Electric cars

[Stevemercer]

6 hours ago, natway09 said:

Until  a country (NZ not far away) has 90% recyclable non fossil  energy available for electricity

generation I will stay with Betsy.

 

 

 

I think Norway is 100% renewals based on hydropower. The country produces plenty of natural gas and hydrocarbons, but these are piped or shipped to other countries to burn.

 

I don't know where France is if you counted nuclear power as 'recyclable' (in that it doesn't produce greenhouse gases).

 

It's interesting to look at past nuclear powered cars on YouTube.

[foreverlomsak]

8 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

all gasoline stations should have charging stations

electrics next to gasoline a recipe for disaster, as they would attempt to fill your tank and charge your battery at the same time here.

[sirineou]

Many of the EV naysayers I think are those who for whatever reason can't or won't  have one and since they cant or wont  have one   they convive themselves it sucks. 

IMO a bit of the "sour grapes "syndrome . 

EV are here to stay and not in the far future as some seem to think. There is an EV revolution in China with inexpensive EVs flooding the market. Go on Youtube and search "electric cars china" there is a company that has installations drive drive through car washes that  will swap your battery with a fresh charged battery  and charge yours 

Below is one that they just started importing in the US, with a 200,000 mile range that with incentives it  sell for a little less than $20,000. How long do you thing it will be for China , the great exporter starts selling in Thailand also? MG a Chinese company is already there, How much of your daily drive is more than 200 miles a day? It would be a perfect car for  a two car family.

My Ex wife in the US,(we are still very good friends) had a Nissan Leaf for years, She is Hospital administrator, and goes to work at the same place almost every day. She goes to work. parks it in the work provided area that has electric access, plugs it in and end of the day goes home, She has not spend a dollar in gas in years.

Once the Thai government wakes up and   gets aboard with incentives and/or relaxation of tax on EVs, what thai family or expat who lives in BKK would not want one for 600,000 bht? Heck I might get one myself. 90% of my driving is no more than 30 miles from home. 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by sirineou

[guzzi850m2]

34 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

electrics next to gasoline a recipe for disaster, as they would attempt to fill your tank and charge your battery at the same time here.

But they will off course be placed far away from the gasoline filling stations??

[foreverlomsak]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

MG a Chinese company is already there

MG is not a Chinese car Marque, MG stands for Morris Garages which originated in England a long time ago.

[foreverlomsak]

8 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

But they will off course be placed far away from the gasoline filling stations??

Using an ultra long cable.

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, foreverlomsak said:

MG is not a Chinese car Marque, MG stands for Morris Garages which originated in England a long time ago.

I think there is a popular song (american Pie) whose lyrics start with:

A long, long time ago
I can still remember how that music
Used to make me smile...

 

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, foreverlomsak said:

MG is not a Chinese car Marque, MG stands for Morris Garages which originated in England a long time ago.

 

And is owned by China, not sure history is really relevant to this topic.

[Sakeopete]

Has anyone asked what will happen to oil when the world goes EV. If I'm not mistake refining a barrel of oil yields about 70 - 80% fuel. Before the invention of the automobile gasoline was poured into rivers as waste in the USA. If we take away the need for gasoline and diesel how will we dispose of them? Can't dump them into the rivers anymore. 

If oil companies can't sell 70-80% of the refined product they will go out of business along with oil producers. We still need oil to make just about everything. 

Can we use plant based oils like palm to replace the petrochemical products from crude oil? Hemp to replace polyester fibers? Maybe but look what happened to virgin forests of Indonesia and Malaysia when the palm oil boom started. Millions of acres burned along with the endangered animals that lived in them. Orangutans fleeing the forest were killed by villagers. Considering most of us on the website live in Thailand we remember the smoke from Indonesia from burning those forest. The EU finally ban palm oil as bio fuel because of it.

So if oil refiners stop refining crude oil where will the alternative come from?

Corn can make plastics I use them almost daily but again when corn was used to make alcohol thousands of Mexicans went hungry and again forests were converted to farmland. The Amazon is already in trouble it will likely be wiped out to grow Green Alternatives.

