Ivermectin: Yes, No or Maybe

[JetsetBkk]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Many wh'do try this drug are about as smart as a horse.

Lots of horses in India.  Google it.

[Danderman123]

15 hours ago, Airalee said:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/
 

Conclusions: Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.
 

 

 

[Danderman123]

8 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

Lots of horses in India.  Google it.

DGHS drops Ivermectin, Doxycycline from Covid-19 treatment

 

lots of unreported deaths from Covid in India, it’s not really a great example for use of Forsythia, oops, Ivermectin, as a cure.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Danderman123

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

 

Misleading evidence ends up on shady websites.  Not pubmed.  Nice try though.

[xylophone]

48 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Misleading evidence ends up on shady websites.  Not pubmed.  Nice try though.

Wrong..............the largest meta-analysis study paper was published on that website and was later found to be inaccurate and despite being copied/shared on several other publications, it was withdrawn. 

 

This has been posted on here and elsewhere, so take a look.

 

Also the fact that research papers are published on Pubmed doesn't mean that they are the definitive article as Pubmed itself states. "Larger trials will be needed to confirm these preliminary findings". Note: preliminary findings.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

[Danderman123]

It will take a little more time for clinical trials to determine the efficacy of Forsythia, oops, Ivermectin.

 

In the meantime, follow the advice of your doctor on Covid medications, not some enthusiastic moron on the internet.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Danderman123

[Bkk Brian]

On 9/7/2021 at 5:31 PM, Airalee said:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34145166/
 

Conclusions: Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.
 

 

Meanwhile the NIH panel have issued a statement on this:

 

"Ivermectin has been shown to inhibit the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in cell cultures.13 However, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans."

 

However, most of these studies had incomplete information and significant methodological limitations, which make it difficult to exclude common causes of bias. These limitations include:

The sample size of most of the trials was small.

Various doses and schedules of ivermectin were used.

Some of the randomized controlled trials were open-label studies in which neither the participants nor the investigators were blinded to the treatment arms.

Patients received various concomitant medications (e.g., doxycycline, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, zinc, corticosteroids) in addition to ivermectin or the comparator drug. This confounded the assessment of the efficacy or safety of ivermectin.

The severity of COVID-19 in the study participants was not always well described.

The study outcome measures were not always clearly defined.

 

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

 

In addition just released from FDA

 

"There seems to be a growing interest in a drug called ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans. Certain animal formulations of ivermectin such as pour-on, injectable, paste, and "drench," are approved in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals. For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.

However, the FDA has received multiple reports of patients who have required medical attention, including hospitalization, after self-medicating with ivermectin intended for livestock."

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

 

Wait, there's more just published, from AP news:

 

Efforts grow to stamp out use of parasite drug for COVID-19

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Health experts and medical groups are pushing to stamp out the growing use of a decades-old parasite drug to treat COVID-19, warning that it can cause harmful side effects and that there’s little evidence it helps.

With a fourth wave of infections, more Americans are turning to ivermectin, a cheap drug used to kill worms and other parasites in humans and animals.

 

https://apnews.com/article/business-science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-c2b50063ac65943686a4995a6cf230c3

 

and here's a few fact checks:

 

Fact Check-Animal Ivermectin should not be used on humans

 

An FDA frequently asked questions document (here) says that possible side-effects associated with ivermectin use include skin rash, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, facial or limb swelling, neurologic adverse events (dizziness, seizures, confusion), sudden drop in blood pressure, severe skin rash potentially requiring hospitalization, and liver injury.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19-ivermectin/fact-check-animal-ivermectin-should-not-be-used-on-humans-idUSL1N2PJ1T9

 

 

 

 

 

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Meanwhile the NIH panel have issued a statement on this:

 

"Ivermectin has been shown to inhibit the replication of SARS-CoV-2 in cell cultures.13 However, pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic studies suggest that achieving the plasma concentrations necessary for the antiviral efficacy detected in vitro would require administration of doses up to 100-fold higher than those approved for use in humans."

