Immigration Promenada One Stop Service 2016-2017

[CMBob]

4 hours ago, grin said:

Went in to get my retirement extension and for the first time since I turned 50 the officer would not accept my US Consulate income affidavit without supporting documentation. Fortunately I live fairly close by so I drove home and printed the latest statements and circled the monthly income amounts. When I gave the 20 or so pages of printout to the officer he barely looked at it. He just kind of leafed through it and asked me to sign at the bottom of every page and stapled my income affidavit to the front of it. Seemed like a waste of a half hour, gas, ink and paper.

No doubt this happened to you but it's the first report I've seen that CM Immigration wants backup documentation to support the income affidavit issued by the US Consulate.  Maybe it was just a one-off thing by that particular Immigration officer or maybe it's the start of a new enforcement matter because they've finally learned that the US Consulate/Embassy (contrary to what most other countries' consulates/embassies require) doesn't require any income verification documentation to enable them to essentially notarize the affidavit.  I guess we'll see if this is a new thing for US citizens (or, perhaps, other non-US citizen expats) or if it was just that one officer giving you a hard time.

 

[grin]

I'm not sure the officer was just giving me a hard time. As I am still working I have more income than most retirees and certainly much more income than I will have once I stop working. The last three years this same officer has asked if the income on my affidavit was for a month or a year and if it was US dollars or Thai Baht. I have always assured him that there is no mistake and that it is monthly income in US dollars.

 

Hopefully that explains why I am thinking it might be simpler to not report all of my income. Years ago just to be sure I asked an officer at Chiang Mai immigration if I should be getting an extension based on retirement if I was still working and he said, yes, and that I only needed to be over 50 years old to get that type of extension. So I'm guessing that this was more of a one off as my income did not look normal to the officer.

 

But this could happen to anyone in a similar position and I'm planning on how I might deal with it in the future.

[Mapguy]

This is an interesting report.  Some reports on this site  can be incomplete or not well-expressed although that does not seem to be the case here. There might be other factors not evident in the report that apply, but let's take it as presented .  If it protends what might be coming in the way of enforcing income requirements, there are no doubt quite a number of American expats who have been gaming the system for donkey's years who might be concerned. 

 

As any US consular officer will tell you, the affadavit is legally ONLY that the person appearing before him (or her) is the person who is so swearing, NOT that what he or she is swearing is true:  "Yes, this person is who he or she says  and this is what said."  You can parse that however you wish --- and certainly many "legal experts" here on TV Chiang Mai will probably do so.  Anyway, that's straight from a consular horse's mouth.  

 

Looking at the situation pragmatically --- for those who have not been gaming the system (and it is an open secret that many lie through their teeth) --- providing acceptable proof is easy enough with evidence of an appropriate source of income provided, such as the original or subsequent annual statements of pension entitlements --- or bank statements  indicating sustained income coming into Thailand (even, perhaps, from investment income (Annual Las Vegas winnings don't count!) although that is not what Immigration normally accepts as compared, for example, to pensions, especially pensions guaranteed by a government.  Anyway, easy enough.  Otherwise, it doesn't cost a lot to photocopy what's needed.

 

In any case, the purpose of income requirements is clear, and, in the case of Thailand, very reasonable.   If foreigners want to stay here, they should be financially able to take care of themselves, especially in case they are sick or injured.  Actually, the current required amounts are laughably modest.  I believe without looking that the amount or the  annual income requirement was last increased some twenty or more years ago.

 

[Mapguy]

Oh!  By the way, Khun Grin,  per Post 2041, you don't have to report all your income; just meet the requirement.

 

And the officer you speak of, if the same very experienced officer who has sat at that desk for years, he has never given anyone a hard time as far as I have ever heard!

[CMBob]

1 hour ago, grin said:

....Years ago just to be sure I asked an officer at Chiang Mai immigration if I should be getting an extension based on retirement if I was still working and he said, yes, and that I only needed to be over 50 years old to get that type of extension. So I'm guessing that this was more of a one off as my income did not look normal to the officer.

I'm presuming that you're working outside of Thailand because you're not allowed to be working in Thailand with a retirement visa/extension.  Given the likelihood of perplexing an Immigration officer in the future (any combination of a retirement extension and the word "working" is likely going to put some officer on alert), I'd suggest you not offer any comment about working unless, of course, you're point blank asked about it (and then you should reply accurately). 

[NancyL]

Hubby has never reported all his income on the U.S. consulate affidavit, just the amount of his two monthly pensions -- Social Security and a pension from a private employers.  This is the part of his income stream that is easy to document. 