This whole green movement to EV reminds me of when I was a boy and environmentalists convinced the world that paper shopping bags were hazardous and glass milk bottles used too much energy/chemicals to clean. The miracle fix was plastics look how well that turned out.  

[khunPer]

I can imagine fuel cell cars in a near future beats electric battery cars. Toyota, and others, already has well working models.

[guzzi850m2]

1 hour ago, Sakeopete said:

Has anyone asked what will happen to oil when the world goes EV. If I'm not mistake refining a barrel of oil yields about 70 - 80% fuel. Before the invention of the automobile gasoline was poured into rivers as waste in the USA. If we take away the need for gasoline and diesel how will we dispose of them? Can't dump them into the rivers anymore. 

If oil companies can't sell 70-80% of the refined product they will go out of business along with oil producers. We still need oil to make just about everything. 

Can we use plant based oils like palm to replace the petrochemical products from crude oil? Hemp to replace polyester fibers? Maybe but look what happened to virgin forests of Indonesia and Malaysia when the palm oil boom started. Millions of acres burned along with the endangered animals that lived in them. Orangutans fleeing the forest were killed by villagers. Considering most of us on the website live in Thailand we remember the smoke from Indonesia from burning those forest. The EU finally ban palm oil as bio fuel because of it.

So if oil refiners stop refining crude oil where will the alternative come from?

Corn can make plastics I use them almost daily but again when corn was used to make alcohol thousands of Mexicans went hungry and again forests were converted to farmland. The Amazon is already in trouble it will likely be wiped out to grow Green Alternatives.

This whole green movement to EV reminds me of when I was a boy and environmentalists convinced the world that paper shopping bags were hazardous and glass milk bottles used too much energy/chemicals to clean. The miracle fix was plastics look how well that turned out.  

For me the idea of using electric power to propel cars is the local pollution, imagine if +90% of all the vehicles on the road was not polluting direct from exhaust smoke! That would make the cities much much better places to stay.

 

Sure those EV's need to be charged using power from somewhere. A poster here on the MG tread says he have solar cells on his house and can therefore charge his car for free during the day without polluting, pretty cool eh. 

 

We have to stop using coal/oil for generating power in the big power stations.

 

Nuclear power is one way of doing it, I believe France have been doing it for many years, new technologies are being devolved.

 

Sun and wind can also made a lot of energy and stored, used when needed.

Edited January 6, 2021 by guzzi850m2

[sirineou]

16 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I can imagine fuel cell cars in a near future beats electric battery cars. Toyota, and others, already has well working models.

One of the problems with Fuel Cell cars is the availability of hydrogen and the expense of  producing it. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe but because it is highly reactive it is always attached to other elements, mostly   Oxygen making water . 

Renewable energy sources such as wind solar ets have the problem   of storage , when they are overproduced, for when the sun goes down or the wind dies off. One of the storage solutions is to use the access electricity, or electricity produced too far from consumption to break down water through electrolysis  to produce Hydrogen .

So when Hydrogen becomes more readily available Fuel Cell EVs will become more viable, because the have the advantage of charging to full capacity in the same time it take a car to fill with gas. 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by sirineou

[JAS21]

7 hours ago, canthai55 said:

That is possible with a GIANT leap in battery storage.

We are decades away from that.

Solar and wind just do not cut it without that battery storage.

And solar cells and wind production use LOTS of fossil fuel to build, have a shelf life, and then you need to repeat in about 20 years.

Sad as it is - Nuke is the best alternative to fossil fuel.

But try and convince the gov't around the world of this - all of them are linked to Big Oil, who run the world. And Big Oil has no interest in this idea at all - strangely enuf !!!

555

Yeh ... Fukushima  (2011), the Chernobyl  (1986),  Three Mile Island  (1979)  . I suspect that we are not decades away from as you say a Giant leap in battery storage. Non-synchronous generation has it's problems (eg Australia) ... where do we go.

[DekDaeng]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:00 PM, Misab said:

Around the world, Hybrid is on its way out and electric car on its way in. In Norway 33% of all sold private cars are now electric.

According to the Internet: Globally, electric vehicles (EVs) are on the rise. ... By 2036, the Thai government aims to have 690 charging stations and 1.2 million electric vehicles nationwide.

