cover "Asymptomatic" confinement. Some say they do cover this, but then in the details mention that only medical treatment - and not hospiTEL confinement - is covered.

 

Right now the ~ 2,250 - 3,500 THB/30 days (TUNE, AXA) is not a deal-breaker, but if it doesn't protect from a 50,000 - 150,000 confinement bill from a potentially false positive it might become one. 

 

Agree with superal that unpaid hospital bills for foreigners is a logical fallacy, and a flawed argument.

 

They simply do not let people leave without payment in full, or perhaps for Thais, some sort of payment plan. IME, not as a patient but as a visitor, staff keep a close eye on folks as they near recovery/discharge. Without a significant distraction you're not doing a runner.

[murraynz]

4 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

No

Great... Thanks.. What about if I do any small trips away from Thailand. Say two weeks, then return. 

 

[Will B Good]

15 hours ago, davjensteph said:

Tge way i read it,,o-a visa needs insurance as that is what you get when applying from thai embassey in your country..but if you have a non o which you got in thailand you dont need the insurance..

Non-O is initially valid for 90 days, yes?

 

You can then extend it based on marriage (it remains a Non-O) or on retirement, but it then becomes a Non-O-A.

 

Is that correct?

Edited November 6, 2021 by Will B Good

[Kopitiam]

32 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Non-O is initially valid for 90 days, yes?

 

You can then extend it based on marriage (it remains a Non-O) or on retirement, but it then becomes a Non-O-A.

 

Is that correct?

A Non-O doesn't suddenly changed to Non-OA when you go for retirement extension.  You can get Retirement extension for both Non-O and Non-OA visa.

[Will B Good]

10 minutes ago, Kopitiam said:

A Non-O doesn't suddenly changed to Non-OA when you go for retirement extension.  You can get Retirement extension for both Non-O and Non-OA visa.

Thanks.

 

 

I give up.

[Postmaster]

Just sit tight until it all goes away....away....away....away

[Salerno]

15 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I am one of these posters who refer to this insurance as a scam. I will put it simply, up until the 1st Nov the Cvirus insurance was for $100.000, that was way over the top, the average person who gets this virus recovers in around 4 or 5 weeks, yes, there are exceptions, the obese, heavy drinkers and smokers, over 60s etc, I am going by what I read on this forum. you see the amount of recoveries every day.

I'll put it simply as well, you and all the others keep banging on about a Thai scam which is nonsense and just your usual narrative. If the Covid policy had to be bought from a Thai company it may have some merit, but it never has and still doesn't. What kind of "scam" is set up to make unconnected 3rd parties money?

 

The same people that spout this nonsense also seem ignorant of the fact there are other countries around the world that have insurance requirements for entry even before Covid. Acknowledging that fact doesn't fit their narrative.

[Rimmer]

An undecipherable gobbledygook  post and a post in Swedish language has been removed, this is an English Language forum.

[skatewash]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:42 PM, Robin said:

This level of insurance becomes prohibitive for any retiree, like me, over 75.  Looks to me as if i am now trapped in Thailand for life, can go back to UK and stay there.

if there any way of working round this?

I want to retire to Thailand, with the option to travel back to UK, or anywhere else i want to/ can afford to.  Now that seems o be taken away, Thailand becomes less attractive.

How do Thailand Elite Visa holders fit into this?

My impression is that this medical insurance is a way of Thailand screwing us for more money.

Not only is this going to affect Retirees, but how many genuine tourists will want to pay for this insurance?

Is this he end of Thailand as the free and easy travel destination?  

Is there any chance that this rule will be dropped if/when it is seen to reduce tourist numbers?

A workaround to the insurance mandate:

Minimize the period of time for which you will granted initial permission to stay, because it is this permission to stay that determines how long your mandated insurance must be in place.

Instead of re-entering Thailand with a re-entry permit and being stamped in for permission to stay up until the expiry of the re-entry permit (which can be a year away), enter Thailand visa-exempt.

