AstraZeneca-Pfizer vaccine mix to be employed from October

[Jonathan Fairfield]

 

BANGKOK (NNT) - The committee handling emergency vaccination doses and sites, has decided that Thailand will begin mixing AstraZeneca and Pfizer doses starting in October.

 

Deputy Director-General of the Department of Disease Control (DDC) Dr. Sophon Iamsirithavorn has advised that the Kingdom’s current mixed vaccination approach uses Sinovac for the first dose and AstraZeneca as the second after a 3-4 week waiting period. The mix is currently the main vaccination plan for people above the age of 18.

 

A second practice using AstraZeneca as the first dose and Pfizer as the second dose with 4-12 weeks separation, is to become widespread starting in October once more Pfizer vaccine arrives. The country is slated to receive 10 million Pfizer doses during the final three months of this year.

 

A third approach, where two doses of Sinovac are boosted by a third dose of AstraZeneca after four weeks is also to be utilized.

 

The committee responsible was advised on its approach by a body studying immunity this past August 25, in which academic research from both Thailand and other nations was presented.

 

In addition, unvaccinated people who recovered from COVID-19 are to receive an immunity boosting shot of either AstraZeneca or Pfizer 1-3 months after recovery.

 

Dr. Sophon indicated that 12 million doses of Sinovac will arrive within the month followed by another 6 million doses in October, marking the end of orders. The supply will be used in the mixed approach until the end of the year. It was explained that no more orders would be placed for Sinovac until a newer generation able to cope with the virus’ latest strains is developed. However, orders may continue if research shows the jab can be used with children.

 

Addressing concerns that a booster shot poses the risk of cancer, the doctor explained the warning is only a general caution as the treatment has yet to receive extensive research. He acknowledged however, that the third vaccination shot could impact a person’s immune system.

 

-- © Copyright NNT 2021-09-05

 

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[Scrotobike]

Yea gods - more mix and matching!

 

"Dr. Sophon indicated that 12 million doses of Sinovac will arrive within the month followed by another 6 million doses in October, marking the end of orders" - 18 million of  ******. This is the only reason why they are mixing - to remove this as they do not want to cancel it as it is tied in with an order of very excellent self stuffing brown envelopes manufactured in China.

[tonray]

12 minutes ago, Scrotobike said:

This is the only reason why they are mixing

Not correct as the article stated they would be mixing Astra first shots with Pfizer second shots also

[Scrotobike]

5 minutes ago, tonray said:

Not correct as the article stated they would be mixing Astra first shots with Pfizer second shots also

So what - I can still comment on the reported import of the CCP stuff and its intended "use" - please read the article as they report importing a HUGE amount of waste from the CCP.

[Henryford]

Can anyone reference for me the scientific papers where they have tested the effect of mixing different vaccines?

[TooMuchTime]

1 minute ago, Henryford said:

Can anyone reference for me the scientific papers where they have tested the effect of mixing different vaccines?

Thai doctor guy said it is ok.  Trust the science.

[mtls2005]

It's so good (sinovac + AZ) we're going to stop it as of the end of October.

 

Huh?

 

I think he listed just about every combination possible?

 

Oy vey. Plan-du-jour remains the plan.

 

 

[Trujillo]

I know a man who has had 4 shots of variously available vaccines here in Chiang Mai. I'm not sure if this is sound reasoning but then, perhaps he's taken the "common sense" message about adding masks for added protection. More is better. 

Is this a common practice in other countries (Western countries)? I have no idea. 

I'm not at all sure about mixing medicines/doses. I'm trying to think of other situations and medicines that we do this with. Do we do this with seasonal influenza? I don't know; I've never had a flu shot (and incidentally, have not had the flu for at least two decades). 

This is just my opinion and I have no links to offer pro or con. 

By the way, I'm not sure this fellow I mention is finished loading up on vaccine injections. Now with this buzz about boosters, I will have to ask him and report back. 

[mtls2005]

9 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I'm not at all sure about mixing medicines/doses. I'm trying to think of other situations and medicines that we do this with.

Hundreds of medical conditions are treated with a combination of drugs.

 

 

~ 600,000 Thais here have had three shots, presumably sinovac 2x + Pfizer 1x.

