Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[rudi49jr]

As war drags on, Russia expert says ‘Putin needs to watch his back’

 

 

Hopefully some brave ‘Brutus’ will stand up and stab Putin in the back, either literally or figuratively. Not much chance of that, I know, but one can always hope….

On the other hand: if that happens, who knows what/who will take Putin’s place? So maybe have to be careful what you wish for.

[ozimoron]

Russia says that despite sanctions it can fare well without what it casts as a deceitful and decadent West led by the United States. It says its bid to forge ties with the West after the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union is now over and that it will develop ties with other powers such as China.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-will-put-its-enemies-such-united-states-their-place-medvedev-says-2022-03-17/

[wofat]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

powers such as China

And with Iran when they construct the nuclear reactor.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/russia-says-it-has-written-guarantees-iran-nuclear-deal-2022-03-15/

[ozimoron]

Economically, Russia is done. The kleptocracy that spent decades skimming from an extraction economy while failing to fund public programs, education, infrastructure, or the military, has discovered that the well has a bottom after all.

 

-----------

 

It was already clear that Putin has a fetish for restoring the Soviet Union—a name that both Putin and his advisers have repeatedly used in recent weeks when describing the Russian Federation. What wasn’t clear is that Putin’s admiration of all things Soviet included the bread lines, famine, labor camps, and political purges

 

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/17/2086458/-Ukraine-update-Can-Russia-survive-Putin-s-War

Edited March 17, 2022 by ozimoron

[impulse]

59 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Private citizens? Or accomplices in war crimes?

 

Russians have up to $213 billion stashed offshore in Swiss banks

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russians-have-up-213-billion-stashed-offshore-swiss-banks-2022-03-17/

The yachts are not an implement of war, nor do they belong to the sanctioned gub'ment.    Taking them from private citizens with no due process is a violation of law.

 

Seems only reasonable that the Russkies can hold onto Western assets if those are the new rules.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

The yachts are not an implement of war, nor do they belong to the sanctioned gub'ment.    Taking them from private citizens with no due process is a violation of law.

 

Seems only reasonable that the Russkies can hold onto Western assets if those are the new rules.

They are a way of putting pressure on Putin - that is the rationale. As a BM recently put it, war is war. Those kleptocrats are helping keep Putin in power and helped put him there.

[Slip]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Re group and bring in the Syrian terrorists.............

 

Ukraine’s military intelligence: Syria to provide Russia with 40,000 mercenaries. Some 150 Syrians were transferred to Russia to take part in its war against Ukraine on March 15; up to 300 are ordered to be sent to Ukraine every day.

 

More weapons and military equipment are planned to be transferred from Syria to Russia and Belarus soon, Ukraine’s military intelligence reports. According to the report, some Syrian mercenaries see this as an opportunity for illegal immigration to the EU.

So this suggests that such soldiers will immediately go AWOL?  Better that than the alternative. Putin may have stuffed up yet again.

[Scott]

14 minutes ago, impulse said:

The yachts are not an implement of war, nor do they belong to the sanctioned gub'ment.    Taking them from private citizens with no due process is a violation of law.

 

Seems only reasonable that the Russkies can hold onto Western assets if those are the new rules.

US law allows for the confiscation of property that has been used in illegal activities.   Confiscating the property is not a real high bar, but keeping the property is.  When actually claiming property then the courts get involved.  

 

A drug kingpin flying into the US and getting arrested, for example, will most likely have his private jet confiscated, but the gov't has to prove the plane was purchased with laundered money or used for transporting drugs.  

 

Just as an example, I knew a group of good ol' boys who decided to do a little illegal winter hunting.  One of them had a plane and used it to spot deer and then 4 guys with snowmobiles would chase them out and shoot them.  They got caught.  The plane was confiscated, the snowmobiles were confiscated, along with the trailer and pickup used to haul them and the rifles/guns they used.  

