Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office

[vandeventer]

59 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

This would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerous. Why on earth was Biden squirrelling away so much classified documents? With the guys alleged questionable relations with certain Ukrainians and Chinese this is quite terrifying. If we still had an impartial DOJ I expect his houses would have been stormed and all his mobile devices taken to check whether he was misusing these secrets to please his "friends abroad". This is why having a clean POTUS is so important, and why until JB corruption in govt was taken very very seriously. I certainly hope the media won't kill this story 

Surly impeachment comes soon? How much more will be found???

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Surly impeachment comes soon? How much more will be found???

I don't recall Trump supporters being nearly this upset about the much larger stash of classified kept less securely at Mar-a-Lago.  You know, the stuff that Trump denied having, wouldn't return, suggested was planted, etc.

[EVENKEEL]

The humor is there. The left cult was going crazy before with wild accusations and imaginary scenarios based on speculation regarding Trump. 

 

And now it's Biden's turn.

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

The humor is there. The left cult was going crazy before with wild accusations and imaginary scenarios based on speculation regarding Trump. 

 

And now it's Biden's turn.

We’ll do have a few facts on our side.

[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Surly impeachment comes soon? How much more will be found???

Surely you are aware impeachment relates to behavior in the office being impeached?

 

Alleged sins prior to coming into that office are not impeachable.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

The humor is there. The left cult was going crazy before with wild accusations and imaginary scenarios based on speculation regarding Trump. 

 

And now it's Biden's turn.

Hilarious attempt at changing history. The speculation was started by Trump with his wild speculative rants on Truth Social and media along with pure conspiracy theories. The cult followed his every word and amplified it. You reap what you sow when the same came back from some on the left. I would give you some examples but that would be off topic.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

The humor is there. The left cult was going crazy before with wild accusations and imaginary scenarios based on speculation regarding Trump. 

 

And now it's Biden's turn.

I sure we'll be hearing all sorts of reasons why it's OK for Biden to keep classified documents, but not for Trump to do so. LOL.

Oh, the irony is so delicious.

[placeholder]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I sure we'll be hearing all sorts of reasons why it's OK for Biden to keep classified documents, but not for Trump to do so. LOL.

Oh, the irony is so delicious.

Not nearly so delicious as the ignorance in conflating the two.

[vandeventer]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I don't recall Trump supporters being nearly this upset about the much larger stash of classified kept less securely at Mar-a-Lago.  You know, the stuff that Trump denied having, wouldn't return, suggested was planted, etc.

Again Trump was a President, Biden was a VP, Trump can de classify the doc's Biden could not. It seems like Biden forgot he even had them. This is just starting to open up in a week we will know a lot more so sit back and enjoy the ride.

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Again Trump was a President, Biden was a VP, Trump can de classify the doc's Biden could not. It seems like Biden forgot he even had them. This is just starting to open up in a week we will know a lot more so sit back and enjoy the ride.

Once again, even if Trump did declassify the documents just by "thinking", which is dubious, it's still not a defense against the criminal charges he could be liable for.

[pomchop]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Once again, even if Trump did declassify the documents just by "thinking", which is dubious, it's still not a defense against the criminal charges he could be liable for.

Facts are something that trumpers have a very difficult time dealing with as they have gulped the kool aide from a guy that told so many lies as POTUS to make anyone's head spin. 

 

The "facts" as to how trump evaded obstructed re classified docs are very very different from finding docs and turning them in without all the drama of i don't have any and if i do i declassified them and if that didn't work they all belong to me anyway even though the law says otherwise and my lawyer certified i turned them all over after being ordered to do so but i really did not.... why's everybody always picking on me.

 

Those damn pesky FACTS.  

[EVENKEEL]

40 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hilarious attempt at changing history. The speculation was started by Trump with his wild speculative rants on Truth Social and media along with pure conspiracy theories. The cult followed his every word and amplified it. You reap what you sow when the same came back from some on the left. I would give you some examples but that would be off topic.

What are you on about? Post what you like, but your response has zero to do with mine.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

What are you on about? Post what you like, but your response has zero to do with mine.

I wasn't asking your permission to post..lol

 

Feel free to tell me why my post had nothing to do with yours because it directly addresses your point.

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The humor is there. The left cult was going crazy before with wild accusations and imaginary scenarios based on speculation regarding Trump. 

 

And now it's Biden's turn.

 

43 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hilarious attempt at changing history. The speculation was started by Trump with his wild speculative rants on Truth Social and media along with pure conspiracy theories. The cult followed his every word and amplified it. You reap what you sow when the same came back from some on the left. I would give you some examples but that would be off topic.

 

[vandeventer]

22 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Facts are something that trumpers have a very difficult time dealing with as they have gulped the kool aide from a guy that told so many lies as POTUS to make anyone's head spin. 

 

The "facts" as to how trump evaded obstructed re classified docs are very very different from finding docs and turning them in without all the drama of i don't have any and if i do i declassified them and if that didn't work they all belong to me anyway even though the law says otherwise and my lawyer certified i turned them all over after being ordered to do so but i really did not.... why's everybody always picking on me.