 

10 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I will have to ask him and report back. 

Unless he's a Doctor maybe take his advice/experience with a salt-lick? I mean he's just one, single person, right?

 

 

[Karma80]

Why not just come out and say - we're gonna vaccinate people with whatever we have to hand at the time. It's ok, you're probably safe, we googled it. We have a bucket load of Sinovac we need to use and need to make our numbers look better on paper.

[ezzra]

I'm lining up a 3rd shot in October/November as a  booster to add to my 2 AZ i got in Oz back in May from a friend who booked and paid for 2 Moderna shots at large hospital in Bkk and doesn't need them now even though the judges are still out on the need for the booster shot...

Edited September 5, 2021 by ezzra

[Bkk Brian]

54 minutes ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

The supply will be used in the mixed approach until the end of the year. It was explained that no more orders would be placed for Sinovac until a newer generation able to cope with the virus’ latest strains is developed. However, orders may continue if research shows the jab can be used with children.

The good news being that Sinovac will no longer be needed as there seems to be plenty of the other brands available from Oct.

 

For children I note that the UK scientists are currently advising against administering covid vaccinations for children 12 - 15 years due to the minimal risk to benefit ratio although thats with Pifzer. 

[brucec64]

20 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Can anyone reference for me the scientific papers where they have tested the effect of mixing different vaccines?

Sure, let me Google that for you....

[sanuk711]

 

43 minutes ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

BANGKOK (NNT) - The committee handling emergency vaccination doses and sites, has decided that Thailand will begin mixing AstraZeneca and Pfizer doses starting in October.

From everything I have read this seems to be the best idea**--- but Where are they suddenly -getting all the Pfizer from, I know America donated a Million shots, but for everyone to get this mixed dose --haven't heard an announcement of a big buy of Pfizer on the news.

 

**-Please don't ask me to do to searching for you---there are that so many sites on internet recommending it.

Just look--but if you do find a site that says it is bad--(I haven't found one) please post it.

 

“Mixing vaccine platforms —a method known as heterologous prime boost—

has a long history in immunology as being far superior to multiple doses of the same vaccine,”

says Ross Kedl, an immunologist at the University of Colorado Anschutz School of Medicine.
The gist is this: Different types of vaccines boost the immune system in different ways,

so multiple vaccines provide broader coverage. 

[BE88]

30 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Can anyone reference for me the scientific papers where they have tested the effect of mixing different vaccines?

Thailand next year.

[stupidfarang]

What concerns me is it is AstraZeneca vaccine is a viral vector vaccine and Moderna is a mRNA vaccine so I would like to know if it is safe to mix the two differnat types.

[Trujillo]

"Hundreds of medical conditions are treated with a combination of drugs."

 

I think there might be a difference, say, between taking Advil and aspirin for pain relief versus taking various injected vaccines, but what do I know? 

...and yes, I said, this was one individual. 

 

Isn't there some controversy now in the USA about whether boosters should be advised? 

 

I do think this line is interesting, from MSN News: Biden's controversial Covid-19 vaccine booster plan: (bold added)

 

"...some experts say booster shots are unlikely to alter the trajectory of the pandemic much — and that the doses would be much better spent getting people around the world immunized with first and second shots."

 

 I tend to agree with this, particularly when we are talking about inoculating young people ahead of elderly folks who are actually at some increased/meaningful risk. 

[petermik]

6 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

What concerns me is it is AstraZeneca vaccine is a viral vector vaccine and Moderna is a mRNA vaccine so I would like to know if it is safe to mix the two differnat types.

Safe? of course it’s safe otherwise they would not contemplate doing it.........55555

[Neeranam]

57 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Can anyone reference for me the scientific papers where they have tested the effect of mixing different vaccines?

Can you refer any papers that say this is not effective or unsafe?

[Neeranam]

24 minutes ago, stupidfarang said:

What concerns me is it is AstraZeneca vaccine is a viral vector vaccine and Moderna is a mRNA vaccine so I would like to know if it is safe to mix the two differnat types.

What is the difference?

[tonray]

33 minutes ago, stupidfarang said:

What concerns me is it is AstraZeneca vaccine is a viral vector vaccine and Moderna is a mRNA vaccine so I would like to know if it is safe to mix the two differnat types.