 

It took some time, but once the guys were convicted, then the gov't proceeded with taking ownership of the property and it was eventually sold at public auction.  I do know the rather popular practice of poaching came to a screeching halt. 

[Scott]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

The problem is that it's a slippery slope and today, the US police can confiscate any money they find on you, even with no suspicions.  You have to sue to get it back.  Look up civil forfeiture to see how many place that's being abused.  In many cases, the cost of the lawsuit exceeds the few thousand dollars they're holding.

 

Last month, the Canadian gub'ment sized the bank accounts of truckers exercising their charter rights...

 

We either live in a rules based world or we don't.  I have no love for the Oligarchs, and have no issues with going after them and their loot legally.  But if the West is going to start confiscating assets of people just because they know the legally elected leader of a sovereign country, don't be surprised when they start confiscating western owned assets.  They'll give 'em back when you take them to court.  And give their assets back to them.

 

Again...  You can't have it both ways.

 

Russia has confiscated the airplanes belonging to airlines. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-is-seizing-hundreds-of-lessor-planes-poses-risk-passengers-2022-3

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Scott said:

Russia has confiscated the airplanes belonging to airlines. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-is-seizing-hundreds-of-lessor-planes-poses-risk-passengers-2022-3

And I contended that seems pretty reasonable, given the amount of Russky stuff that's being confiscated around the world.

 

I don't support Putin, or his war in Ukraine.  But if you confiscate Russian assets, you have no right to complain when they confiscate western assets under the same rules.  Or rather, a similar violation of the rules.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

And I contended that seems pretty reasonable, given the amount of Russky stuff that's being confiscated around the world.

 

I don't support Putin, or his war in Ukraine.  But if you confiscate Russian assets, you have no right to complain when they confiscate western assets under the same rules.  Or rather, a similar violation of the rules.

One of those countries invaded a sovereign country and committed war crimes. The others didn't. It's not hard to assume that the west knew Russia would retaliate but they will come out losing in the end. When sanctions are lifted, the company leasing the aircraft will seek compensation for their losses.

Edited March 17, 2022 by ozimoron

[ozimoron]

How Putin’s Oligarchs Bought London

From banking to boarding schools, the British establishment has long been at their service, discretion guaranteed.

 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/28/how-putins-oligarchs-bought-london

[nauseus]

30 minutes ago, impulse said:

Let's just make it simple.  If you're gonna steal stuff from the Russkies, don't complain when they steal your stuff.

They started that right after WW2.

[tgw]

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-17-22/index.html

 

"There is no rescue operation" to help survivors of Mariupol theater attack, according to former official

Taruta said it was his understanding there were about 1,300 people sheltering in the theatre, of whom 130 people had been rescued so far, according to the latest information he had.

[Danderman123]

15 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Isn't it pretty obvious that is happening in some area's or are you trying to play on the words insurgents, be it insurgents or defense forces or regular forces there are areas been taken back from the Russian forces

 

Separately, Ukraine forces have retaken the regional airport in the Mykolayiv region, the local governor has said.

While analysts predict Russia should have enough resources to take key parts of Ukraine, holding them could be trickier - with the potential for a drawn-out guerrilla struggle.

 

LVIV, Ukraine (Reuters) - Ukrainian forces have retaken control of the town of Chuhuiv in northeastern Ukraine, presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych told a briefing on Monday.

Further details were not immediately available on the situation in the town in the Kharkiv region, where fighting has been heavy since Russia invaded Ukraine.

I did see a video where there was combat behind enemy lines, and a couple of armored vehicles were destroyed. 

 

But I was talking more along the lines of the French Resistance. 

[Meat Pie 47]

So guys I am an old guy living in OZ I would like to sponser a  ukraine living with me free of charge I have just a 2 bedroom unit so it might not be big enough for a family but I love to help so how do I do get in contact with people in help ?

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I did see a video where there was combat behind enemy lines, and a couple of armored vehicles were destroyed. 

