The world still needs to address how the electric is made in the first place.

at present, all just looks like a bit of a con to me.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Orinoco said:

The world still needs to address how the electric is made in the first place.

at present, all just looks like a bit of a con to me.

 

 

Just saw on TV, China,  the worlds biggest burner of coal, will not commit to eliminating it's use. In fact the statement was it will peak... in 2030. That means 9 more years of increasing coal consumption there. What is the point trying to force other countries to reduce their consumption.... it's like a starving man giving his food to the fat guy!

The MG EP is sold as the MG5 EV in the UK and it's the only car available in Thailand that I know of to be 25% cheaper in Thailand than the UK and probably the bargain of the century here through a mistake in the Free Trade Agreement negotiated with China, it's imported Tax/Duty Free.  That won't last, Japanese cars have a 20% Tax Rate, I'm not sure about European cars.  The ORA Good Cat is nowhere near the bargain the MG EP is.  MG also have a superb charging infrastructure with fast 135Kw chargers every 150km.

 

I have a Porsche Taycan and I have only single phase at home, I can charge at 220v 10amp, 16amp, 24amp or 32amp.  For most of my driving, I charge at the lowest 10amp setting, I plug it in when I get home and it's set to charge when it needs to, but complete at 7:45am (i.e. when it's coolest).  It rarely takes more than a couple of hours.

 

Since I bought it in June, the charging network has improved enormously and it's now feasible to drive from Chiang Rai to Bangkok with 2 or 3 half hour stops for charging.  You also need to bear in mind that you will leave home with 100% charge, but at charging stations you will only charge to 80% charge unless you want a very long wait.

 

Once you've owned an EV, it's hard to go back to ICE, especially when the EV is so responsive, fast and quiet with servicing every 2 years.

12 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Just saw on TV, China,  the worlds biggest burner of coal, will not commit to eliminating it's use. In fact the statement was it will peak... in 2030. That means 9 more years of increasing coal consumption there. What is the point trying to force other countries to reduce their consumption.... it's like a starving man giving his food to the fat guy!

We have been burning coal for a couple of years and have fueled our development, China has been doing it for a couple of decades . But we want her to stop doing it. 

Abd they say,

"Yea you guys burned your coal . developed your country's , and now  want us to stop , how about you stop and we do it a few more years until we catch up to you"

EVs are coming and the problems will eventually be sorted out, but nowhere near as fast as some think. In the meantime, biofuels that work in combustion engines are probably the answer during the lengthy switch-over.

However, many places are also going for hydrogen (like Japan) and building infrastructure around that, which seems like a good idea to me. Unless they sort out fusion, then the electricity still needs to come from somewhere and the ramp-up of supply (and infrastructure) will need to be huge... along with the negatives of that, which we already encounter. Although, it looks like big business and others have decided on EVs as a way of saving the transport industry, so investments have been made and it's done and dusted.

In the future , EV's will be for city transport , fuel cell for long trips .

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Then houses need higher rated power supplies. And if that happens with too many houses in the same area then the district needs stronger cables, and and and.

The scale is the big problem.

Solar panels are already used to charge cars now ..
Not impossible to have them totally charged on solar but you need to have a villa n time for charging ..

Time is no problem for retirees n those with a 2nd car or bike for running errands 

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Just saw on TV, China,  the worlds biggest burner of coal, will not commit to eliminating it's use. In fact the statement was it will peak... in 2030. That means 9 more years of increasing coal consumption there. What is the point trying to force other countries to reduce their consumption.... it's like a starving man giving his food to the fat guy!

• Cumulative CO2 emissions globally by country 1750-2019 | Statista

The US has emitted 410 bil tons of Co2, China is at 219 bil tons  n have a long way to go to match up to the US
It probably will not end up emitting more than the US as it had already developed the world's first fusion plant (fusion is the opposite of nuclear n is supposed to be the holy grail of energy production) .. n has been the world's biggest global investor in renewable energy every year since 2015 

China has become a green energy superpower. These 5 charts show how | World Economic Forum (weforum.org)

The other thing most politicians conveniently ignore is that they had used China as the factory of the world so that they can go clean n pass on all the carbon consumption to it ...
Most of the coal being burnt in China atm is to provide power for factories to churn out goods demanded by the world ...

Too bad it is what it is   ...

EV cars are not the future. There are going to be severe problems getting good batteries, charging time will be a problem for long trips and disposal will be a big issue. I'll stick with the ICE and wait for the hydrogen vehicles.

1 hour ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

EV under 20000$, range fully charged 700km up,charging full in less than 5 minutes,enough charge stations,free disposal service for battery. Which brand and model can offer that?