 

The rest is from investments, withdrawals from IRAs, etc transfers from U.S. savings, etc and is a very irregular "income stream" that would surely baffle an immigration official.  It sounds like the amount that Grin reported on his Income Letter simply baffled the Immigration officer because it was so out-of-line with what he sees routinely that he wanted to make sure Grin hadn't confused baht with dollars and annual with monthly.

 

 

[Dante99]

There has never been a need to report all your income and nothing written says there is.

 

Very unlikely that there will be a full on requirement for documentation of income because those who think about it know that it would just be a time consuming exercise which would not really give the information they really want.

 

They want to know if people have enough money to live on.  Reasonable thought.  Income is only one measure and not a good one.  What about savings? If I have USD 25 million in savings, I do not need any income to live on. Also what about deductions from income like loan payments, alimony payments, payments for kid's education and support... all of which reduce available funds for living?  

 

 

 

 

[grin]

I work for a large multinational company and my pay comes from the US arm of the company. I work mostly in Europe and North America but do some work in Asia. I purposely avoid doing work for our clients in Thailand like AIS and TOT.

[Bill97]

Wow very impressive do tell us more please.


Sent from my iPod touch using Thaivisa Connect

[grin]

Ha ha, if you only knew. There is nothing impressive about it. Many people have jobs like mine and I'm guessing that a number of them live in Thailand. Yes, the technology can be interesting at times but the constant business travel gets old fast. In my case I prefer to work for a small agile company where you know everyone and not being employed at a large sloth company, especially through an acquisition by a behemoth with fake culture and fake transparency.

Edited June 8, 2018 by grin

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, grin said:

Ha ha, if you only knew. There is nothing impressive about it. Many people have jobs like mine and I'm guessing that  a number of them live in Thailand. Yes, the technology can be interesting at times but the constant business travel gets old fast. In my case I prefer to work for a small agile company where you know everyone and not being employed at a large sloth company, especially through an acquisition by a behemoth with fake culture and fake transparency.

 

Agree about the constant business travel, for many years my base was Bangkok but covering Japan to India and down to Indonesia and occasionally Australia. Most weeks a day trip Bkk to S'pore and back and day trip Bkk to HK and back (home in Bkk often at midnight) or similar, sometimes 1 night stay away because can't be completed the trip same day, then back to airport for return on first flight, etc. Business class helped plus paid for assistance at airports but the travel is very draining, working during flights is not very productive and airline and hotel food less than appealing when regular. And in many cases does severe damage to marriages / families. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kohsamida]

Question re Non-O Visa application:  So, When IMM gave me my appointment date, they gave me a paper checklist of items that need to be presented when I show up for my appointment.  I assumed it was identical to the one they showed me, and went over with me in the office, but now when I read it, it contains two things that were not on the list that was discussed in the office, and I need some help understanding them.

 

1) Photocopy of "house book" and Owner ID.  In the office their list only mentioned Owner ID, not House Book.  The owner is traveling and said he cannot get me a copy of the "house book" until his return which will be after my appointment date.  Is this going to be a deal-breaker for me if I can't get it in time for my appointment? 

 

Is a copy of his House Book something I can get on my own, or perhaps something my real estate broker can get for me? 

 

2) Next, this is directly from the checklist including grammatical errors:

• "A letter from the owner to certified that have foreigner in this place and specified status" 

I have no idea what this means??  Is it just a letter from the owner that says that he certifies that I am a foreigner and that I am living in his place?  I mean, Isn't that obvious from the lease agreement document, especially since it contains a copy of my passport page?  What does "specified status" mean?

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Mapguy]

Reading your posts, I strongly suggest that you employ an agent regarding Immigration matters. It appears that you are unnecessarily anxious about details about which a qualified agent, such as Assist Thai Visa or other, should set your mind at rest and do the needful. TV Chiang Mai really has its limits.


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[Kohsamida]

12 hours ago, Mapguy said:

Reading your posts, I strongly suggest that you employ an agent regarding Immigration matters. It appears that you are unnecessarily anxious about details about which a qualified agent, such as Assist Thai Visa or other, should set your mind at rest and do the needful. TV Chiang Mai really has its limits.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Thanks for reply.  My appointment is on Monday so I don’t have time for an agent, nor do I want one.   

 

My questions are simple:  1) if a House Book copy is really necessary or not, 2) if anybody knows the format for this “strange” letter that has been requested.

 

Anybody who has been through the process lately would know.

[amexpat]

House book?  I wonder, what if you were living in a hotel? 

