British biker, 83, is killed in a horror crash in Thailand after car pulls out in front of him

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, Dellboy218 said:

Looks more like an Adventure style bike to me..  very few racing style bikes around these days.

Ok, wonder how many is going to point on that. I simply mean that it's a too big and fast bike for such old person. Better?

[Gottfrid]

4 hours ago, Seismic said:

Clearly you know very little about bikes. That is not a 'race' bike, but what we call an 'adventure' bike and they are not designed for speed. As we cannot see his helmet, I am also curious about your phrase 'Race Helmet' what exactly is a race helmet? and how does that affect the story, other than he was responsible enough to be actually wearing a helmet.

More about the race bike phrase. Please read my quote above. Enough of that.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the USA, if you read end a car you're always at fault even if the car put a sudden break in the middle of the road unless the front car has broken tail lights or the front driver driving drunk. 

But we are not in the USA and the USA traffic rules do NOT apply in Thailand, Just another meaningless diversionary post.

 

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its not a ‘race bike’ looks more like a CB 500 or something similar, comfortable to get around. 

The age thing is something many of us will face... the difficult of knowing when to stop riding. 

That said, I’m not sure age would have made a difference here...  when a car pulls out, options are limited. 

 

 

 

I am 78 and gave up biking 3 years ago.

 

My reactions are a lot slower than they were and I know that if I dropped the bike (a Honda Phantom 200cc) I know that I could not pick it up on my own.

[AlexO]

32 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

They are here, without a shadow of a doubt 

Have to agree, the women are by far the worst drivers, seem to be in a dreamland when driving. The higher death ratio for men is probably due to women do not consumed the amount of Lao Khow that men do. I have seen guys hardly able to walk get on on bike and then attempt to drive home. The bike the poor British lad was driving does not appear to be badly damaged so it looks as if he breaking, but does not need much to get airborne in a bike accident. RIP

[Excel]

2 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

nd NO! It is not hard to know  when to stop riding. No one over 70 - 75 years should be riding anything more than a car or a scooter to and back from doing necessary things.

And I would also say no one under 70 should be doing so either.  But we can all make absolutely stupid comments can't we ? just like yours.

[Gottfrid]

2 minutes ago, Excel said:

And I would also say no one under 70 should be doing so either.  But we can all make absolutely stupid comments can't we ? just like yours.

Why would you say that? Is that because at the age between 70 - 75 many people really feel that they are losing reactions and concentration from younger age?

What is stupid? Is taking necessary precautions to stay alive stupid?

Please answer YES on both questions. That way we really know where stupid resides this time.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Gottfrid said:

Why would you say that? Is that because at the age between 70 - 75 many people really feel that they are losing reactions and concentration from younger age?

What is stupid? Is taking necessary precautions to stay alive stupid?

Please answer YES on both questions. That way we really know where stupid resides this time.

Oh dear, blown your dummy out have you ? because that's the age you appear with your stupid remarks. Now hurray back to your Mummy, must be time for your lunchtime feed.  In the meantime join my ignore list bye bye

[Guderian]

5 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Car is your best friend on Thai roads.

I'm thinking of upgrading to a cement truck, lol!

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

I’m 71 years young my Honda motor bike is now consigned to the garage and has been for a couple of years my mode of transport these days is a car far safer on Thai roads over the years I have had a couple of near misses on the bike non my fault mainly drunk Thais who have been drinking the cheap Thai whiskey from morning to night . RIP Keith I pray that it was a very quick ending and you did not suffer ????????????????????

Smart move... 

 

There is another facet to riding vs age....  When we age we break a lot more easily.

 

A small bump and roll in our 20’s is a broken shoulder, broken arm and broken hip when we are 70.

Grazes and cuts take longer to heal as our bodes lose their regenerative efficiency... 

 

Its not just about reactions, but about recovery from what would otherwise be a very minor bump (if a minor bump were to happen). 

 

Thats something I hope the invincible pensioners are considering...  Good luck out there. 

[Alcat]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

An 83 year old doesn't have the quickest of reflexes no matter what you have done before when younger. So you need to adjust to the current reflexes.

Tell that to my Wing Chun and Tai Chi master and see what happens next !  He is 95.

[FritsSikkink]

10 minutes ago, Alcat said:

Tell that to my Wing Chun and Tai Chi master and see what happens next !  He is 95.

He will be much slower then when younger.

[Boomer6969]

6 hours ago, RandiRona said:

I would argue that for a 83 year old everything is a sudden or surprising event. Car is your best friend on Thai roads.