 

But I was talking more along the lines of the French Resistance. 

Sorry, there are a few reporters dying so not all able to film the battle scenes

[Bkk Brian]

6 hours ago, impulse said:

Which rule of law allows EU nations to steal $600million yachts from private citizens?

 

Can't have it both ways.

Rule of law? Better look to who started this illegal invasion, flattening cities, murdering civilians and occupying a soveriegn country.

 

Three options, send in Nato with no fly zone and the real risk of WW3. Show restraint and apply sanctions. Do nothing.

 

If Russia holds onto leased foriegn airplanes so be it.

[RJRS1301]

11 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

You’re having a laugh, right? Are you seriously trying to tell me it would be okay if your neighbor came to your house and asked you to vacate your living room because he wanted to occupy it? And then afterwards the neighbor can defend his action by saying that he did come to your house to ask you to withdraw from the living room, and you didn’t want to, so he had no choice but to use force.
That’s a very special kind of insane logic, don’t you think?

Nah the logic coming from the propaganda daily talking points is totally lacking

The claims in the new talking points is the Theatre was bombed by an inside group of Ukrainians, the "hostages/human shields in the hospital basement are being "safeguarded" for their own good.

 

[RJRS1301]

7 hours ago, impulse said:

And I contended that seems pretty reasonable, given the amount of Russky stuff that's being confiscated around the world.

 

I don't support Putin, or his war in Ukraine.  But if you confiscate Russian assets, you have no right to complain when they confiscate western assets under the same rules.  Or rather, a similar violation of the rules.

Those assets have been seized under internationally agreed sanctions, the invasion actually occurred before the sanctions were put in place by many nations.

Just so you understand : Russia was also warned before the invasion of sovereign territory that economic sanctions would be put against the country and powerful individuals with close relationships to the dictator in chief . The countries which have approved their sanctions against Russia and the individuals actually had approval from the parliaments, congress to carry out the sanctions. Legislation and policy approved  on country wides basis. 

 

Description

Economic sanctions are commercial and financial penalties applied by one or more countries against a targeted self-governing state, group, or individual. Economic sanctions are not necessarily imposed because of economic circumstances—they may also be imposed for a variety of political, military, and social issues. Wikipedia

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by RJRS1301

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Russia says that despite sanctions it can fare well without what it casts as a deceitful and decadent West led by the United States. It says its bid to forge ties with the West after the 1991 fall of the Soviet Union is now over and that it will develop ties with other powers such as China.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-will-put-its-enemies-such-united-states-their-place-medvedev-says-2022-03-17/

Going cap-in-hand to China with your economy in tatters and currency near worthless and credit rating at ‘trash’.

 

China will burden Russia wit unplayable debt and strip the Russians of control

Its natural resources.

 

Enjoy.

[ozimoron]

Ukrainian and Western intelligence analysts have long predicted that Russia’s post-war strategy would follow a pattern set in Crimea, as well as in Donetsk and Luhansk, two Ukrainian regions where pro-Russian separatists brutalized the local populations, sowed chaos and destruction, and formed corrupt puppet regimes to govern the so-called People’s Republics.

“I know their political plan; it’s very obvious for me,” said Oleksandra Matviichuk, a Kyiv-based human rights lawyer and director of the Center for Civil Liberties, which documents war crimes.

“Their plan is to occupy territories, physically liquidate active people, find people they can appoint as local representatives and control them,” she added. “We saw this in 2014, when the war started, how they work.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-fights-back-kremlin-russia-blueprint/

[Berkshire]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

I don't support Putin, or his war in Ukraine.  But if you confiscate Russian assets, you have no right to complain when they confiscate western assets under the same rules.  Or rather, a similar violation of the rules.

"....under the same rules".....??   You really believe it's a "similar violation of the rules?"  I suppose if Putin can demonstrate that the assets he confiscated were from countries that invaded another country, you'd be correct.  Otherwise..... 

