Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[lexor]

10 minutes ago, Saanim said:

 

 

The shooting happened at a Ukrainian checkpoint  well within a swath of territory that remains within the lines controlled by Ukrainian forces.

The New York Times confirmed that the incident occurred at a Ukrainian checkpoint.
“Capt. Oleksandr Bogai, the deputy chief of police in Irpin, said Mr. Renaud was shot in the head when Russian forces fired at his car, which was being driven by a local civilian across a Ukrainian checkpoint near the northern border of Irpin.”
This again establishes that Renaud had been moving through Ukrainian, not Russian checkpoints.

It's quite possible, Brent Renaud was killed by Ukrainian forces. And instead of taking responsibility for the tragic shooting, the Ukrainians used Renaud’s death as an instrument to advance a propaganda campaign against their enemy.

 

[Bkk Brian]

22 minutes ago, lexor said:

The shooting happened at a Ukrainian checkpoint  well within a swath of territory that remains within the lines controlled by Ukrainian forces.

The New York Times confirmed that the incident occurred at a Ukrainian checkpoint.
“Capt. Oleksandr Bogai, the deputy chief of police in Irpin, said Mr. Renaud was shot in the head when Russian forces fired at his car, which was being driven by a local civilian across a Ukrainian checkpoint near the northern border of Irpin.”
This again establishes that Renaud had been moving through Ukrainian, not Russian checkpoints.

It's quite possible, Brent Renaud was killed by Ukrainian forces. And instead of taking responsibility for the tragic shooting, the Ukrainians used Renaud’s death as an instrument to advance a propaganda campaign against their enemy.

 

The Kemlin would be proud of stating your possibilities. I hear they are very good at spewing out a few of their own.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[RJRS1301]

22 minutes ago, lexor said:

The shooting happened at a Ukrainian checkpoint  well within a swath of territory that remains within the lines controlled by Ukrainian forces.

The New York Times confirmed that the incident occurred at a Ukrainian checkpoint.
“Capt. Oleksandr Bogai, the deputy chief of police in Irpin, said Mr. Renaud was shot in the head when Russian forces fired at his car, which was being driven by a local civilian across a Ukrainian checkpoint near the northern border of Irpin.”
This again establishes that Renaud had been moving through Ukrainian, not Russian checkpoints.

It's quite possible, Brent Renaud was killed by Ukrainian forces. And instead of taking responsibility for the tragic shooting, the Ukrainians used Renaud’s death as an instrument to advance a propaganda campaign against their enemy.

 

Considering that have bombed hospitals, kindergartens, have hostages in basements as human shields, and theatres with the word children written in white outside it, nothing would surprise me

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

 

Quote

'We had crossed the first bridge in Irpin. We were going to film other refugees leaving we got into a car. Somebody offered to take us to the other bridge.

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

 We crossed a checkpoint and they started shooting at us. The driver turned around, there were two of us. My friend is Brent Renaud. He has been shot and left behind. I saw

You are mis-understanding the 2nd written broad script.

Russian sniper shot him I would say. 

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

Actually, in his country there are not cases of such a way of removing a sitting president (as it had happened elsewhere...)  

There is a saying in English: “there is a first for everything”. So because something hasn’t happened so far doesn’t automatically mean it will never happen. Like I said, one can always hope…..

[Saanim]

The problem is that there are almost no independent reporters there. The OSCE monitoring was ordered in the first days of the war to leave the country in their powerful white SUV's, after they publicized their finding:

 

KYIV 21 February 2022

Based on information from the Monitoring Teams as of 19:30 20 February 2022. All times are in Eastern European Time.

Summary

• In Donetsk region, between the evenings of 18 and 20 February, the SMM recorded 2,158 ceasefire violations, including 1,100 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 591 ceasefire violations in the region.
• In Luhansk region, between the evenings of 18 and 20 February, the Mission recorded 1,073 ceasefire violations, including 926 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 975 ceasefire violations in the region.

 https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512683

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, lexor said:

The shooting happened at a Ukrainian checkpoint  well within a swath of territory that remains within the lines controlled by Ukrainian forces.

The New York Times confirmed that the incident occurred at a Ukrainian checkpoint.
“Capt. Oleksandr Bogai, the deputy chief of police in Irpin, said Mr. Renaud was shot in the head when Russian forces fired at his car, which was being driven by a local civilian across a Ukrainian checkpoint near the northern border of Irpin.”
This again establishes that Renaud had been moving through Ukrainian, not Russian checkpoints.

It's quite possible, Brent Renaud was killed by Ukrainian forces. And instead of taking responsibility for the tragic shooting, the Ukrainians used Renaud’s death as an instrument to advance a propaganda campaign against their enemy.

 

Let’s not forget the fact that the victim of this shooting, like thousands of others in Ukraine would still be alive if Russia has not illegally invaded.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Saanim said:

The problem is that there are almost no independent reporters there. The OSCE monitoring was ordered in the first days of the war to leave the country in their powerful white SUV's, after they publicized their finding:

 

KYIV 21 February 2022

Based on information from the Monitoring Teams as of 19:30 20 February 2022. All times are in Eastern European Time.

