Brexit brinkmanship: EU orders UK to scrap plan for treaty breach, UK refuses

[hotandsticky]

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

So no. As a UK EU enthusiast I - and many others like me - believe that the UK should leave the EU in accordance with the referendum result. All I ask in return is that my government respects its obligations and abides by the rule of rule. It appears that this is too much to ask of Johnson and his cronies.

 

I am a Brexiteer but I fully agree with your comment. However, it is not one-sided. The EU have significantly contributed to this debacle.

[RayC]

59 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

You raise a very good point. If the EU, as has been mooted I believe, were to start blockading, punitive tariffs or otherwise preventing trade with the UK, then we could hardly be expected to allow free and unfettered passage of goods through the Uk to the Republic of Ireland. I know that there are ferry routes from Ireland to Europe, but i am sure that the vast majority of traffic between continental Europe and the Republic of Ireland comes via the UK "land bridge".

I don't for one minute think that it will come to this, but if the EU and UK were to enact an embargo on each other's products there would be only one 'winner'.

 

No doubt the RoI would suffer greatly and the rest of the EU member states would take 'hits', but this would pale into insignificance against the hurt which would be suffered by the UK. For example, 30% of the food consumed in the UK originates in the EU, an amount which is far too large to replace overnight. This might mean a return to the good old days of food rationing!   (Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-global-and-uk-supply)

[izod10]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

You raise a very good point. If the EU, as has been mooted I believe, were to start blockading, punitive tariffs or otherwise preventing trade with the UK, then we could hardly be expected to allow free and unfettered passage of goods through the Uk to the Republic of Ireland. I know that there are ferry routes from Ireland to Europe, but i am sure that the vast majority of traffic between continental Europe and the Republic of Ireland comes via the UK "land bridge".

St Malo  France is the default capital of Eire,as from Jan 1

[izod10]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

I don't for one minute think that it will come to this, but if the EU and UK were to enact an embargo on each other's products there would be only one 'winner'.

 

No doubt the RoI would suffer greatly and the rest of the EU member states would take 'hits', but this would pale into insignificance against the hurt which would be suffered by the UK. For example, 30% of the food consumed in the UK originates in the EU, an amount which is far too large to replace overnight. This might mean a return to the good old days of food rationing!   (Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-global-and-uk-supply)

Nah! this is Irish talk,  food already being stockpiled,     1000 tonnes of Idaho spuds already earmarked

 

Eire will suffer mightily,the EU know it,cost them a fortune,but thanks to that the EU will cave in

[david555]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/11/brexit-news-deal-eu-boris-johnson-withdrawal-agreement-brussels/

Amy Jones, Political Correspondent

11 September 2020 • 3:44pm

 

Brexit latest news:

Boris Johnson to address Tory MPs in attempt to head off growing backbench rebellion 
The Prime Minister will urge backbenchers to support his controversial plans to override the Brexit divorce deal this evening, as MPs plan to rebel over controversial new legislation....
 

[Bluespunk]

11 minutes ago, david555 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/11/brexit-news-deal-eu-boris-johnson-withdrawal-agreement-brussels/

Amy Jones, Political Correspondent

11 September 2020 • 3:44pm

 

Brexit latest news:

Boris Johnson to address Tory MPs in attempt to head off growing backbench rebellion 
The Prime Minister will urge backbenchers to support his controversial plans to override the Brexit divorce deal this evening, as MPs plan to rebel over controversial new legislation....
 

Tick tick tick...

 

Brexit: Trade talks hang in balance as UK rejects EU ultimatum https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54112973

Edited September 11, 2020 by Bluespunk

[RayC]

26 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

I am a Brexiteer but I fully agree with your comment. However, it is not one-sided. The EU have significantly contributed to this debacle.

If you are referring to the trade talks, then I agree. Imo the EU does have to change its position on fishing rights (as does the UK on the level playing field). 

 

However, the issue here is the Withdrawal Agreement which has been agreed to, and signed by, both parties. This Agreement stands alone. There is no reason for Johnson to renege on it. 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

I don't for one minute think that it will come to this, but if the EU and UK were to enact an embargo on each other's products there would be only one 'winner'.

 

No doubt the RoI would suffer greatly and the rest of the EU member states would take 'hits', but this would pale into insignificance against the hurt which would be suffered by the UK. For example, 30% of the food consumed in the UK originates in the EU, an amount which is far too large to replace overnight. This might mean a return to the good old days of food rationing!   (Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook-2017/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-2017-global-and-uk-supply)

I wasn't suggesting that the UK initiate any action.  I was suggesting that if the EU initiate any action ( a suggestion reported in at least one broadsheet newspaper today) then the route to Ireland through the UK would almost certainly be affected.

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Tick tick tick...

 

Brexit: Trade talks hang in balance as UK rejects EU ultimatum https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54112973

And meanwhile the UK continues to get new trade deals in record quick times. Once we have Canada, Australia and NZ on board the EU might finally start taking us seriously.

 

Unsurprisingly today's agreement with Japan is not making the main headlines on any of the main TV / radio stations.