[Saanim]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sorry, there are a few reporters dying so not all able to film the battle scenes

There are conflicting stories about the reporters deaths.

 

For instance, about the one last week, Brent Renaud, we could read everywhere he was of NYT, having on his neck the lanyard with NYT badge. 

 

However, it was retracted by NYT editor that he has been no longer been - over 7 years - with NYT, nor having an assignment from them. According some he was working for US intel.

 

And his death seems to be by a friendly shot, after they pathed the checkpoint and were shot at, they turned back to the checkpoint when he got it again. As it comes out from the wording of his pal on camera immediately after the incident, when he lays sidewards and his wound are attended to. (Google is your friend)

 

         

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Saanim

[Saanim]

58 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

"....under the same rules".....??   You really believe it's a "similar violation of the rules?"  I suppose if Putin can demonstrate that the assets he confiscated were from countries that invaded another country, you'd be correct.  Otherwise..... 

When starting confiscating assets of invading countries...  ???? 

(Opening Pandora's box?)

Edited March 18, 2022 by Saanim

[Saanim]

13 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Hopefully some brave ‘Brutus’ will stand up and stab Putin in the back, either literally or figuratively. Not much chance of that, I know, but one can always hope….

Actually, in his country there are not cases of such a way of removing a sitting president (as it had happened elsewhere...)  

[Bkk Brian]

36 minutes ago, Saanim said:

There are conflicting stories about the reporters deaths.

 

For instance, about the one last week, Brent Renaud, we could read everywhere he was of NYT, having on his neck the lanyard with NYT badge. 

 

However, it was retracted by NYT editor that he has been no longer been - over 7 years - with NYT, nor having an assignment from them. According some he was working for US intel.

 

And his death seems to be by a friendly shot, after they pathed the checkpoint and were shot at, they turned back to the checkpoint when he got it again. As it comes out from the wording of his pal on camera immediately after the incident, when he lays sidewards and his wound are attended to. (Google is your friend)

 

         

 

 

Its only conflicting if you try to make it so. Whats very clear is that when he was shot and killed he was wearing his out dated NYT press card but "Time Magazine" confirmed he was in fact working for them on assignment covering the refugee crisis. While at a checkpoint they were fired on along with his colleague who was filmed and interviewed at the hospital.

 

Certainly no mention of friendly fire even in the video of his US colleague who was also shot and in hospital here. Link to that claim?

 

Regards Google being my friend, you obviously missed I posted this same video a week ago..

 

Any conflicting stories to tell on these other ones killed?

 

3 journalists, including Fox News cameraperson, killed in Ukraine

Edited March 18, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[GroveHillWanderer]

14 hours ago, impulse said:

Which rule of law allows EU nations to steal $600million yachts from private citizens?

 

Can't have it both ways.

Not sure what you're on about here - most countries have laws that allow the seizure of an individual's assets when that country's authorities consider it appropriate. 

 

In the US for instance they have the Magnitsky Act, passed in 2016, which applies globally and authorizes the U.S. government to sanction individuals, freeze their assets, and ban them from entering the US.

 

The EU no doubt has similar laws.

Edited March 18, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[Saanim]

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Certainly no mention of friendly fire even in the video of his US colleague who was also shot and in hospital here. Link to that claim?

 

Quote

'We had crossed the first bridge in Irpin. We were going to film other refugees leaving we got into a car. Somebody offered to take us to the other bridge. We crossed a checkpoint and they started shooting at us. The driver turned around, there were two of us. My friend is Brent Renaud. He has been shot and left behind. I saw he has been shot in the neck. We got split,' Arredondo said.

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Saanim said:

 

 

I just posted a link to the same video in my previous post to you and additionally a week ago on this thread. Again I ask you of your claim.

 

"his death seems to be by a friendly shot"

 

Where in that video backs up such a claim? You are spreading fake and false propaganda