To do this you must first make sure your current extension of stay will end when you exit Thailand.  The simplest way to do this is NOT to have a re-entry permit, that is, don't purchase one.  Leave Thailand without a re-entry permit.  

When applying for a Thailand Pass to return to Thailand choose the visa-exempt entry.  You will be stamped in for 30 days permission to stay during which you must be covered by the Thai Immigration health insurance mandate of $50,000 USD coverage (to include covid) for the 30 day period.  

As early as you can but at least before you have 15 days remaining on your permission to stay apply for a Non-O visa at your local immigration office, cost 2,000 baht.  You will be given a permission to stay of 90 days.  As early as possible (30-45 days remaining in your permission to stay) apply for your retirement extension for 1,900 baht.  None of the things in this paragraph require you to have the Thai Immigration mandated health insurance coverage.

You would need to do the same whenever you leave and re-enter Thailand.  Obviously, this doesn't make leaving Thailand very desirable, except perhaps once a year.

[superal]

8 hours ago, Salerno said:

I'll put it simply as well, you and all the others keep banging on about a Thai scam which is nonsense and just your usual narrative. If the Covid policy had to be bought from a Thai company it may have some merit, but it never has and still doesn't. What kind of "scam" is set up to make unconnected 3rd parties money?

 

The same people that spout this nonsense also seem ignorant of the fact there are other countries around the world that have insurance requirements for entry even before Covid. Acknowledging that fact doesn't fit their narrative.

Tourists on say a 2 or 3 week holiday will qualify to enter Thailand with travel insurance that is in most cases not too expensive but for Thailand based retirees who are returning to Thailand after a trip abroad  long term health insurance is a different matter . The private health insurance in Thailand is beyond the means of many expats , some of whom have lived here for many years , married and have families in Thailand . There has been no empathy or consideration given to these cases . 

Why would the Thai government design the C.O.E. and incorporate a $100k covid insurance( without health insurance ) and in the same year announce the renaissance of Thailand along with a reconfigured C.O.E. in the guise of the Thailand Pass which now includes $50k health insurance , knowing full well that it is not achievable for many expats . Don't have to be a Sherlock to work it out . Now if the government were sincere they could enroll long stay expats onto their universal health care system , which is aligned with government hospitals , and charge an annual fee of income of 14 % which is approximately the tax rate that covers employed Thais and entitles them to medical services . New retirees could be an alternative arrangement .  

[skatewash]

18 hours ago, murraynz said:

Great... Thanks.. What about if I do any small trips away from Thailand. Say two weeks, then return. 

 

Depends on what basis you return to Thailand.  If you arrive visa-exempt you will need 30 days coverage of $50,000 USD health insurance including covid.  If you arrive on a re-entry permit you will need coverage up until the expiration of the re-entry permit (which can be up to a year plus).  If you arrive on a new Non-O visa you will need 90 days coverage.  Under the current rules the only way you can re-enter Thailand and not have to have health insurance coverage is if you become a Thai citizen.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, skatewash said:

Under the current rules the only way you can re-enter Thailand and not have to have health insurance coverage is if you become a Thai citizen.

Or have Thai SS.

[skatewash]

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

Or have Thai SS.

Yep, I forgot that exemption.

[Boomer6969]

On 11/5/2021 at 1:15 PM, MJCM said:

Wow if that is the case, then I would suggest that people (who don't have health insurance) and are on a Extension of Stay travel BACK to Thailand very close to their extension renewal date! and buy a short duration Insurance only!!

 

This is certainly a loophole!

 

There's another one, for those who have to travel early in their extension, just do it without reentry permit. Come back without visa, apply for Non-O, and restart extension. That's a couple of days work but well worth the 30000 savings to be made.

 

Also, it is probably easier if married in Thailand.

[MJCM]

54 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

There's another one, for those who have to travel early in their extension, just do it without reentry permit. Come back without visa, apply for Non-O, and restart extension. That's a couple of days work but well worth the 30000 savings to be made.