Name 1 ICE that comes in at that price, has that range, and fills up from empty in 5 min ????

 

I've yet to see 1 car, Q'd up or even using a charging station, whether on the road, or at the mall, where it's offered for free.

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Just out of interest , what will happen to the million gas station workers sat on their stools, two to a pump waiting for your arrival to give you petrol if you can charge your car at home ? 

They will be employed replacing all the blown power lines to houses that will happen.

This is all very well, but around here, 200 plus houses have 20 pick ups/cars. 

 

most have motor bikes that would have been crushed years ago in other countries. Those who don't have them have to borrow from those who do have them. Bicycles, rarely seen. Except perhaps before 8am and after 5pm.

 

how about articles on electric bikes...insurance, tax, range, charging, etc?

BC i had been working in hk for a few years, company car is/was a model s tesla from 2015, this car is a dream to drive and even being an older model functions perfectly, i did'nt have to do many km so it got hooked up to the charger every 2 weeks or so,

HK became tesla city it seemed like all the previous sports car owners switched to tesla.

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sounds like a good idea. Except how many different battery models will all those cars have?

Looking now at mobile phones and how many different battery models they use gives us a good idea how that will work...

Yes but for example the different batteries are not necessary, like batteries in mobile phones it is easy to make all the same batteries.

Perhaps it is known to you that the battery charger for the phone already in Europe to be able to connect to each other.

Of- course companies like Apple  and other companies are against because they are afraid to a peny less that way.

I’m hoping the BKK car show will still go ahead in the first week of December to see what EVs are being shown Nissan have the Nissan Kick no need to plug it in as it has a small petrol motor that charges the electric batteries it’s just over a million baht for the top end model . I have been doing a lot of research the bad point is there are very few charging stations and living on an island such as mine it will be years before it happens so I would have to get an in-house charger installed which could end up rather expensive . I would love to go down that route but I think Thailand has a lot of catching up with the rest of Asia and let’s not forget the ridiculous taxes on imported cars !

8 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Just out of interest , what will happen to the million gas station workers sat on their stools, two to a pump waiting for your arrival to give you petrol if you can charge your car at home ? 

They go home to Myanmar, I presume... ????

1 hour ago, DGS1244 said:

They will be employed replacing all the blown power lines to houses that will happen.

That’s why I installed my own transformer when I built my property 

4 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sounds like a good idea. Except how many different battery models will all those cars have?

Looking now at mobile phones and how many different battery models they use gives us a good idea how that will work...

Since 3 companies provide 70% of the EV batteries, matching / swapping bad cells or the whole packs shouldn't be an issue.  Actually more universal and less proprietary than all the parts needed for an ICE engine of different manufacturers.

 

Probably best to hold off about 5 years.  Maybe by then they will have the solid state batteries that will significantly improve EV's.  Plus maybe easily accessible charging will be available by then.

 

I was looking at Mitsu's Hybrid.  On full electric it has a range of 55KM.

The transition away from fossil fuels to this next evolution of vehicle power is in its infancy (as far as roll-out is concerned, not in its overall invention).

The changes and adaptions to these changes are a series of steps (albeit in some ways clumsy, dead end requiring retracing of some steps and off along yet another path/s).

The movement and adaption to new forms of propulsion are made difficult because some of those invested in facets of energy production or profiting from them are recalcitrant and refuse to accept and embrace change because they are on a good-thing and like flies do their darnedest to stick to them.

New energy Infrastructure (charging stations etc) is also a slow affair, and some who are inclined to certain thinking say this is aided by governments being beholding to fossil fuel lobbyists and their pressures on governments to not get up and get these infrastructures rolled out. As for the cost of EV's this is as others have said; driven by a capacity to charge and get away with it. This includes governments and their tariffs and taxes being passed onto consumers.

A good earner indeed, and if one were to look at roads and other infrastructure that surrounds same it is said that the taxes levied on all areas associated with motor vehicles isn't proportionate to those being plowed back into transport infrastructure and therefore another example of slight of hand officialdom fleecing us as part of the proletariat. 

My old country is nowhere near as ridiculous as LOS for import tariffs on cars but its still pretty steep in its incline of taxes on EV's and all imported cars (we don't make cars here at all now, assemble yes, make no) from other nations i.e. (luxury imported car tax) which makes new tech and new imported makes much more expensive.

Time to heavily charge the "coin miners".

The amount of energy they use, horrifying. 

Nobody talks about that.