 

I hope someone can be more helpful. 

[Kohsamida]

21 minutes ago, amexpat said:

House book?  I wonder, what if you were living in a hotel? 

 

I hope someone can be more helpful. 

Exactly.  Both of my sticking points make no sense to me and probably will turn out to be unimportant.  Nonetheless, I can’t afford to have my application rejected because im missing something.  

 

I guess there’s really only a small handful of people on this forum that seem able and willing to offer sound and useful advice; so I’ll wait for one of them to chime in.  

 

Thanks for positive vibe; I appreciate it ?

 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Kohsamida

[sletraveler]

On 5/23/2018 at 7:58 AM, CMsojourner said:

Those hours could work for applying for a Certificate of Residence (or maybe making a 90-day report, TM.30 update/report, or securing a reentry permit), but not for applying for most non-tourist visa extensions.

I had arrived one hour early and on the second visit 2 hours early.  Had a line sitter last night so I got an afternoon spot #29 for today.  He got there at midnight.  Each day the line is longer so looks like each day the disappointed return for another try and the line only gets longer.  What a clusterF#. 

Edited June 9, 2018 by sletraveler
As for the issue of the house book, immigration is looking for proof of your Thailand address.

[cusanus]

On 6/9/2018 at 10:10 AM, Kohsamida said:

Exactly.  Both of my sticking points make no sense to me and probably will turn out to be unimportant.  Nonetheless, I can’t afford to have my application rejected because im missing something.  

By now the thread has gotten stale, though memory seems that you're questions were answered. You sure don't need a house book for a visa extension, just a TM30 stamp, which you said you had. Have signed copies of your passport, a couple of photos ready, whatever else has been mentioned, then relax.

[NancyL]

17 minutes ago, cusanus said:

By now the thread has gotten stale, though memory seems that you're questions were answered. You sure don't need a house book for a visa extension, just a TM30 stamp, which you said you had. Have signed copies of your passport, a couple of photos ready, whatever else has been mentioned, then relax.

He's not getting a visa extension, but rather applying for a conversion of a tourist visa to a non-imm O visa, the first step on the path to getting a one-year extension.  It's a very different kettle of fish and yes, there are likely to be more hoops to jump.

[Kohsamida]

41 minutes ago, cusanus said:

By now the thread has gotten stale, though memory seems that you're questions were answered. You sure don't need a house book for a visa extension, just a TM30 stamp, which you said you had. Have signed copies of your passport, a couple of photos ready, whatever else has been mentioned, then relax.

Ya know, if you guys who are replying in such a negative way don't want to provide any useful information, that's fine but please don't insinuate I should not be concerned by this information sheet that IMM gave me when I made my appointment.  It is DIFFERENT than what they told me and showed me while in their office.  So, naturally I am a little concerned!

 

And FYI, I am NOT filing for an extension, I am filing for a Non-O, so perhaps you should get your facts straight before criticizing me, and offering INCORRECT information that just confuses the situation more.

 

And "if your memory serves", you might realize that when I finally get a clear and concise answer to a question, I stop asking it.  Perhaps if people didn't post "answers" they weren't sure of, there wouldn't be so much confusion.

 

I hope you realize that answers to my questions don't just serve me but they serve others who must deal with IMM on this issue in the future, so perhaps a less critical attitude might be in order.

 

This process is supposed to be one which does NOT require an intermediary agent to perform.  I know people who have dealt with IMM in Bangkok and in Jomtien, and not required the help of an agent at all.  It should be that way at Promenada as well, and I'm not about to pay some agent 18,000 baht for something that should be able to be done without one!

 

Sorry for the rant and no personal offense intended; I'm just looking for facts to a confusing situation since I don't have the luxury of screwing up on this application.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Dante99]

Wake up, there are no clear concise answers.  What is done depends on what the immigration officer chooses to do at the time.  It does not have to be the same as he did 30 minutes ago or will do in an hour. That is the way it works and has worked for decades.

 

Now that is not negative, that is fact.  Only fools are obsessed with finding clear concise answers about CM immigration.

 

That is not negative about CM immigration either, immigration officers of many counties have wide discrimination about what they ask and ask for. SOP

[Kohsamida]

3 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Wake up, there are no clear concise answers.  What is done depends on what the immigration officer chooses to do at the time.  It does not have to be the same as he did 30 minutes ago or will do in an hour. That is the way it works and has worked for decades.

 

Now that is not negative, that is fact.  Only fools are obsessed with finding clear concise answers about CM immigration.