 

Those damn pesky FACTS.  

History will prove you wrong, Trump will go down as one of Americas Greatest Presidents and Biden will be far behind Carter.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

The humor is there. The left cult was going crazy before with wild accusations and imaginary scenarios based on speculation regarding Trump. 

 

And now it's Biden's turn.

You mean the wild speculation that Trump denied possessing documents that he clearly was not legally entitled to have? That he committed obstruction of justice by said denial? That he violated the law by being willfully in possession of these documents and failed to turn them over to authorized agents of the government when requested to do so?

This is your idea of wild accusations and imaginary scenarios?

[TKDfella]

14 hours ago, Tug said:

There is no comparison trump willfully and illegally stole state secrets for what purpose is unknown at this time he compermised our National security and quite possibly caused the deaths of some of our allies he lied stole obstructed and is still trying to ferment the destruction of our democratic institutions and democracy it’s self.Joe Biden’s screw up is what it is a screw up quite possibly a staff member screw up it was and is unintentional and was delt with in the correct way.Now we can all see the republicans desperately trying to run their slander politics play book it’s all they got it’s impossible to change them they are to far gone imo we just need to vote them out 

Now, you may be right about fmr. Pres. Trump but I don't think it has be proven that he 'wilfully and illegally stole...'. I saw the video where Pres. Biden is on stage with other leaders and he denies being aware that such documents were in the office. So it needs to be confirmed as why the documents were in the first place, for whom they were there. I find his denial a bit difficult to understand since it was his VP office and surely such important documents would have required his notification.

Edited January 12, 2023 by TKDfella

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Now, you may be right about fmr. Pres. Trump but I don't think it has be proven that he 'wilfully and illegally stole...'. I saw the video where Pres. Biden is on stage with other leaders and he denies being aware that such documents were in the office. So it needs to be confirmed as why the documents were in the first place, for whom they were there. I find his denial a bit difficult to understand since it was his VP office and surely such important documents would have required his notification.

The mere fact of possession is not enough to qualify as a violation of the law. To qualify as a criminal violation the law says that the possession of the documents has to be in willful violation of the law. Given that Trump lied about being in possession of them makes for a very strong case in that regard. It is also a violation of the law to refuse to turn over the documents after being requested to do so. That would be another violation. 

[pomchop]

29 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

History will prove you wrong, Trump will go down as one of Americas Greatest Presidents and Biden will be far behind Carter.

drink that kool aide.....trump may well go down but it won't be as a great president but as americas greatest con man / grifter.....

[TKDfella]

42 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The mere fact of possession is not enough to qualify as a violation of the law. To qualify as a criminal violation the law says that the possession of the documents has to be in willful violation of the law. Given that Trump lied about being in possession of them makes for a very strong case in that regard. It is also a violation of the law to refuse to turn over the documents after being requested to do so. That would be another violation. 

I don't know what the US law states but that is not my point. 'Tug' wrote categorically that fmr. Pres. Trump '...stole...' etc. and I think we on this forum should be cautious about making such statements about anyone, let alone Presidents of the US. As a side note, I understand that another batch of classified documents have been found in PennBiden Office. Seems to me that the US system recording to whom and where such important documents are, is in need of a complete overhaul. How long have these documents been in place without supervision? If there was supervision why were they not declared at the time when (then) VP Biden vacated the office?

Edited January 12, 2023 by TKDfella

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, TKDfella said:

I don't what the US law states and that is not my point. 'Tug' wrote categorically that fmr. Pres. Trump '...stole...' etc. and I think we on this forum should be cautious about making such statements about anyone, let alone Presidents of the US. As a side note, I understand that another batch of classified documents have been found in PennBiden Office. Seems to me that the US system recording to whom and where such important documents are, is in need of a complete overhaul. How long have these documents been in place without supervision? If there was supervision why were they not declared at the time when (then) VP Biden vacated the office?

I don't what the US law states and that is not my point. 'Tug' wrote categorically that fmr. Pres. Trump '...stole...' etc. and I think we on this forum should be cautious about making such statements about anyone, let alone Presidents of the US.

 

Trump’s Stolen Documents Had Classified Info on China and Iran

 It seems extremely clear that Donald Trump violated several laws by spiriting government documents out of the White House to Mar-a-Lago and refusing to give them back. 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/10/trumps-stolen-documents-had-classified-info-on-china-iran.html

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, vandeventer said:

History will prove you wrong, Trump will go down as one of Americas Greatest Presidents and Biden will be far behind Carter.

History will have the distinction to record Trump as twice impeached and soon to be arrested and charged for several criminal offenses since President Ulysses in 1872. 

[Hanaguma]

27 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

History will have the distinction to record Trump as twice impeached and soon to be arrested and charged for several criminal offenses since President Ulysses in 1872. 

Ah yes.

"The walls are closing in".

"It's the beginning of the end for Trump".

"Another bombshell revelation". 

 

I think I have been hearing this tune being played since 2016...

