On 7/31/2021 at 8:57 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Why?

If expelled corona virus can travel as far as they say, on a plane that's probably affecting a dozen or more passengers. So, IMO even a few are going to affect the entire load of passengers.

 

Answer- protect YOURSELF with the correct mask that fully seals, and don't take it off for the entire duration of time on the plane

OR

don't fly.

 

Just don't expect OTHER people to protect you.

Well, the infected person might walk around in the plane, visit the WC. I wonder how well air is recirculated there. It would not be good if they sneezed in the aisle. In the US, masks are required on aircraft, fortunately. If I went an a long flight, I would wear medical goggles.

On 7/30/2021 at 12:49 PM, mikebike said:

Dude. Wearing a mask DOES NOT prevent you from getting covid. It prevents you from spreading your aerosolized gob to others

Keeping distance from people who are not wearing a mask and practicing good hygiene, in particular hand washing, substantially reduces my risk of contracting SARS-Cov2 and getting Covid-19.

 

Wearing a mask in places where it is difficult to keep distance from other people, I have noticed that many people who do not wear a mask instinctively keep distance from me (less so now than earlier in the pandemic)

20 hours ago, placnx said:

Yes, but the mask might catch most of the particles, which could otherwise be propelled several metres in front.

OK, but make sure you don't walk too close beside someone wearing a cheap mask.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:04 AM, placnx said:

Well, the infected person might walk around in the plane, visit the WC. I wonder how well air is recirculated there. It would not be good if they sneezed in the aisle. In the US, masks are required on aircraft, fortunately. If I went an a long flight, I would wear medical goggles.

On a Boing 777 the air is replaced every 3 minutes.

On 7/27/2021 at 10:41 PM, tlandtday said:

really so all the "experts" that have studied the longevity of the virus on many surfaces are all wrong?  do you apply alcohol to your hands when you enter an establishment or return home?  i am not talking about masks but is quite evident that this coronavirus and others such as common flues can be transmitted by touch...

"COVID-19 rarely spreads through surfaces. So why are we still deep cleaning?

The coronavirus behind the pandemic can linger on doorknobs and other surfaces, but these aren’t a major source of infection."

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

On 7/30/2021 at 5:49 PM, mikebike said:

Dude. Wearing a mask DOES NOT prevent you from getting covid. It prevents you from spreading your aerosolized gob to others.

CDC confirms masks also protect the wearer, outlines which ones are most effective

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/cdc-confirms-masks-also-protect-the-wearer-outlines-which-ones-are-most-effective-205819204.html

17 hours ago, placeholder said:

On a Boing 777 the air is replaced every 3 minutes.

Quite a while ago there was a study to simulate the aerosols dispersal of someone coughing unmasked on a generic plane. It was reported in NYT. Anyway, the movement suggested that overhead air nozzles were not turned on. Up until the Delta variant, dispersal on an aircraft was a non-issue for mask wearers. I think that there needs to be tests of aerosol dispersal with factors such as the abovementioned air nozzles to see how long it takes the tagged aerosols to be sucked into the air intakes. As for lavatories, if possible it would be useful to study whether these aerosols hang around in the nooks and crannies. Maybe the space needs to be zapped between visits with ultraviolet light or an ultraviolet air purifier added. I say this because Delta aerosol can infect another person after only a brief exposure. The viral shedding is much greater than previous variants. 

On 7/27/2021 at 8:09 AM, robblok said:

No I dont take any flue shots, im 47 in good health.  Don't see the point. However covid is a different story. 

Good time to get a flu shot.

Similar symptoms to COVID-19.

If they put you in an overflow hospital its going to put a world of hurt in your wallet.

 

One night in Udon Thani with COVID-19 symptoms for our child including haz mat suits and a negative pressure room.  13,000 just for the disposable suits.

58,000 baht total.

 

Luckily he just had a bacterial bronchitis.

Shocking though, thats a nice holiday.

 

Off course these are personal options.

I decided to have flu vaccines for the entire family and cousins who visit most.

 

 

How many people have died after taking covid vaccines in the USA? Why isn't there a daily tally on these deaths?

Yet the FDA still has not approved any of the currently available COVID vaccines for use.