 

Also, it is probably easier if married in Thailand.

If you are on a Retirement Extension it could work, but if you are on a extension of Marriage then I disagree.

 

Reason being, your application approval (Marriage extension) is NOT done by your local Immigration but the regional headquarters and you have to also get your witnesses in order also a Home Visit will be part of the deal as you will be treated as a NEW applicant with all the (increasing) scrutiny that goes with it! So a lot more difficult then Retirement Extension.

 

Also what kind of visa (in this case) are you using to enter Thailand? Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa?

 

If Visa Exempt, 2 questions:

 

1) Can you convert from Visa Exempt to NON-O (and does every immigration office do this??)

2) Will the airliner that flies you in will not want to see a return ticket??

Edited November 7, 2021 by MJCM

[Salerno]

7 minutes ago, MJCM said:

1) Can you convert from Visa Exempt to NON-O (and does every immigration office do this??)

Yes.

 

7 minutes ago, MJCM said:

2) Will the airliner that flies you in will not want to see a return ticket??

Possibly (onward ticket not necessarily return), easily mitigated with a $10-15 throwaway ticket.

[hotandsticky]

On 11/5/2021 at 1:12 PM, DrJack54 said:

Correct.

Sort of ridiculous.

I just renewed my extension and would like to visit Oz briefly early next year.

Will mean that I will be stamped in with ~ 10 months on my entry stamp.

Insurance required for that period. Stupid.

 

Yep.  I was thinking of traveling just after renewing my extension next May................................I am now thinking of traveling BEFORE so that I arrive back in the month my current extension expires. 30 days cover, Bingo!

 

Not my first choice, but not a bad second choice either.

[Boomer6969]

2 hours ago, MJCM said:

Reason being, your application approval (Marriage extension) is NOT done by your local Immigration but the regional headquarters and you have to also get your witnesses in order also a Home Visit will be part of the deal as you will be treated as a NEW applicant with all the (increasing) scrutiny that goes with it! So a lot more difficult then Retirement Extension.

And what can be the problem with that? I have nothing to hide and have cohorts of potential witnesses. I am MARRIED and been with my wife for 7 years, the whole district knows us...

 

Of course when marriages are fake...

 

Now when I said "probably easier for marriage" I was referring to the initial in-country Non-O, I am not even sure if the remain available for the purpose of immigration. The extensions are pretty much "same same" between Marriage and Retirement: be Kosher and it will be easy.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Boomer6969

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

The extensions are pretty much "same same" between Marriage and Retirement:

Nothing like it. Completely different requirements.

 

BTW....."I was referring to the initial in-country Non-O, I am not even sure if the remain available for the purpose of immigration."

 

NON O based on marriage is available at immigration inside Thailand.

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Nothing like it. Completely different requirements.

 

BTW....."I was referring to the initial in-country Non-O, I am not even sure if the remain available for the purpose of immigration."

 

NON O based on marriage is available at immigration inside Thailand.

I've been toying with setting myself a challenge and narrowed it down to.............. understanding string theory or getting a grip of Thai visas.

 

String theory here I come.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Will B Good

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

String theory here I come.

Now I feel ignorant.

I had to Google String Theory.

 

In physics, string theory is a theoretical framework in which the point-like particles of particle physics are replaced by one-dimensional objects called strings .... 

 

Keep in mind that in my yr 12 physics we used slide rules. 

 

Visa matters are fluid due to the sentence many type...

"every immigration office and officer can have their own rules"

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Now I feel ignorant.

I had to Google String Theory.

 

In physics, string theory is a theoretical framework in which the point-like particles of particle physics are replaced by one-dimensional objects called strings .... 

 

Keep in mind that in my yr 12 physics we used slide rules. 

 

Visa matters are fluid due to the sentence many type...

"every immigration office and officer can have their own rules"

 

Try googling M theory.......555