Mystery leaks hit Russian undersea gas pipelines to Europe

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

I said 'was seen' [read more carefully, past tense] of course

it has left the Channel. Using same source as you.

The source has it in the Baltic for a week, so wheres the link to your information, you know where you said it scurried away to the English Channel after being 50 next to nordstream 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

One good thing coming out of this terrorist act is that Russia is now forced to look to the east to sell their gas. Naturally, China will be their biggest customer and China will benefit from the cheap gas that Europe had been enjoying for decades. Australia will suffer (natural gas is a much cleaner fuel then coal). China will build pipelines as part of their BRI and supply gas to Central and SEA.

 

All this time, Europe will be forced to import much more expensive LNG from US and Qatar. This is the beginning of the end for Europe and when that happens, the US will diminish in power alongside Europe. 
 

The future belongs to the Global South and the East.

I've generally supported you till now, but the idea that China would rule Australasia is anathema to me. I hope it never ever happens.

If that means supporting the USA, I'm in boots and all.

[bannork]

13 hours ago, billd766 said:

OTOH they may have done it themselves to throw suspicion onto the West and the USA in particular.

Perhaps the Russians did it to show the West that their new Norway- Poland gas pipeline, nearby, is not immune to attack.

 

[bannork]

China will hold all the cards if Russia can only sell gas to the East. Bargain basement prices for sure.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/can-russia-execute-gas-pivot-asia

[billd766]

21 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Well, only 1 country has ever used nuclear weapons in the name of war and it’s not Russia.

And that saved how many millions of lives?

 

IF, and it is a big IF, Putin does push the button, depending on what sort of weapon is used, will depend on the response returned.

 

If a battlefield tactical weapon is used then the allies would probably use the same. IF Putin uses an ICBM, then the majority of, at least European Russia will cease to exist as we know it today.

 

It also depends on the lower ranking generals and the troops below them who know that they are already targeted so they possibly may ignore the order.

 

IMHO and it is only my personal opinion is that Putin has completely lost the plot and is certifiably insane and off his trolley.

[Gweiloman]

23 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Always try to get your facts correct

 

There’s still some Russian gas flowing to Europe through a pipeline passing through Ukraine into Slovakia, and another crossing the Black Sea to Turkey and then to EU member Bulgaria. 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/europe-is-facing-an-energy-crisis-as-russia-cuts-gas-heres-why

I posted this in a post before yours.

 

Europe is already not buying Russian gas (other than the piddly amount from the Ukraine pipeline).

 

Try to keep up (and not be so light on facts)

Edited September 30, 2022 by Gweiloman

[stevenl]

7 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

I posted this in a post before yours.

 

Europe is already not buying Russian gas (other than the piddly amount from the Ukraine pipeline).

 

Try to keep up (and not be so light on facts)

You also said Russia is not selling any gas to Europe. Only Norway is.  Try to be consistent.

[SunnyinBangrak]

Did anybody credibly explain this away? Does Biden know what he is talking about? If so this is very dangerous games he is playing.

 

"Speaking at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Biden said, "If Russia invades... again, then there will be longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

When asked how he would do that, he responded, "I promise you we will be able to do it."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/if-russia-invades-ukraine-there-will-be-no-nord-stream-2-biden-says-2022-02-07/

 

This threat, which was carried out exactly as threatened(by unknown entities thus far) led unsurprisingly to accusations that the USA blew up the pipeline. As one MEP twittered.

 

"Another cryptic post on Twitter came from Radosław Tomasz ‘Radek’ Sikorski, a Polish politician and journalist who is a Member of the European Parliament. His post contained an image that had been taken by the Danish Air Force previously, showing the Baltic Sea bubbling where gas is escaping from the damaged pipeline.

All Sikorski wrote as a caption was: “Thank you USA”. 

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/27/why-did-polish-mep-post-thank-you-usa-along-with-image-of-damaged-nord-stream-pipeline/

 

Beyond dangerous. Is Biden in control of himself? I hope somebody can get a handle on him before we are in all-out nuclear war.

Edited October 1, 2022 by metisdead
6. After pasting a reply format the text you have pasted. An easy way to do this is to click the "Paste as plain text instead" option at the bottom of the reply box.

[heybruce]

29 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Did anybody credibly explain this away? Does Biden know what he is talking about? If so this is very dangerous games he is playing.

 

"Speaking at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Biden said, "If Russia invades... again, then there will be longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

When asked how he would do that, he responded, "I promise you we will be able to do it."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/if-russia-invades-ukraine-there-will-be-no-nord-stream-2-biden-says-2022-02-07/

 

This threat, which was carried out exactly as threatened(by unknown entities thus far) led unsurprisingly to accusations that the USA blew up the pipeline. As one MEP twittered.

 

"Another cryptic post on Twitter came from Radosław Tomasz ‘Radek’ Sikorski, a Polish politician and journalist who is a Member of the European Parliament. His post contained an image that had been taken by the Danish Air Force previously, showing the Baltic Sea bubbling where gas is escaping from the damaged pipeline.

All Sikorski wrote as a caption was: “Thank you USA”. 