You would think that if a non FDA approved drug is being given to millions they would do a meticulous accounting of deaths directly related to taking the vaccine.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/why-the-fda-hasnt-approved-a-covid-shot-yet-when-millions-are-vaccinated/ar-AAMQIaZ?ocid=uxbndlbing

 

 

33 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thanks for sharing with us the claims of a cr*p website. That article you linked to gives itself away in the very title:Like VAERS the EU database records "adverse events" not "adverse reactions". Just because an event follows the vaccination does not mean it was caused by the vaccination.

555...classic over reaction as if there are no vac related deaths what so ever

 

In any case you can go to the Euro VAERS site & check data & yes there have been deaths reported

But as you said & so did I just because they died after vac does not mean vac caused it yada yada yada

 

Yet the opposite defense is always used to claim covid caused deaths

You internet doctors are funny

 

All else aside yes as I said Vaccines are doing well & reducing symptoms...It is to be expected after Billions

are vaccinated some will in fact die from it...

 

Here is another site for you but if it is not to your liking just go get the data yourself instead of trolling about

 

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/european-agency-confirms-covid-19-vaccine-fatalities

 

Quote

As of July 4, 2021, the EMA issued safety updates and related deaths for the four authorized COVID-19 vaccines; Comirnaty, Spikevax; Vaxzevria, and COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen.

 

9 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Yet the FDA still has not approved any of the currently available COVID vaccines for use.

You would think that if a non FDA approved drug is being given to millions they would do a meticulous accounting of deaths directly related to taking the vaccine.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/why-the-fda-hasnt-approved-a-covid-shot-yet-when-millions-are-vaccinated/ar-AAMQIaZ?ocid=uxbndlbing

 

 

What makes you think they're not doing a meticulous accounting? it's not that difficult to do a statistical analysis of deaths following vaccination. In fact, that's what the FDA has been doing all along. And not just for the covid vaccines. But vaccines and other medications. Repeatedly their analysis shows that the number of lives saved by the covid vaccines far outweighs the number of deaths caused by the vaccines. What is so difficult to understand about this. To gain a better understaning you should consider reading the article that you linked to.

1 minute ago, meechai said:

555...classic over reaction as if there are no vac related deaths what so ever

 

In any case you can go to the Euro VAERS site & check data & yes there have been deaths reported

But as you said & so did I just because they died after vac does not mean vac caused it yada yada yada

 

Yet the opposite defense is always used to claim covid caused deaths

You internet doctors are funny

 

All else aside yes as I said Vaccines are doing well & reducing symptoms...It is to be expected after Billions

are vaccinated some will in fact die from it...

 

Here is another site for you but if it is not to your liking just go get the data yourself instead of trolling about

 

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/european-agency-confirms-covid-19-vaccine-fatalities

 

 

As I pointed out, the cr*p website you linked to claims that these 15,000+ deaths are due to "adverse reactions".That is false. Why did you link to such an obviously faulty source?

And most medications will have some unfortunate side effects, including causing death. Not just vaccines. So what's your point? Who is denying that the covid vaccines have very rarely caused deaths? 

11 minutes ago, meechai said:

555...classic over reaction as if there are no vac related deaths what so ever

 

In any case you can go to the Euro VAERS site & check data & yes there have been deaths reported

But as you said & so did I just because they died after vac does not mean vac caused it yada yada yada

 

Yet the opposite defense is always used to claim covid caused deaths

You internet doctors are funny

 

All else aside yes as I said Vaccines are doing well & reducing symptoms...It is to be expected after Billions

are vaccinated some will in fact die from it...

 

Here is another site for you but if it is not to your liking just go get the data yourself instead of trolling about

 

https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/european-agency-confirms-covid-19-vaccine-fatalities

 

 

Once again, you don't seem to understand the difference between adverse events and adverse reactions. What is being reported in this article are adverse events. Scrutinize this paragraph from the article 

"Comirnaty (Pfizer-BioNTech) - A total of 206,668 cases of suspected side effects with Comirnaty were spontaneously reported to EudraVigilance from EU/EEA countries. And 3,848 of these reported a fatal outcome. As a result, about 276 million doses of Comirnaty were given to people in the EU/EEA."

This is just about the reports coming in from caregivers, patients, doctors, and other health care workers. No infernces are made about causality.

59 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What makes you think they're not doing a meticulous accounting? it's not that difficult to do a statistical analysis of deaths following vaccination. In fact, that's what the FDA has been doing all along. And not just for the covid vaccines. But vaccines and other medications. Repeatedly their analysis shows that the number of lives saved by the covid vaccines far outweighs the number of deaths caused by the vaccines. What is so difficult to understand about this. To gain a better understaning you should consider reading the article that you linked to.