Such an illusion.  EV cars...  No power, power grid goes out, you have a car you can sit in and go nowhere.  How about creating a more effective exhaust system for vehicles, or focus on cleaner burning fuels.  What happens to all the spent batteries when they have worn out?  Utopian ideas that can be more negative for you more than be helpful.  You can bet elitists in all countries would exempt themselves from this.

10 hours ago, webfact said:

Now that auto companies are rolling out more and more electric vehicles (EVs) onto the Thai market, the real question is whether the time has come for Thai consumers to purchase an EV.

Well as someone who has purchased a hybrid my first experience was that I paid $10,000 USD more to get a Lexus 400H that got identical gas mileage to my Lexus 300, 330,and 350 which are the gas counterparts.  When I sold the hybrid I got the same resale value as a conventional gas. 

With electric cars being environmentally friendly I think those favoring them forget about a number of things. 
1. The mining of lithium is anything but clean and it is limited in supply

2. The electric still comes from somewhere and right now that is coal, natural gas, and nuclear.  A very small percentage of electric generation comes from wind/solar/hydro electric.
3. A gasoline vehicle that suffers an accident and spills gas is not a problem as it quickly evaporates.  An electric vehicle that spills the lithium from its battery calls for a hazmat crew and the battery contents flow into the soil.
4. The batteries like all batteries have a lifespan making the vehicles next to worthless as they approach the expiration date of the battery.
5. I can pump my tank with petrol in 5 minutes or less.  Unless and until battery charging becomes significantly faster I can't picture cars queued up waiting for a charge. 
6. If you run out of petrol on the street it is pretty simple to obtain a container of fuel from a station and put enough in to get you to a service station.  Would service trucks now need a generator to service stranded electric vehicle. 

7. Those spent batteries at the end of their lifespan will have to be removed and hopefully recycled.  I can't think of anything more environmentally contaminating than the manufacture and recycling of batteries. 

Perhaps EV are the future however it would not surprise me in 10 years we start to get studies on the harmful effects of all the electric current around us.  There are already questions about the continued use of a cell phone let alone a car filled with batteries that you sit in for hours at a time. 


https://www.epa.gov/energy/about-us-electricity-system-and-its-impact-environment

 

52 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

Time to heavily charge the "coin miners".

The amount of energy they use, horrifying. 

Nobody talks about that.

That's because it is total nonsense. 

5 hours ago, edwinchester said:

They're a rip off plus tax.

Just drove a Tesla Model 3. Only good thing is that it is so fast. It is a complicated computer on wheels, styling is average, parts are hugely expensive, if you want to wait months for them,  and wait till the government put on a distance tax in a few years ! 

9 hours ago, Willy Wombat said:

EV cars are a rip off in Australia.

I can’t imagine their cost in Thailand.

They are a rip off everywhere ,Where are they going to get the Clean Power from? Not from Power stations (only Nuclear power plants) 

You wait and see the cost of electricity go Sky high when there are a lot off EV's coming on the road.

2 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

Yes but for example the different batteries are not necessary, like batteries in mobile phones it is easy to make all the same batteries.

Perhaps it is known to you that the battery charger for the phone already in Europe to be able to connect to each other.

Of- course companies like Apple  and other companies are against because they are afraid to a peny less that way.

The problem with EV batteries is that they are BIG. And I am sure lots of different cars look different from below. It will be difficult to design a couple of batteries which can be used by many different car models.

And in the moment the car battery technology is still evolving a lot. Standard batteries will be old technology in a year or two and innovative companies sure will want to use the newest technologies.

Maybe in 20 years...

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Since 3 companies provide 70% of the EV batteries, matching / swapping bad cells or the whole packs shouldn't be an issue.  Actually more universal and less proprietary than all the parts needed for an ICE engine of different manufacturers.

And how many different model of batteries provide these 3 companies? I am sure many many different models - and for a reason.

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And how many different model of batteries provide these 3 companies? I am sure many many different models - and for a reason.

They not only provide, they actually make the batteries, if that answers you doubts.  BYD just came out with a new design / 'wave', safer, they are putting in their own vehicles, I think.

3 hours ago, PuaSai said:

Such an illusion.  EV cars...  No power, power grid goes out, you have a car you can sit in and go nowhere.  How about creating a more effective exhaust system for vehicles, or focus on cleaner burning fuels.  What happens to all the spent batteries when they have worn out?  Utopian ideas that can be more negative for you more than be helpful.  You can bet elitists in all countries would exempt themselves from this.

You know, when the power goes out, gasoline/petrol doesn't get pumped either, does it? (Unless you're living in the sticks where there's a pump inserted into a barrel containing fuel.) Has that inconvenient fact had much of an impact on transport?