 

UK and Japan agree historic free trade agreement

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-japan-agree-historic-free-trade-agreement

 

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

11 hours ago, robblok said:

answered your question, you obviously have no idea 

Where is the answer for this for starters.

"Unlike Holland and Ireland, referendums in the UK are not ignored. But also many people like me believe we shouldn't have another one because they didn't like the result"

 

I see you are an expert now on Brexit and British issues.

[Laughing Gravy]

7 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Pity we did not listen to Charles de Gaulle, and did ever join these treacherous British... even a ratification of the British Parliament does not hold 9 months...

It is a pity that we didn't let the Germans wipe out Europe and install the Swastika as the national flag. Errm, we did, it is now a blue flag with yellow stars in it.

[Bluespunk]

26 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

And meanwhile the UK continues to get new trade deals in record quick times. Once we have Canada, Australia and NZ on board the EU might finally start taking us seriously.

 

Unsurprisingly today's agreement with Japan is not making the main headlines on any of the main TV / radio stations.

 

UK and Japan agree historic free trade agreement

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-japan-agree-historic-free-trade-agreement

 

 

 

Yep that 0.07% is awesome. 
 

LMAO

 

Oh and just to counter any falsehood conspiracy theory bs that the major news sources are ignoring the carbon copy of the EUs trade deal with Japan, here’s a couple of articles. 

 

UK signs first major post-Brexit trade deal with Japan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54116606

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/11/uk-government-historic-trade-deal-japan-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Edited September 11, 2020 by Bluespunk

[AndrewMciver]

I am hoping for a deal, but this whole 'breaking an international agreement' is a whole load of horse manure. 

 

I remember being in Japan last year when Trump threw out the The Trans-Pacific Partnership that Obama had agreed a few years earlier. Not a single feacal plop was done. 

 

The Paris Climate accord treaty also broken. 

 

Kyoto protocol also broken. 

 

If the EU really want to hurt the UK, all they have to do is threaten them with a block on importing their goods. That would seriously <deleted> the UK up. 

 

The problem with the UK, is they have no room for negotiation or bargaining. Any attempts to go down a hardcore no deal route would mean the short term destruction would be horrific. So far the EU have played nice (most likely because they don't want to alienate the UK population who in generations to come may look to rejoin), and i am not sure if they would be inclined to get nasty by banning all UK goods (which they have threatened to do this morning with soundbites) - but if they did the UK would be screwed.

 

It's a posturing isn't it. The UK want to play hardball. Ireland are just an excuse to keep the UK tied closely. But the UK really screwed up by the delicate situation of Ireland. 

 

Is Ireland still an issue though for people in Ireland? 

 

Essentially we are back to where we were last year. I can't quite fathom what the point of the year long period is from last year to now is all about. 

Edited September 11, 2020 by AndrewMciver

[herfiehandbag]

11 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Yes, immediately... 

Pity we did not listen to Charles de Gaulle, and did ever join these treacherous British... even a ratification of the British Parliament does not hold 9 months...

Would that have been the same Charles De Gaulle who liberated France in 1944, with a little bit of help from "Les Anglo Saxons" on the fringes of the whole business?

Edited September 11, 2020 by herfiehandbag

[polpott]

26 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Would that have been the same Charles De Gaulle who liberated France in 1944, with a little bit of help from "Les Anglo Saxons" on the fringes of the whole business?

Aka Ungreatful git.

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

 

Is Ireland still an issue though for people in Ireland? 

Yes. 

[izod10]

10 hours ago, david555 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/11/brexit-news-deal-eu-boris-johnson-withdrawal-agreement-brussels/

Amy Jones, Political Correspondent

11 September 2020 • 3:44pm

 

Brexit latest news:

Boris Johnson to address Tory MPs in attempt to head off growing backbench rebellion 
The Prime Minister will urge backbenchers to support his controversial plans to override the Brexit divorce deal this evening, as MPs plan to rebel over controversial new legislation....
 

He still has 50 seat majority  

Ireland ,as Boris has stated are chock a block   of useful idiots   no more so than now

Edited September 12, 2020 by izod10

[polpott]

2 minutes ago, izod10 said:

He still has 50 seat majority  

80

[izod10]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

80

Christ  no   30 of them are against Boris  duh

[robblok]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Where is the answer for this for starters.

"Unlike Holland and Ireland, referendums in the UK are not ignored. But also many people like me believe we shouldn't have another one because they didn't like the result"

 

I see you are an expert now on Brexit and British issues.

I answered it later on. I said it before the referendum was not binding and now we got a 70% pro EU vote. Thank god we did not leave. Actually after watching the debacle that is Brexit support for EU went UP. Our politicians realized that they should tell the truth and not like those in the UK blame the EU for all things they themselves did wrong.

 

They stopped blaming the EU and gave truthful information and the rating went up a lot. So yes I am happy that we remained. Am I happy about everything the EU does.. certainly not. 

 

Then again the Dutch are more pragmatic then the Brits. It was mainly the migrant problem that made people want to leave the EU. But politicians stopped blaming the EU for it and changed laws and did things to improve. 