Summary

• In Donetsk region, between the evenings of 18 and 20 February, the SMM recorded 2,158 ceasefire violations, including 1,100 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 591 ceasefire violations in the region.
• In Luhansk region, between the evenings of 18 and 20 February, the Mission recorded 1,073 ceasefire violations, including 926 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 975 ceasefire violations in the region.

 https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine/512683

 

 

Yes its a shame as they provided some excellent reporting and factual evidence that countered the Russian propoganda:

 

"With the SMM’s indefinite departure, Ukrainian diplomats and Western leaders lose an important resource to counter the false narratives that the Kremlin uses to justify Russia’s aggressive campaign against Ukraine and mischaracterize the activities of its forces."

https://www.csis.org/analysis/consequences-temporary-evacuation-osce-ukraine

 

However no problem a far more reaching investigation is now ongoing directly from The International War Crimes Tribunal who are in Ukraine now:

 

ICC prosecutor: Team leaves to investigate war crimes in Ukraine

[Bkk Brian]

23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s not forget the fact that the victim of this shooting, like thousands of others in Ukraine would still be alive if Russia has not illegally invaded.

This victim being a journalist has the same rights as civilians and his murder is considered a war crime.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This victim being a journalist has the same rights as civilians and his murder is considered a war crime.

Some find his killing and the killings of thousands of others a matter for mirth.

 

 

[sammieuk1]

8 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

 

What ever a democratically elected government dose within its own borders is really up to them and the majority of its people however thin skinned your psychopathic dictator next door neighbor quoting history is as simple  as that????

Edited March 18, 2022 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

You are mis-understanding the 2nd written broad script.

Russian sniper shot him I would say. 

Yes. Most likely.

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Some find his killing and the killings of thousands of others a matter for mirth.

 

 

which shows how disgusting they really are

 

[RJRS1301]

46 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

What ever a democratically elected government dose within its own borders is really up to them and the majority of its people however thin skinned your psychopathic dictator next door neighbor quoting history is as simple  as that????

So killing civilians in escape refugees convoys is acting in good faith?

keeping hostages in hospital basements is good faith>?

bombing theatres sheltering children is in good faith?

Russia and good faith is an oxymoron

 

 

[Rimmer]

An unattributed post and replies has been removed

[Chris.B]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

This victim being a journalist has the same rights as civilians and his murder is considered a war crime.

A journalist is a civilian in my book. ????

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Chris.B said:

A journalist is a civilian in my book. ????

 

Sure but as opposed to a soldier where then it would not be a war crime.

[Chris.B]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sure but as opposed to a soldier where then it would not be a war crime.

Most civilians, in a war zone, do not have a choice of being there. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Chris.B said:

Most civilians, in a war zone, do not have a choice of being there. 

 

Not sure what that has to do with the legal status of a journalist? Just because he knows there are risks they are still afforded the rights of a civilian. There are also millions of civilians in Ukraine who are there willingly and know the risks.

[impulse]

8 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Not sure what you're on about here - most countries have laws that allow the seizure of an individual's assets when that country's authorities consider it appropriate. 

 

In the US for instance they have the Magnitsky Act, passed in 2016, which applies globally and authorizes the U.S. government to sanction individuals, freeze their assets, and ban them from entering the US.

 

The EU no doubt has similar laws.

If you go back to the original post I've been responding to, the poster claimed that doing business in Russia was risky because there is no rule of law and they're confiscating airliners.

 

Here, you're claiming that there are laws that allow it. 

 

I'm just saying you can't have it both ways.  If you're going to confiscate Russian assets, don't complain if they confiscate western assets.

[Saanim]

19 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

he was wearing his out dated NYT press card but "Time Magazine" confirmed he was in fact working for them on assignment covering the refugee crisis.

Obviously "Time Magazine" (?) has not had any batch spare, so he better put on a NYT batch where he hadn't had any business over 7 years with? 

 

Renaud had been a regular contributor to the New York Times. Clifford Levy, deputy managing editor at the Times, tweeted that Renaud last worked for the newspaper in 2015. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-13/u-s-journalist-killed-in-ukraine-in-shooting-near-kyiv

 

 

Clifford Levy, a deputy managing editor of the New York Times, issued a statement on Twitter clarifying that Renaud was not on assignment for the paper, contrary to earlier reports.

“[The New York Times] is deeply saddened to learn of the death of an American journalist in Ukraine, Brent Renaud. Brent was a talented photographer and film-maker, but he was not on assignment for the New York Times in Ukraine. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/13/brent-renaud-us-film-maker-killed-by-russian-forces-ukraine

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[tgw]

9 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I just posted a link to the same video in my previous post to you and additionally a week ago on this thread. Again I ask you of your claim.

 

"his death seems to be by a friendly shot"

 

Where in that video backs up such a claim? You are spreading fake and false propaganda

you have to be fair, for him "friendly shot" probably means shot by a Russian.