 

However, most of these studies had incomplete information and significant methodological limitations, which make it difficult to exclude common causes of bias. These limitations include:

The sample size of most of the trials was small.

Various doses and schedules of ivermectin were used.

Some of the randomized controlled trials were open-label studies in which neither the participants nor the investigators were blinded to the treatment arms.

Patients received various concomitant medications (e.g., doxycycline, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, zinc, corticosteroids) in addition to ivermectin or the comparator drug. This confounded the assessment of the efficacy or safety of ivermectin.

The severity of COVID-19 in the study participants was not always well described.

The study outcome measures were not always clearly defined.

 

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

 

In addition just released from FDA

 

"There seems to be a growing interest in a drug called ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 in humans. Certain animal formulations of ivermectin such as pour-on, injectable, paste, and "drench," are approved in the U.S. to treat or prevent parasites in animals. For humans, ivermectin tablets are approved at very specific doses to treat some parasitic worms, and there are topical (on the skin) formulations for head lice and skin conditions like rosacea.

However, the FDA has received multiple reports of patients who have required medical attention, including hospitalization, after self-medicating with ivermectin intended for livestock."

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

 

Wait, there's more just published, from AP news:

 

Efforts grow to stamp out use of parasite drug for COVID-19

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Health experts and medical groups are pushing to stamp out the growing use of a decades-old parasite drug to treat COVID-19, warning that it can cause harmful side effects and that there’s little evidence it helps.

With a fourth wave of infections, more Americans are turning to ivermectin, a cheap drug used to kill worms and other parasites in humans and animals.

 

https://apnews.com/article/business-science-health-coronavirus-pandemic-c2b50063ac65943686a4995a6cf230c3

 

and here's a few fact checks:

 

Fact Check-Animal Ivermectin should not be used on humans

 

An FDA frequently asked questions document (here) says that possible side-effects associated with ivermectin use include skin rash, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, facial or limb swelling, neurologic adverse events (dizziness, seizures, confusion), sudden drop in blood pressure, severe skin rash potentially requiring hospitalization, and liver injury.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19-ivermectin/fact-check-animal-ivermectin-should-not-be-used-on-humans-idUSL1N2PJ1T9

 

 

 

 

 

That’s fabulous, but why the need to go on and on about “animal ivermectin”? 

 

When I want beef, I buy a nice tenderloin.  I don’t buy Alpo.

 

When my Ivermectin was prescribed, it was done by a doctor….not a veterinarian or farm supply store.  Stop with the conspiracy theatrics that it’s only an animal drug.

 

Ivermectin (for human use) has been safely prescribed billions of times and has won a Nobel Prize.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Airalee said:

That’s fabulous, but why the need to go on and on about “animal ivermectin”? 

 

When I want beef, I buy a nice tenderloin.  I don’t buy Alpo.

 

When my Ivermectin was prescribed, it was done by a doctor….not a veterinarian or farm supply store.  Stop with the conspiracy theatrics that it’s only an animal drug.

 

Ivermectin (for human use) has been safely prescribed billions of times and has won a Nobel Prize.

Yes but not for covid, the whole point of the above studies and articles

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes but not for covid, the whole point of the above studies and articles

It appears as if different studies come to different conclusions.  Perhaps in the future we will know more.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yes but not for covid, the whole point of the above studies and articles

You seemed to omit some relevant information from the NIH article.  Basically, they seem to say that more trials are needed and that there are currently some ongoing and that they can neither recommend for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of Covid 19.  Of course, I’m not talking about “horse dewormer” as people seem to parrot again and again and again.

 

• There is insufficient evidence for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

[Bkk Brian]

43 minutes ago, Airalee said:

You seemed to omit some relevant information from the NIH article.  Basically, they seem to say that more trials are needed and that there are currently some ongoing and that they can neither recommend for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of Covid 19.  Of course, I’m not talking about “horse dewormer” as people seem to parrot again and again and again.