I hope the above is a printing error, and Thailand aim to reach its goal in 2026

 

Norway over 50% - 56% IIRC

[DekDaeng]

10 minutes ago, DekDaeng said:

Norway over 50% - 56% (Announced yesterday -)

BEV, Hybrid, FCEV, Nuclear Power EV - all EV -

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by DekDaeng

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

Yeh ... Fukushima  (2011), the Chernobyl  (1986),  Three Mile Island  (1979)  . I suspect that we are not decades away from as you say a Giant leap in battery storage. Non-synchronous generation has it's problems (eg Australia) ... where do we go.

all these were give to us by energy politics. and the need of fissile materials for the defence industry. 

I know a lot of what i say might not be entirely correct  , but that's the basic gist behind the nuclear power plant problems. 

First the scare tactic that " waste will be around for thousands of years" Yea they would , if the technology did not advance in a thousand years, and if we used breeder reactors. 

There is technology available right now for smaller modular reactors that service smaller areas with diminished capacity for harm. instead of centralized behemoths that that cause the problems you described.

  Thorium reactors(Molten salt reactors )  have a default off position, where in the event of an accident , even if there was no one there at the time, thy turn off. 

" There's a final safety precaution in these reactors as well. At the bottom of the "pot" that holds the molten salt, there's a drain pipe for the salt. Under normal circumstances there is an electric fan that cools and solidifies the salt to create a solid salt plug, keeping the rest of the salt from flowing down the pipe. If electricity were to fail or something else were to go wrong, the fan automatically shuts off. The plug then melts and the molten salt drains down the pipe into large tanks. The heat from the molten salt then gets dissipated throughout the earth while in those tanks through natural convection, a relatively safe way to deal with the problem"

https://interestingengineering.com/how-molten-salt-reactors-could-lead-to-the-next-energy-production-boom

[n00dle]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:37 PM, impulse said:

 

Electric cars were 2.6% of all car sales in 2019.  That was a 40% increase from 2018.  If that growth holds, EV's will exceed your 5% this year.  (If they haven't already...)

 

In 10-15 years, several Euro nations will be all electric on new car sales.  By law.

 

Elon Musk spanked the big auto makers, proving that not only was it possible to build EV's that get acceptable range and performance, people would buy them.  Really woke up the dinosaurs, he did.

 

 

Alas, tesla is the apple of the automotive world, with the ability to make changes to your frim ware, and add or delete features as they see fit.

 

Telsas are even more of a disaster in some ways than the modern combustible engined vehicles.

 

Teslas model despite very effective pr is not for sustainability. Telsa are made to be driven, discarded and purchased new.

 

No outside maintenance, if yor tesla has lost certification, it cannot be fast charged. This makes them useless.

 

You were able to have a repaired tesla recertified at one point for around 12k usd, and they took that money right up until the day they decided, that recertified cars no longer qualified for fast charging and revoked the privelege.

 

Musk Is a genius, but I will wait until he releases a product I could actually own.

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

One of the problems with Fuel Cell cars is the availability of hydrogen and the expense of  producing it. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe but because it is highly reactive it is always attached to other elements, mostly   Oxygen making water . 

Renewable energy sources such as wind solar ets have the problem   of storage , when they are overproduced, for when the sun goes down or the wind dies off. One of the storage solutions is to use the access electricity, or electricity produced too far from consumption to break down water through electrolysis  to produce Hydrogen .

So when Hydrogen becomes more readily available Fuel Cell EVs will become more viable, because the have the advantage of charging to full capacity in the same time it take a car to fill with gas. 

 

The solution for economic production of fuel cells is actually very close, that's why I said "near future", and not talking about now, because it's not yet ready...????

[impulse]

3 hours ago, n00dle said:

No outside maintenance, if yor tesla has lost certification, it cannot be fast charged. This makes them useless.

 

You were able to have a repaired tesla recertified at one point for around 12k usd, and they took that money right up until the day they decided, that recertified cars no longer qualified for fast charging and revoked the privelege.

 

Musk Is a genius, but I will wait until he releases a product I could actually own.

 

Sounds like they took some pages out of the Apple playbook...