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/27/why-did-polish-mep-post-thank-you-usa-along-with-image-of-damaged-nord-stream-pipeline/

 

Beyond dangerous. Is Biden in control of himself? I hope somebody can get a handle on him before we are in all-out nuclear war.

He meant that Germany would shut the program down, which it did.

[billd766]

32 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Did anybody credibly explain this away? Does Biden know what he is talking about? If so this is very dangerous games he is playing.

 

"Speaking at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Biden said, "If Russia invades... again, then there will be longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

When asked how he would do that, he responded, "I promise you we will be able to do it."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/if-russia-invades-ukraine-there-will-be-no-nord-stream-2-biden-says-2022-02-07/

 

This threat, which was carried out exactly as threatened(by unknown entities thus far) led unsurprisingly to accusations that the USA blew up the pipeline. As one MEP twittered.

 

"Another cryptic post on Twitter came from Radosław Tomasz ‘Radek’ Sikorski, a Polish politician and journalist who is a Member of the European Parliament. His post contained an image that had been taken by the Danish Air Force previously, showing the Baltic Sea bubbling where gas is escaping from the damaged pipeline.

All Sikorski wrote as a caption was: “Thank you USA”. 

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/27/why-did-polish-mep-post-thank-you-usa-along-with-image-of-damaged-nord-stream-pipeline/

 

Beyond dangerous. Is Biden in control of himself? I hope somebody can get a handle on him before we are in all-out nuclear war.

Does it not occur to you that the leaders of EVERY country in the world do not really know, in depth, every subject that they have to deal with?

 

They ALL have advisers who they call on for each subject, and the advisers, who do know their subject intimately, will then give advice and opinions to the leaders and their cabinets. Then there will be a discussion at cabinet level (way above your grade and mine), and a decision will be made.

 

So it is NOT a case of the POTUS getting up one morning and saying, let us blow up the pipeline (the subject under discussion) or invade country X, Y or Z.

 

I know from your posts that you could never do President Biden's job, nor could I, or the millions of other ordinary people, yet you keep blaming President Biden for anything and everything.

 

You have no facts and no idea of what is going on, so you reply with links and quotes. So do I, but what we sometimes forget is that most of the reports and links are only the reporters opinions and may not resemble the truth.

Edited October 1, 2022 by billd766
added extra text

[Bkk Brian]

44 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Did anybody credibly explain this away? Does Biden know what he is talking about? If so this is very dangerous games he is playing.

 

"Speaking at a joint news conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Biden said, "If Russia invades... again, then there will be longer Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."

When asked how he would do that, he responded, "I promise you we will be able to do it."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/if-russia-invades-ukraine-there-will-be-no-nord-stream-2-biden-says-2022-02-07/

 

This threat, which was carried out exactly as threatened(by unknown entities thus far) led unsurprisingly to accusations that the USA blew up the pipeline. As one MEP twittered.

 

"Another cryptic post on Twitter came from Radosław Tomasz ‘Radek’ Sikorski, a Polish politician and journalist who is a Member of the European Parliament. His post contained an image that had been taken by the Danish Air Force previously, showing the Baltic Sea bubbling where gas is escaping from the damaged pipeline.

All Sikorski wrote as a caption was: “Thank you USA”. 

https://euroweeklynews.com/2022/09/27/why-did-polish-mep-post-thank-you-usa-along-with-image-of-damaged-nord-stream-pipeline/

 

Beyond dangerous. Is Biden in control of himself? I hope somebody can get a handle on him before we are in all-out nuclear war.

Yes Germany explains it very nicely, just 2 weeks after Biden's statement

 

Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

“This sounds technical, but it is the necessary administrative step so that no certification of the pipeline can now take place,” Scholz added. “And without this certification, Nord Stream 2 cannot go into operation.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-to-stop-nord-stream-2/

[300sd]

The climate fanatics are behind this. Who are they and who are they controlling?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

The climate fanatics are behind this. Who are they and who are they controlling?

The same people who send messages to a select few via their tooth fillings.

[300sd]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

The same people who send messages to a select few via their tooth fillings.

Wrong but nice try. Perhaps next time I'll spell it out for you.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, 300sd said:

Wrong but nice try. Perhaps next time I'll spell it out for you.

Why so coy? If you had anything valid to share, you would have spelled it out already. You've got nothing,

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts and replies dragging China into the topic have been removed, this topic is about:

 

Mystery leaks hit Russian undersea gas pipelines to Europe

[300sd]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Why so coy? If you had anything valid to share, you would have spelled it out already. You've got nothing,

Already did. Try not to be too blind. Bye,bye

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, 300sd said:

Already did. Try not to be too blind. Bye,bye

Really? Here's the last comment before your latest.

1 hour ago, 300sd said:

Wrong but nice try. Perhaps next time I'll spell it out for you.

This raises the question of whether or not  you read what you write.