They are not really mixing two vaccines. Each vaccine independently promotes a seperate immune system response and prepares your body to defend against Covid-19 should you become infected. By the time the second dose is adminstered, not only has the first vaccine and all traces of it long disappeared from your system, the immune response has also waned, which of course is the reason for the second shot requirement. Think of childhood vaccinations, kids are jabbed with 10 or more recommended vaccines between 1 year and 18 years old, they are not mixing different vaccines....think of each one as an independent dose.

[jaltsc]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Can anyone reference for me the scientific papers where they have tested the effect of mixing different vaccines?

We don't need no stinkin' scientific papers.  

Can anyone reference any kind of scientific evidence that the "education system" actually educates the students? They are programmed to obey, not to question, and to follow the herd. So, they will believe whatever they are told by authoritative figures. Even if the results are catastrophic.  

Edited September 5, 2021 by jaltsc

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, tonray said:

By the time the second dose is adminstered, not only has the first vaccine and all traces of it long disappeared from your system, the immune response has also waned, which of course is the reason for the second shot requirement.

So we will need continual vaccines until Covid disappears?

I got Sinovac last week, get Astra in 2 weeks and thinking about Moderna in 1 month. Maybe I should wait for 2 months to be safe? 

[Emdog]

Plaids and stripes: a fashion no no...

As far as mixing drugs, for HIV they talk about a "cocktail" of drugs aka more than one type in a dose.

I'm due to get second shot of AZ Oct 22. If I can get a shot of Pfizer before then, I'll probably go with that. Combo platter. With 3 you get egg roll

[tonray]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So we will need continual vaccines until Covid disappears?

I got Sinovac last week, get Astra in 2 weeks and thinking about Moderna in 1 month. Maybe I should wait for 2 months to be safe? 

I don't think anyone knows yet how long the immunity will last since we have not had a long enough period yet to test for long term immunity. But many things for example Tetanus rquire a booster at time where you think you may have stepped on a nail and incurred risk of infection. The one thing for sure is the longer the virus ciculates, the higher the probability of more variants coming into play that 'might' require more vaccines.

[TooMuchTime]

18 minutes ago, tonray said:

I don't think anyone knows yet how long the immunity will last since we have not had a long enough period yet to test for long term immunity. But many things for example Tetanus rquire a booster at time where you think you may have stepped on a nail and incurred risk of infection. The one thing for sure is the longer the virus ciculates, the higher the probability of more variants coming into play that 'might' require more vaccines.

With covid vaccines they are thinking of boosters in terms of months while tetanus is 10 years.  Quite a difference.

[smedly]

Thailand is playing fast and loose with this mixing, I would not see a problem with it if it was properly studied for safety and efficacy but it isn't.

 

The primary reason for doing it has nothing to do with best practise - is to cover up the governments obvious failure with vaccine procurement and to save their ####, no other reason.

 

These vaccines are dangerous enough without these unproven cocktails and the fact that they have their own associated risks seems to me to mean you are being exposed to the risks from each brand plus an as yet unknown risk of mixing.

 

None of this has been properly studied 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Can anyone reference for me the scientific papers where they have tested the effect of mixing different vaccines?

exactly

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, TooMuchTime said:

With covid vaccines they are thinking of boosters in terms of months while tetanus is 10 years.  Quite a difference.

Actually the initial "Boosters" are given at a much more frequent schedule:

 

The World Health Organization (WHO) recommends six doses in childhood starting at six weeks of age.^[2] Four doses of DTaP are to be given in early childhood.^[14] The first dose should be around two months of age, the second at four months, the third at six, and the fourth from fifteen to eighteen months of age. There is a recommended fifth dose to be administered to four- to six-year-olds.^[14]

Td and Tdap are for older children, adolescents, and adults and can be injected into the deltoid muscle.^[14] These are boosters and are recommended every ten years. It is safe to have shorter intervals between a single dose of Tdap and a dose of the Td booster.^[21]

[smedly]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

Hundreds of medical conditions are treated with a combination of drugs.

before drugs are approved for combination therapy they are tested extensively 

 

There are combinations that are dangerous to mix - they find this out through testing - these vaccines are already extremely suspect to begin with and now they are mixing them - seriously