[tgw]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

Obviously "Time Magazine" (?) has not had any batch spare, so he better put on a NYT batch where he hadn't had any business over 7 years with? 

 

Renaud had been a regular contributor to the New York Times. Clifford Levy, deputy managing editor at the Times, tweeted that Renaud last worked for the newspaper in 2015. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-13/u-s-journalist-killed-in-ukraine-in-shooting-near-kyiv

 

 

Clifford Levy, a deputy managing editor of the New York Times, issued a statement on Twitter clarifying that Renaud was not on assignment for the paper, contrary to earlier reports.

“[The New York Times] is deeply saddened to learn of the death of an American journalist in Ukraine, Brent Renaud. Brent was a talented photographer and film-maker, but he was not on assignment for the New York Times in Ukraine. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/13/brent-renaud-us-film-maker-killed-by-russian-forces-ukraine

 

aah, I understand, it's not as bad to shoot journalists who aren't working for the NYT.

 

I can see the Russian palkovnik shouting orders "only shoot at freelance journalists !!!"

[tgw]

Max Seddon is the Financial Times bureau chief in Moscow

 

This is from his Twitter:

Moscow’s Luzhniki stadium, which hosted the World Cup final in 2018, is packed out for a pro-war rally on the anniversary of Russia’s Crimea annexation. Lots of reports of state employees being bussed in. They’re watching a video with Ukrainian flags being thrown to the ground

 

 

[Kwasaki]

10 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Huh??

[tgw]

What do we do in this scenario :

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-17/putin-is-likely-to-make-nuclear-threats-if-war-drags-u-s-says

 

Putin Likely to Make Nuclear Threats If War Drags, U.S. Says

• Defense Intelligence Agency chief offers a grim assessment
• Russia may ‘rely on its nuclear deterrent’ to signal strength

 

[Kwasaki]

15 minutes ago, tgw said:

you have to be fair, for him "friendly shot" probably means shot by a Russian.

In a letter to the Reuters news agency, Israel's top military lawyer, Brigadier General Avihai Mendelblit, said the troops involved in the shooting in April could not tell whether cameraman Fadel Shana, 24, was holding a camera or a weapon but nonetheless reached a "reasonable conclusion" that he was "hostile".

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, Saanim said:

Obviously "Time Magazine" (?) has not had any batch spare, so he better put on a NYT batch where he hadn't had any business over 7 years with? 

 

Renaud had been a regular contributor to the New York Times. Clifford Levy, deputy managing editor at the Times, tweeted that Renaud last worked for the newspaper in 2015. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-13/u-s-journalist-killed-in-ukraine-in-shooting-near-kyiv

 

 

Clifford Levy, a deputy managing editor of the New York Times, issued a statement on Twitter clarifying that Renaud was not on assignment for the paper, contrary to earlier reports.

“[The New York Times] is deeply saddened to learn of the death of an American journalist in Ukraine, Brent Renaud. Brent was a talented photographer and film-maker, but he was not on assignment for the New York Times in Ukraine. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/13/brent-renaud-us-film-maker-killed-by-russian-forces-ukraine

 

I've already responded to this what point are you trying to make? "Time Magazine" confirmed he was working for them covering the refugee crisis, finished. The award winning film maker is dead. Another journalist murdered thanks to the Russian attack

[Saanim]

8 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Considering that have bombed hospitals, kindergartens, have hostages in basements as human shields, and theatres with the word children written in white outside it, nothing would surprise me

It couldn't be made more clear, could it?

 

I cannot get how the Russian generals wage the war: (that's why so many generals be killed)

 

they have hostages in basement of theater?  does it mean they bring thousands of the hostages into basement? - where from? 

 

Then, they (the Russians) leave and call an airplane to bomb the roof where is the word children written in white? Instead of killing them by an explosion inside... 

 

Unfortunately, no record of a plane around in that time... (but perhaps out of order...)  

 

But why they do not kill the 3+ millions along the humanitarian corridors? Seems that the generals are not so clever...  

 

[Hellfire]

42 minutes ago, tgw said:

Max Seddon is the Financial Times bureau chief in Moscow

 

This is from his Twitter:

Moscow’s Luzhniki stadium, which hosted the World Cup final in 2018, is packed out for a pro-war rally on the anniversary of Russia’s Crimea annexation. Lots of reports of state employees being bussed in. They’re watching a video with Ukrainian flags being thrown to the ground

 

 

 This nation is sick.  Russians, as a whole, even after 30 years of so called “freedom”, still have no any idea about the democratic values, freedom of speech, personal rights and so on. For them, those are the empty and hypocritical words used by the Western propaganda to impose its power on their country. There is an old Russian proverb describing someone confused about his own thoughts and actions - “без царя в голове”, literally meaning “someone who has no Tsar in his head”.  Russians still fully rely on their Tsar to solve all their problem and they are still living in the dark medieval world where everything is based on Power. This should be well understood by anybody in the West who tries to get an idea who exactly they are dealing with: the power worshiping slaves.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Hellfire