[Gulfsailor]

An interesting view from someone very experienced with oil and gas pipe maintenance , indicating it could well have been accidents caused by typical Russian incompetence. The same way the Kursk sank, Chernobyl blew up, and MH17 was shot down. 
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

Edited October 1, 2022 by Gulfsailor

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

An interesting view from someone very experienced with oil and gas pipe maintenance , indicating it could well have been accidents caused by typical Russian incompetence. The same way the Kursk sank, Chernobyl blew up, and MH17 was shot down. 
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

Nord Stream leaks in Baltic Sea due to blasts equal to 'several hundred kilos' of TNT explosive: Danish-Swedish report to UN

 

Nord Stream 1, which opened in 2011, is co-owned by several European energy companies, but Russian gas giant Gazprom holds a 51% stake

Edited October 1, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[billd766]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Nord Stream leaks in Baltic Sea due to blasts equal to 'several hundred kilos' of TNT explosive: Danish-Swedish report to UN

 

Nord Stream 1, which opened in 2011, is co-owned by several European energy companies, but Russian gas giant Gazprom holds a 51% stake

I think that there will be records of all the shipping in the Baltic on a daily basis logged somewhere in the records of Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia. Lithuania, Poland, Germany and probably all the NATO countries including the USA, the UK and Russia.

 

It is known where the breaks are so it should be possible to track any vessel, surface or submerged, in almost any time period, which was travelling very slowly or anchored near those points.

 

I have no idea how sensitive the sonar detectors are or if they would be able to pick up small underwater vehicles with a small crew and carrying  couple of hundred kg of TNT equivalent explosives and the triggering system which could e be set of from land, sea, air or even a satellite, and does not even need to be in the country of origin.

[coolcarer]

2 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

An interesting view from someone very experienced with oil and gas pipe maintenance , indicating it could well have been accidents caused by typical Russian incompetence. The same way the Kursk sank, Chernobyl blew up, and MH17 was shot down. 
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

I see some real suckers commenting on that blog post you linked to, taking in all the utter B.S from the author who has no clue what he’s talking about ????

Edited October 1, 2022 by coolcarer

[rabas]

14 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

An interesting view from someone very experienced with oil and gas pipe maintenance , indicating it could well have been accidents caused by typical Russian incompetence. The same way the Kursk sank, Chernobyl blew up, and MH17 was shot down. 
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

"someone very experienced with oil and gas pipe maintenance"  suggesting an accidental explosion because hydrocarbons are so flammable, in his experience...

 

There is no oxygen 70 meters below sea level to make gas explode. 

[placeholder]

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Gulfsailor said:

An interesting view from someone very experienced with oil and gas pipe maintenance , indicating it could well have been accidents caused by typical Russian incompetence. The same way the Kursk sank, Chernobyl blew up, and MH17 was shot down. 
https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

Maybe not so interesting

 

Hundreds of pounds of TNT were used to damage the Nord Stream pipelines, Sweden and Denmark tell the UN

Leaks that have badly damaged the Nord Stream natural gas pipelines were caused by hundreds of pounds of TNT, Denmark and Sweden said in a joint report to the United Nations.

The countries cited the latest development in a joint report to the UN Security Council on Friday, adding the explosions were a deliberate act, Denmark's TV2 first reported.

The pipelines that carry gas from Russia to Europe began leaking on Monday, with the Swedish coast guard saying there were two leaks in the Swedish economic zone, and another two in the Danish zone. 

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/hundreds-of-pounds-of-tnt-were-used-to-damage-the-nord-stream-pipelines-sweden-and-denmark-tell-the-un/ar-AA12t9D5

[stevenl]

I am open to any explanation. So far I have seen claims of sabotage but have not heard of any proof of that nor are there obvious suspects.

I don't think we can discard other explanations like lack of maintenance just yet.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

I am open to any explanation. So far I have seen claims of sabotage but have not heard of any proof of that nor are there obvious suspects.

I don't think we can discard other explanations like lack of maintenance just yet.

Really? Simultaneously in 2 different pipelines that differ a lot by age?

And the Scandinavians are saying there was an explosion. As Rabas pointed out, methane won't explode underwater because there's no oxygen. I think the case for sabotage is proven. Who is responsible is a different matter.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? Simultaneously in 2 different pipelines that differ a lot by age?

And the Scandinavians are saying there was an explosion. As Rabas pointed out, methane won't explode underwater because there's no oxygen. I think the case for sabotage is proven. Who is responsible is a different matter.

Sorry, that is not proof. Indications, sure.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Sorry, that is not proof. Indications, sure.

Explosions aren't proof? What kind of accident could make methane explode with no oxygen present?

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I am open to any explanation. So far I have seen claims of sabotage but have not heard of any proof of that nor are there obvious suspects.

I don't think we can discard other explanations like lack of maintenance just yet.

4 different explosions? 

 

Hans Liwang, a researcher at the Swedish Defence University, told the local daily DN that traces of the explosive device can be found along the pipeline, but it is highly likely that the evidence will disappear when the gas moves up.

 

European security officials observed Russian navy support ships in the vicinity of the pipeline leaks on Monday and Tuesday

[stevenl]

Different explosions can be when one incident sets of the next one 

Yes, there are indications of sabotage, but I'll wait with my judgement. From your second link 'suggesting sabotage' 'believed by explosives', so far from proved.

Edited October 2, 2022 by stevenl