My point being covid death numbers are in your face daily in the news, everyday deaths by region are posted whereas you have to dig to find numbers related to vaccine deaths. What is so hard to understand?

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

My point being covid death numbers are in your face daily in the news, everyday deaths by region are posted whereas you have to dig to find numbers related to vaccine deaths. What is so hard to understand?

Exactly. Without statistics on vaccine deaths, whether known or probable, how can say, a 35 y.o. woman, make an informed decision. Could be chance of death in her age group unvaccinated is .00005%, but death from vaccination .00005.5%. Who knows? But regardless if she dies, she should vaccinate to protect the tribe. This, even though the vaccines may limit, but do not prevent the spread of covid.

On 7/27/2021 at 9:24 PM, placeholder said:

All vaccines were once experimental substances. Darwin seems to have been very negligent in taking care of people who have been vaccinated with those.

All previous experimental vaccines were time-tested (between 4-8 years) and animal-tested, with only around 5% eventually making to the market.

 

But within 6 months of a novel coronavirus (none of which has never been eradicated by vaccination), we have a range of previously unavailable (and unsuccessful) m-RNA vaccines which introduce spike proteins into cells, and are introduced (and mandated) world-wide?

If they actually do work safely, great. I'll get mine tomorrow. Just seems a tad,.. reckless?

2 minutes ago, huangnon said:

All previous experimental vaccines were time-tested (between 4-8 years) and animal-tested, with only around 5% eventually making to the market.

 

But within 6 months of a novel coronavirus (none of which has never been eradicated by vaccination), we have a range of m-RNA vaccines which introduce spike proteins into cells, and are introduced (and mandated) world-wide?

If they actually do work, great. I'll get mine tomorrow. Just seems a tad,.. reckless?

What makes you think that the vaccines weren't animal tested? At least those that were created in the West? The fact that you even cite such easily disprovable nonsense (it took me less than a minute to find the evidence) is a very clear indication of where you really stand on the issue.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9792931264

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/20/fact-check-pfizer-moderna-j-j-tested-covid-19-vaccines-animals/5162426001/

No one has suggested a plausible mechanism by which the mRNA or adenovirus vector vaccines could have long term effects. And they have a longer history of use than you believe.

https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/are-there-long-term-side-effects-caused-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-how-do-we-know

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

What makes you think that the vaccines weren't animal tested? At least those that were created in the West? The fact that you even cite such easily disprovable nonsense (it took me less than a minute to find the evidence) is a very clear indication of where you really stand on the issue.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9792931264

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/05/20/fact-check-pfizer-moderna-j-j-tested-covid-19-vaccines-animals/5162426001/

No one has suggested a plausible mechanism by which the mRNA or adenovirus vector vaccines could have long term effects. And they have a longer history of use than you believe.

https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/are-there-long-term-side-effects-caused-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-how-do-we-know

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7956899/

Last year's mainstream news informing the public that Covid vaccine testing had mostly skipped animal trials has now been replaced by legions of "fact-checking" sites that now deny this:

Quote

But when it comes to a new coronavirus vaccine, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is finally heeding PETA’s call—according to BBC News, the agency isn’t waiting for the typical, lengthy animal-testing phase and is instead heading straight for human trials. While this won’t stop all tests on animals for the vaccine, it should pave the way for safe straight-to-human vaccine trials from now on.

Why would they do that?

2 minutes ago, huangnon said:

Last year's mainstream news informing the public that Covid vaccine testing had mostly skipped animal trials has now been replaced by legions of "fact-checking" sites that now deny this:

Why would they do that?

Your link to that BBC article made no reference at all to animal testing. So where's your evidence?

All aboard the SS Covid.

 

 

I'll just leave this here for the deniers ????

 

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-fit-and-healthy-man-42-killed-by-coronavirus-regretted-refusing-vaccine-as-sister-issues-misinformation-warning-12373389

Of course I will never vaccinate except if forced to !!!

Who else not totally insane will let anybody inject what he doesn't need ?!

 

 

1 hour ago, thairastawoman said:

Of course I will never vaccinate except if forced to !!!

Who else not totally insane will let anybody inject what he doesn't need ?!