 

I don't own one, either.  And it looks like there are some other car companies coming on with stronger electric offerings.  But that's only happening because an upstart noob spanked them and forced them to accelerate development.  If it wasn't for Musk and Tesla, we'd still be looking at "electric vehicles coming out within 20 years"

 

[talahtnut]

It would be most interesting to, one day, solve the mystery of Nicola Tesla's car,

seemingly to work on the planets natural electrical charge, ie free energy, certainly

something the likes of J.P. Morgan would disapprove of. It will always be a matter

of conjecture whether or not he has the plans locked away.

'If you cant put a meter on it I dont want to know.' J.P.M.

 

 

 

[canthai55]

My favorite bit is the quote by John Cadogan on Musk ...

"The Electric Jesus"

And he sure has his followers, blindly believing all the hype he spews.

Him and the "Green" people

https://www.imdb.com/tithttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt12192654

I will sit back, watch it all unfold, and have a good belly laugh !!!

[LNKDES1]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:10 PM, impulse said:

 

The thing that disturbs me is 690 charging stations for 1.2 million electric vehicles.   Imagine the queues.

Owners/renters of electric cars generally have a way to plug in at their homes, therefore usually never needing to charge away from home. 690 charging stations around Thailand does seem a bit sparse though.

[n00dle]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Sounds like they took some pages out of the Apple playbook...

 

I don't own one, either.  And it looks like there are some other car companies coming on with stronger electric offerings.  But that's only happening because an upstart noob spanked them and forced them to accelerate development.  If it wasn't for Musk and Tesla, we'd still be looking at "electric vehicles coming out within 20 years"

 

Agreed,

 

And he is doing the same for solar, not to mention soace travel....

[Rawairat]

I reckon by 2022 there will be electric cars which are acceptable to me, better range up to 500km below B1,500,000 in Thailand. The MG ZS doesn’t  make it, ok for city driving. I don’t see charging stations as a big issue as every house has a power point for overnight charging. Long trips will require planning. 

I was interested in the MG HS PHEV but it seems underpowered with the 1.5l motor, even if you add the electric motors power which is finite. I’m hoping that we can get some of the Chinese built EV’s here and Thai  tariffs are not applied?

 

[KannikaP]

11 hours ago, foreverlomsak said:

MG is not a Chinese car Marque, MG stands for Morris Garages which originated in England a long time ago.

It is Chinese now. We know what it used to stand for, although my 1960 MG A wasn't all that fast or safe.

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, n00dle said:

Agreed,

 

And he is doing the same for solar, not to mention soace travel....

The key to the right of O is P!     LOL

[Yellowtail]

On 1/5/2021 at 9:00 PM, Misab said:

Around the world, Hybrid is on its way out and electric car on its way in. In Norway 33% of all sold private cars are now electric.

According to the Internet: Globally, electric vehicles (EVs) are on the rise. ... By 2036, the Thai government aims to have 690 charging stations and 1.2 million electric vehicles nationwide.

I hope the above is a printing error, and Thailand aim to reach its goal in 2026

 

 

Why do you care what their EV goals are? If you want one, buy one. 

[guzzi850m2]

On 1/7/2021 at 9:17 AM, Rawairat said:

I reckon by 2022 there will be electric cars which are acceptable to me, better range up to 500km below B1,500,000 in Thailand. The MG ZS doesn’t  make it, ok for city driving. I don’t see charging stations as a big issue as every house has a power point for overnight charging. Long trips will require planning. 

I was interested in the MG HS PHEV but it seems underpowered with the 1.5l motor, even if you add the electric motors power which is finite. I’m hoping that we can get some of the Chinese built EV’s here and Thai  tariffs are not applied?

 

It's over 250hp combined and 0-100 in 7.5 sec on the HS PHEV, I wouldn't call that under powered in that price range?

[Henryford]

Once the majority of cars are electric Governments (like the UK) will introduce some sort of electric tax so bang goes any advantage to owning an electric car. They can not afford to lose the billions they get in fuel tax.

[canthai55]

Its a Joke - and a Scam

First Diesel - Now, can not

Now Electric - just wait, history repeats itself

Plus - U think Big Oil will stand for this ?