 

That is not negative about CM immigration either, immigration officers of many counties have wide discrimination about what they ask and ask for. SOP

Look, I understand what you're saying.  I understand that a lot depends on how a specific officer will interpret the rules.  My post simply asked for people with past experience to say 1) whether or not the House book was really important, and 2) what that sentence about the "letter" meant. 

 

Do you really have a problem with those two questions?  I mean, seriously, are those two questions so horrible to post?

 

 

[rumak]

24 minutes ago, Kohsamida said:

Look, I understand what you're saying.  I understand that a lot depends on how a specific officer will interpret the rules.  My post simply asked for people with past experience to say 1) whether or not the House book was really important, and 2) what that sentence about the "letter" meant. 

 

Do you really have a problem with those two questions?  I mean, seriously, are those two questions so horrible to post?

 

 

i think what some members on this forum object to is your attitude.  Just my opinion so no need to give me a sermon about it.   If you want to know if i could be right maybe you could start a new topic titled...

"seriously, am i really a pain or is it just the mean spirited people on this forum".    

Edited June 10, 2018 by rumak

[Kohsamida]

17 minutes ago, rumak said:

i think what some members on this forum object to is your attitude.  Just my opinion so no need to give me a sermon about it.   If you want to know if i could be right maybe you could start a new topic titled...

"seriously, am i really a pain or is it just the mean spirited people on this forum".

To be frank, I don l don't really care what you think of my "attitude.  Every single post I make is an attempt to seek information or to provide it.  I try not to get lured into the type of reply I am writing to you now because they are a waste of everybody's time.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but practically every interaction I have had with you is a response to a PERSONAL and negative remark you direct at me that has nothing whatsoever to do with the particular thread.

 

You're entitled if that's your thing, but I find it a waste of my time and anyone's else's trying to weed through a huge thread such as this.

 

With the exception of a handful of nice and caring people who are on this forum for this purpose it was intended, that being, to share information that will help others, most of the replies I have gotten are indeed mean-spirited and do nothing whatsoever to advance a given thread.

 

This particular thread is currently 138 pages.  If you removed all the troll posts, flames, and off-topic comments, it would probably amount to 20-30 pages of useful information.

 

So, I guess you get your wish because I no longer want to be a part of all of this.  This is my last post on TVF.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Kohsamida

[Dante99]

Hurrah

[rumak]

promise ?

[NancyL]

Oh dear.  I really want to learn how Kohsamida's appointment tomorrow and attempt to convert his tourist visa to a non-imm O visa turns out tomorrow.  To refuse to return to tells us really is mean spirited, esp. after some TV members have made an attempt to provide useful information.

 

Edit:  Incidentally, Kohsamida, the way I read point No. 3 in the document you received from Imm. is that if someone is staying in a place owned by a foreigner and not paying rent, then the owner must supply a letter to Immigration explaining the status of the "foreigner", i.e. the applicant.  For example, if I bring my elderly father over to Thailand to live with me in a condo I own, then I have to supply a letter to Imm. explaining that he is my father, living in a condo I own and I'm not charging him rent because, well, he's my father, but he still needs his own non-Imm O visa and eventually a retirement extension.  He can't be carried as a dependent on my own retirement visa and extension, the way that Hubby could.

[Bill97]

 
Do you really have a problem with those two questions?  I mean, seriously, are those two questions so horrible to post?
 
 

The questions are not bad but repeating them with all that other stuff is offensive. Bye bye.

[NancyL]

And as for Question No. 2 in the document posted, you should have a copy of the ID of the owner of the place you rent and the house book as part of the lease you signed.  If not, then how do you know the person really owns the place?  That is if you rent an individually owned condo.

 

If you're living in a guesthouse, serviced apartment or hotel, then that's a different story and you won't need an ID of the owner and copy of the house book, but there should be a business registration document about the place where you live, like a Tax ID document to show that it's a legitimate business.  (or maybe it's one of those illegally operating hotels, in which case you may have a problem) 

[rumak]

11 minutes ago, NancyL said:

Oh dear.  I really want to learn how Kohsamida's appointment tomorrow and attempt to convert his tourist visa to a non-imm O visa turns out tomorrow.  To refuse to return to tells us really is mean spirited, esp. after some TV members have made an attempt to provide useful information.

i don't know who you are referring to ( mean spirited ).   Just as you go to great lengths to explain your point of view in your posts and responses.....well, others are entitled to do the same. No ?

I simply offered an opinion that his attitude may be what some members do not like.  And as one of his

defenders you are entitled to one vote,  same as everybody else.

Edited June 10, 2018 by rumak