 

• There is insufficient evidence for the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) to recommend either for or against the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19. Results from adequately powered, well-designed, and well-conducted clinical trials are needed to provide more specific, evidence-based guidance on the role of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/therapies/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/

No I didn't omit anything, I gave you the link to read it all yourself, and I see you have, good boy...............

[Bkk Brian]

53 minutes ago, Airalee said:

It appears as if different studies come to different conclusions.  Perhaps in the future we will know more.

Correct and as stated by the NIH panel:

 

However, most of these studies had incomplete information and significant methodological limitations, which make it difficult to exclude common causes of bias. These limitations include:

The sample size of most of the trials was small.

Various doses and schedules of ivermectin were used.

Some of the randomized controlled trials were open-label studies in which neither the participants nor the investigators were blinded to the treatment arms.

Patients received various concomitant medications (e.g., doxycycline, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, zinc, corticosteroids) in addition to ivermectin or the comparator drug. This confounded the assessment of the efficacy or safety of ivermectin.

The severity of COVID-19 in the study participants was not always well described.

The study outcome measures were not always clearly defined.

 

 

[Jeffr2]

9 hours ago, Airalee said:

That’s fabulous, but why the need to go on and on about “animal ivermectin”? 

 

When I want beef, I buy a nice tenderloin.  I don’t buy Alpo.

 

When my Ivermectin was prescribed, it was done by a doctor….not a veterinarian or farm supply store.  Stop with the conspiracy theatrics that it’s only an animal drug.

 

Ivermectin (for human use) has been safely prescribed billions of times and has won a Nobel Prize.

But not for covid. For parasites, yes. Covid? NO!

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

But not for covid. For parasites, yes. Covid? NO!

There are almost 50 currently planned studies around the world regarding the use of Ivermectin for Covid.

 

Why don’t you let the scientists do their work and stop being a denier?  
 

Hope is a good thing.  Fear is not.

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

The scientists HAVE completed sufficient “work” :-

We have safe effective customized covid vaccines.

Ivermectin has proven literally useless against covid.

Easy to Deny Theory disproved by Scientific Facts.

Ivermection has been abandoned as covid treatment by previous proponent institutions / countries like India. 

Continuing Individual Medical Proponents are completely Discredited.

New Studies ? Scientifically Irrelevant. Already Proven that the Artic is Quite Cold & the Earth is Not Flat…….

[JetsetBkk]

30 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Ivermectin has proven literally useless against covid.

Google "Ivermectin blackout in India". Interesting articles.

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

There are almost 50 currently planned studies around the world regarding the use of Ivermectin for Covid.

 

Why don’t you let the scientists do their work and stop being a denier?  
 

Hope is a good thing.  Fear is not.

 

https://clinicaltrials.gov

Please. Stop. You're making yourself look silly.

[candide]

Great drug against scabies! ????

[FritsSikkink]

On 6/8/2021 at 9:19 AM, Harry Om said:

Not true. You need to take another look at the literature, there's many recent studies.

 

The criticism of the studies is that they are small. The reason they're small is because drug companies won't fund a large study.

 

For example;

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

 

 

It doesn't work, end of.

[sezze]

I find it strange when people are rejecting vaccine but aiming at a animal medicine instead . Yes it is used in special cases on humans but it is not at all tested for covid on humans . Can that change , yes sure , but so far it hasn't . ...butbutbut it has shown to stop covid in cell cultures in labs .... sure , so does bleach , alcohol and various other substances .

[Danderman123]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:25 AM, Airalee said:

That’s fabulous, but why the need to go on and on about “animal ivermectin”? 

 

When I want beef, I buy a nice tenderloin.  I don’t buy Alpo.

 

When my Ivermectin was prescribed, it was done by a doctor….not a veterinarian or farm supply store.  Stop with the conspiracy theatrics that it’s only an animal drug.

 

Ivermectin (for human use) has been safely prescribed billions of times and has won a Nobel Prize.