 

I guess your one of those not flexible people as i stated before. When a situation change people should be free to change. Like now in 2014 the Scots voted stay in Uk because they did not see the UK leaving the EU. This is a major change so people have a right for a new vote. Now according to your laws they still have to wait a bit but if the UK is that untrustworthy that it does not hold itself to laws why should the Scots.

[Laughing Gravy]

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

I answered it later on. I said it before the referendum was not binding and now we got a 70% pro EU vote.

No you never. I understand English is not your first language and you do very well. But you did not explain it at all.

 

20 minutes ago, robblok said:

Then again the Dutch are more pragmatic then the Brits

Really I could use other words but you would probably take offence.

 

22 minutes ago, robblok said:

I guess your one of those not flexible people as i stated before. When a situation change people should be free to change. Like now in 2014 the Scots voted stay in Uk because they did not see the UK leaving the EU.

How flexible do you have to be 43 years waiting for a referendum and so many times people tried to get a vote.

 

24 minutes ago, robblok said:

So yes I am happy that we remained. Am I happy about everything the EU does.. certainly not.

Just so you know as you are new to these threads on brexit. i am not against Europe or the countries just the EU and what is stands for and what it has morphed into from the EEC.

 

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

Like now in 2014 the Scots voted stay in Uk because they did not see the UK leaving the EU.

Well that's the reason some are giving. how ironic that posters are shouting about the UK leaving the EU but are supporting Scotland leaving the UK which has been part of a union for a far lot longer.

 

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

So yes I am happy that we remained. Am I happy about everything the EU does.. certainly not. 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and if your happy to remain and have the freedoms and liberties taken away from you by the EU, well good luck.

 

Nothing more to say.

[jak2002003]

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and if your happy to remain and have the freedoms and liberties taken away from you by the EU, well good luck.

 

Nothing more to say.

What freedoms and liberty have been taken away from you by the EU? 

 

Mr freedoms and liberty are being taken away by leaving the EU! Freedom to move around, work, live in anywhere I choose in Europe. Workers rights, human rights protections, protections for my environment and nature, and many more.  

 

Our UK government does not care about its people if the are not wealthy. People are all going to be on minimum wage, zero hour contracts, and cutting or stopping their benefits.

 

 

 

 

[polpott]

Just now, izod10 said:

The freedom to decide,the UK to make its own decisions.   Freedom to live and work,not the spongers from eU countries it does not

   Put this up before  99% of somalian women immigrants to UK will not work  ,90% of Somalian men will not work  same same most African middle eastern states too.  You keep the rag bag army off the UK shores  good for everyone

 No protection for that bunch,no nothing

Unfortunately leaving the EU has not had and will not have any effect on this issue. Shame so many people voted leave on an issue that the EU has no control over.

[izod10]

15 minutes ago, polpott said:

Unfortunately leaving the EU has not had and will not have any effect on this issue. Shame so many people voted leave on an issue that the EU has no control over.

would say denying access to financial means,denying access to accommodation,foodbanks even.  The new financial bill about to become law ,    Id say one step away from ID cards will cause the illegals to throw up and clear off

[polpott]

9 minutes ago, izod10 said:

would say denying access to financial means,denying access to accommodation,foodbanks even.  The new financial bill about to become law ,    Id say one step away from ID cards will cause the illegals to throw up and clear off

You'd say, no rational person would. You're dreaming.

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, izod10 said:

Christ  no   30 of them are against Boris  duh

Then his majority is 20, duh...think about it. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Bluespunk

[Rookiescot]

Philippe Sands QC, a professor of international law at University College London, said: “Every international lawyer is familiar with the Vienna convention on the law of treaties, and its article 27, which reflects a general principle: ‘A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty’.

“There is simply no way around this binding rule – to opine that parliament is sovereign is, in this sense, hopeless.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/11/brexit-override-plan-would-breach-vienna-convention-qc-says

 

Is Johnson now going to pull the UK out of the Vienna convention?

[Mavideol]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Philippe Sands QC, a professor of international law at University College London, said: “Every international lawyer is familiar with the Vienna convention on the law of treaties, and its article 27, which reflects a general principle: ‘A party may not invoke the provisions of its internal law as justification for its failure to perform a treaty’.

“There is simply no way around this binding rule – to opine that parliament is sovereign is, in this sense, hopeless.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/11/brexit-override-plan-would-breach-vienna-convention-qc-says

 

Is Johnson now going to pull the UK out of the Vienna convention?

honestly I don't think the problem is BJ, he's not smart enough to understand the law, would bet mostly in Gove and Cummings...

[Rookiescot]

Just now, Mavideol said:

honestly I don't think the problem is BJ, he's not smart enough to understand the law, would bet mostly in Gove and Cummings...

Gove yes but Cummings no. 

Cummings is not brave enough to put his name to a bill which breaks international law.

That sleekit Gove on the other hand. He will probably champion this and then suddenly find he has to leave the country so is unable to vote for it.

Leave Johnson facing the music.

 

[polpott]

3 hours ago, izod10 said:

Christ  no   30 of them are against Boris  duh

Won't be on Monday, not if they value their jobs.