 

As for Biden, at best this episode shows that his mental facilities have been deteriorating for longer than many people suspect, certainly from before he was elected President. Yet somehow he can cling to office, perhaps due to his clever choice of VP- a person so obviously over her head and incompetent that even the most hardened Trumpers would blanch at the thought of her holding the Presidency.

[billd766]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rather like all the uproven accusations against Trump then. Seems the importance of anything to do with either Biden or Trump is dependent on which side one is.

Not so at all.

 

Ex-president Trump is still being investigated on many different charges by a number of federal and state agencies.

 

AFAIK President Biden has not been accused or charged with anything, not even any accusations.

 

There is a world of difference between the two, and surely you can see the difference.

[Eric Loh]

26 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Ah yes.

"The walls are closing in".

"It's the beginning of the end for Trump".

"Another bombshell revelation". 

 

I think I have been hearing this tune being played since 2016...

 

As for Biden, at best this episode shows that his mental facilities have been deteriorating for longer than many people suspect, certainly from before he was elected President. Yet somehow he can cling to office, perhaps due to his clever choice of VP- a person so obviously over her head and incompetent that even the most hardened Trumpers would blanch at the thought of her holding the Presidency.

History will still record him as the only President to be impeached twice with Senate bipartisan vote to convict him but fell short of the 2/3 majority required by the constitution. History will also record him as the only President with multiple criminal and civil charges and convictions probably in April. 

 

As for Biden, he will be credited for his accomplishments with the Inflation Reduction Act, improved health care for veterans. action to address gun violence and best of all restoring the American leadership on the world stage especially for Ukraine. Sorry I simply can't name any Trump's accomplishment except for inciting an insurrection (sarcasm alert).  

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, TKDfella said:

I don't know what the US law states but that is not my point. 'Tug' wrote categorically that fmr. Pres. Trump '...stole...' etc. and I think we on this forum should be cautious about making such statements about anyone, let alone Presidents of the US. As a side note, I understand that another batch of classified documents have been found in PennBiden Office. Seems to me that the US system recording to whom and where such important documents are, is in need of a complete overhaul. How long have these documents been in place without supervision? If there was supervision why were they not declared at the time when (then) VP Biden vacated the office?

We're not a court of law here. And the evidence is overwhelming that Trump took those documents after having been advised by legal counsel not to. Then after he returned some (after protracted negotiations) he denied having any more. When Justice Dept reps showed up at Mar a Lago his attorneys denied them access to boxes said to contain these documents. When eventually they served a warrant, not only did they find documents in in those boxes they even found some of these documents in his bedroom. I think that's a very strong prima facie case for saying he stole them.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

History will prove you wrong, Trump will go down as one of Americas Greatest Presidents and Biden will be far behind Carter.

I’m increasingly certain you are at least partially correct, Trump will go down.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, vandeventer said:

Again Trump was a President, Biden was a VP, Trump can de classify the doc's Biden could not. It seems like Biden forgot he even had them. This is just starting to open up in a week we will know a lot more so sit back and enjoy the ride.

Again there is no evidence Trump ever declassified the documents.  Again taking Presidential records is against the PRA law.  Again Trump denied having the records, refused to return them, suggested they were planted, etc.  Again documents don't have to be classified to be subject to the Espionage Act, they simply have to be of value to a foreign adversary and the person holding the documents, Trump, must refuse to return them.

 

Do you have any experience at all in dealing with classified?

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

We're not a court of law here. And the evidence is overwhelming that Trump took those documents after having been advised by legal counsel not to. Then after he returned some (after protracted negotiations) he denied having any more. When Justice Dept reps showed up at Mar a Lago his attorneys denied them access to boxes said to contain these documents. When eventually they served a warrant, not only did they find documents in in those boxes they even found some of these documents in his bedroom. I think that's a very strong prima facie case for saying he stole them.

Next up, why did he steel them?!

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, TKDfella said:

Now, you may be right about fmr. Pres. Trump but I don't think it has be proven that he 'wilfully and illegally stole...'. I saw the video where Pres. Biden is on stage with other leaders and he denies being aware that such documents were in the office. So it needs to be confirmed as why the documents were in the first place, for whom they were there. I find his denial a bit difficult to understand since it was his VP office and surely such important documents would have required his notification.

You clearly have not worked with classified.  The higher ups leave it to their staff to take care of administrative details such as securing classified.

 

I concede that recent history shows that many politicians and their chosen staff do not have the training and appreciation of the importance of properly handling classified information.  That is a problem that needs to be addressed.  But there is a huge difference between inadvertent lapses in securing classified and obstructing the correct securing of classified.

[candide]

7 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Tells me all I need to know that you ignore the salient facts in the post...the apparent mishandling of classified government documents on at least two occasions at two different places by Joseph Robinette Biden Jr., and if Attorney General Merrick Garland will appoint a special prosecutor to investigate any criminal wrongdoing therein.

Which facts? Biden gave back two times documents he found.

Edited January 12, 2023 by candide