The real issue is that there is no good clinical evidence of efficacy for Covid19. But the internet misinformation system convinces people they don’t need to vaccinate because if infected, they can use Forsythia, oops, Ivermectin.

[Danderman123]

On 9/9/2021 at 2:06 PM, Bkk Brian said:

Correct and as stated by the NIH panel:

 

However, most of these studies had incomplete information and significant methodological limitations, which make it difficult to exclude common causes of bias. These limitations include:

The sample size of most of the trials was small.

Various doses and schedules of ivermectin were used.

Some of the randomized controlled trials were open-label studies in which neither the participants nor the investigators were blinded to the treatment arms.

Patients received various concomitant medications (e.g., doxycycline, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, zinc, corticosteroids) in addition to ivermectin or the comparator drug. This confounded the assessment of the efficacy or safety of ivermectin.

The severity of COVID-19 in the study participants was not always well described.

The study outcome measures were not always clearly defined.

 

 

Basically, the crappier the clinical trial, the better the outcome for Ivermectin.

 

Rigorous trials are not so friendly to Ivermectin, Forsythia, Hydrochloroquine, or other fringe treatments.

[sezze]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

Basically, the crappier the clinical trial, the better the outcome for Ivermectin.

 

Rigorous trials are not so friendly to Ivermectin, Forsythia, Hydrochloroquine, or other fringe treatments.

In fact for most viral diseases there is very little to no medication around which does work . Some people think of all diseases the same , take medication , finished . For bacteria , fungus , worms and other living things , many times this is correct . A virus however is different since it isn't a living thing , it lives in our cells . In order to get rid of it is very difficult , some medication has been found to slow down virus , but so far only vaccination has been proven successful . That is because it learns the body to recognize the infected cells and kill them .

[Danderman123]

21 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

Google "Ivermectin blackout in India". Interesting articles.

Really stupid article that claims that adding Ivermectin to medication of infected persons led to a sharp drop in cases. Common sense tells you that once the infected begin treatment, they tend not to infect anyone else, so from an epidemiological perspective, they are irrelevant to containing the number of cases. Therefore, even if Ivermectin were effective in treating Covid, it had almost zero impact on the number of new cases.

[Danderman123]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:25 AM, Airalee said:

That’s fabulous, but why the need to go on and on about “animal ivermectin”? 

 

When I want beef, I buy a nice tenderloin.  I don’t buy Alpo.

 

When my Ivermectin was prescribed, it was done by a doctor….not a veterinarian or farm supply store.  Stop with the conspiracy theatrics that it’s only an animal drug.

 

Ivermectin (for human use) has been safely prescribed billions of times and has won a Nobel Prize.

If your doctor prescribed Ivermectin for Covid, you need a new doctor.

[JetsetBkk]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Really stupid article that claims that adding Ivermectin to medication of infected persons led to a sharp drop in cases. Common sense tells you that once the infected begin treatment, they tend not to infect anyone else, so from an epidemiological perspective, they are irrelevant to containing the number of cases. Therefore, even if Ivermectin were effective in treating Covid, it had almost zero impact on the number of new cases.

I don't know which of the articles you read, but India seems happy with the results. 

 

"once the infected begin treatment, they tend not to infect anyone else" Huh? Why should taking Ivermectin stop you infecting other people?  ????

[mommysboy]

Maybe, but unproven.

[sezze]

[Danderman123]

5 hours ago, JetsetBkk said:

I don't know which of the articles you read, but India seems happy with the results. 

 

"once the infected begin treatment, they tend not to infect anyone else" Huh? Why should taking Ivermectin stop you infecting other people?  ????

The article claimed that treatment of the infected with Ivermectin stopped infections from spreading.

 

Treatment of the infected has nothing to do with new cases.

 

Let’s say you get a positive PCR test and get hospitalized. Whether or not you are given Ivermectin, you are not going to infect anyone else. Whether IVM reduces your hospital stay by a few days is irrelevant to the national infection rate.