 

 

Who else but the totally uncomprehending would would ever post something like this?

21 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

My point being covid death numbers are in your face daily in the news, everyday deaths by region are posted whereas you have to dig to find numbers related to vaccine deaths. What is so hard to understand?

I think that many COVID deaths are occurring in the hospitals where there is a certain amount of clarity about what is happening to the patient. There is a chart with test results and vital signs over time of hospitalization. A cause of death can be reasonably determined.

 

The vaccine adverse event reporting system allows anybody to report anything. 

Apart from that, if a person walks into the clinic gets a vaccination and walks out and then dies within  a short period of time, there is very little info about what happened.

 

I read one anecdote, a family was claiming the vaccine must have killed their elderly family member. 

"He was fine." Turns out he had multiple chronic diseases and a very low level of function, basically he could still walk around the house. So he was fine.

 

The vaccines (of all types) have been given to over a billion people now.

What is the background death rate of a billion people selected at random?

 

Also, I think that the repeated plaintive cry that the vaccines have only bee approved for emergency use, although true is not very meaningful. Vaccines that have been given to millions of people under emergency use, now have more data on effectiveness and risk of adverse effects than any medication or drug has before it is fully approved for use. Have you heard of any clinical trials with a million subjects?

 

Millions of data points for establishing safety and effectiveness.

I know, even still, they are only approved for emergency use.

On 7/27/2021 at 5:32 AM, Why Me said:

Excellent! If science can't convince the birdbrains peer pressure just might.   ...

Something like this?

 

On 7/26/2021 at 8:41 AM, Jingthing said:

Masks aren't as effective as the OP thinks, especially with Delta. It's not a matter of IF you're going to get infected, but more like WHEN. 

Do I think Thai immigration will mandate vaccines for expats? 

I don't know.

But I think that when the vaccines become as easily accessed as in the U.S., perhaps they should!

I am not sure that delta is all that different with respect to mask effectiveness.

It is true that delta is far more easily spread, no argument.

But the effectiveness of masks is a function of their ability to stop droplets and aerosols is it not?

The viruses are not strolling around on their own.

As I said, I am not sure. Unlike some here who exhibit the "unshakeable certainty of the half-educated".

(Phrase stolen from the New York Times Book Review, author unknown).

On 7/26/2021 at 8:41 AM, Jingthing said:

Masks aren't as effective as the OP thinks, especially with Delta. It's not a matter of IF you're going to get infected, but more like WHEN. 

Do I think Thai immigration will mandate vaccines for expats? 

I don't know.

But I think that when the vaccines become as easily accessed as in the U.S., perhaps they should!

I am not sure that delta is all that different with respect to mask effectiveness.

It is true that delta is far more easily spread, no argument.

But the effectiveness of masks is a function of their ability to stop droplets and aerosols is it not?

The viruses are not strolling around on their own.

As I said, I am not sure. Unlike some here who exhibit the "unshakeable certainty of the half-educated".

(Phrase stolen from the New York Times Book Review, author unknown).

17 hours ago, placeholder said:

Your link to that BBC article made no reference at all to animal testing. So where's your evidence?

Check out any of last year's (2020) news:

Quote

Coronavirus vaccines in human trials now 

On March 16, just two months after the new coronavirus was first identified in Wuhan, China, the first vaccine, developed by US company Moderna and funded by the U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH), started to be tested in various doses in 45 healthy volunteers. 

Given the urgency of the pandemic, Moderna has been allowed to skip the animal testing step, for now, and go straight to clinical trials. Testing in mice is still happening in parallel, which is unusual as vaccines normally need to be shown to work in animals before testing on people. They were able to develop the vaccine at lightning speed in part because unlike most existing vaccines, they aren’t using a weakened or killed version of the virus – they are using messenger RNA (or mRNA) based on the genetic code for the virus that Chinese researchers sequenced and made freely available. 

Source: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-clinical-vaccine-trials-are-speeding-pandemic

 

Just skip past the usual 5 pages of revisionist "FactCheck" propaganda on google. Plenty of sources.

6 minutes ago, huangnon said:

Check out any of last year's (2020) news:

Source: https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/how-clinical-vaccine-trials-are-speeding-pandemic

 

Just skip past the usual 5 pages of revisionist "FactCheck" propaganda on google. Plenty of sources.

It says quite explicitly that testing was done in parallel. So your claim that animal testing wasn't done is false.