To assert this you must be over 83, and still able to remember..

[Classic Ray]

1 hour ago, crazykopite said:

I’m 71 years young my Honda motor bike is now consigned to the garage and has been for a couple of years my mode of transport these days is a car far safer on Thai roads over the years I have had a couple of near misses on the bike non my fault mainly drunk Thais who have been drinking the cheap Thai whiskey from morning to night . RIP Keith I pray that it was a very quick ending and you did not suffer ????????????????????

I’m same age as you, had 40 years collision free motorcycling in U.K., but after third non-fault one in Chiang Mai in six months (one drunk rider rear ended, one songtaew sudden lane change, one unlicensed woman on wrong side of road broke my wrist)  decided to stick to Wave for short trips to 7/11, otherwise car. I once did a road trip with Keith, very skilled rider, RIP.

 

Wonder if Chinese woman looked the wrong way as they drive on the right in China.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Classic Ray

[Lemsta69]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Very sad.

 

I saw the video and the car pulled out from the side street onto the main road and immediately moved into the overtaking lane, possibly to U turn further up the road, and the bike went up the back of it.

 

The rider didn't look to be speeding. It was a bit curious that whilst he clearly didn't have enough time to stop, he did appear to have enough time to move into a different lane to avoid the collision but he stayed on the same lane. It looked like he could have gone to the left or the right of the car to avoid it. Maybe he thought there was something coming from behind in those lanes? Or maybe he had target fixation.  

 

Anyway, the driver was at fault IMO. She could have pulled out and stayed in the left hand lane and it would have been fine. RIP Keith.

maybe he suffered from the farang affliction whereby they think they own the road because they got their license in a "first world country" and that they're automatically better than Thai motorists.  

 

I've experienced this in Pattaya walking up and down the Cow. Thai bike riders will give you a bit of space, even moving wide if they can. they also seem to be aware that you're there. 

 

feral ferrang motorbike riders will hold their line when if that means their handlebars almost scrape your arm. they also seem to stare straight ahead and not be aware of their surroundings. 

 

some of them get so close that I've been tempted a few times to push them off their bikes. I've shouted at a few of them and if they hear it over the noise of their little fart-machines they seem awfully surprised ????

[San Fran Dan]

I’ve been driving all over Thailand lately not one person looks before entering Bikes also 

[thailand49]

R. I. P.   I salute the guy 83, doing what he love. 

I'm 70, still practicing martial art,  jogging 3 K 5 times a week,  playing BB with guys in their twenties my best transports I feel here in Thailand although I have 3 cars my PCX is my main choice no matter how train one might be defensively you can't beat stupidity! 

 

 

[wensiensheng]

3 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

There are no side roads on motorways, only slip roads.

 

RIP to the man, its a dangerous business riding motorbikes in this place.  

 

I have one more controversial comment to make  and that is that the standard of driving by female drivers here is appallingly bad.  The men are bad enough, the women are far worse. 

You are referring to CHINESE women? Or just women in general?

[Mangkhut]

5 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

No, it's not true! There are rules for how to deal with different situations. If you are on a main road, the drivers from the side roads have to stop and look. If you are on a crossing with roads considered same value, all have to stop, behind the line if existing, and look for free passage. If there is no line, then you have to make up one in your mind. After that you have traffic lights or a turn coming from the left hand side to watch out for.

However, RIP Keith! Nobody should need to go like that, doing what they love. Regarding 83 year old, and still driving a race bike with a race helmet, that is to me somewhat irresponsible to himself. At that age, you will no longer have the necessary reflexes, even if you think you have. We do not know who is at fault really, even if the news sounds like siding with the biker.

 

My believe, is also that the woman driving the car went out without looking. The problem, though, was the old bike racer speeding so that is the main reason for not have the possibility to react or brake in time? There is actually a clause in the driving law, that states you should use caution, which also means you should have time to give the people who happens to do wrong free passage if possible. That, is only possible if not speeding.

Race bike? A Honda CB500X which is the bikemodel in the photo is 500 cc bike with around 47 HP and can not in any circumstances be counted as a «race bike». And «race helmet» - first of all what is a «race helmet»? And secondly - where do you see the socalled «race helmet»? If there is anything called a «race helmet» my guess that would be that of that this helmet model must be the best and most developed and secure helmet type ever! As its made for motorbike races…

[vandeventer]

5 hours ago, carvets said:

I don't know for sure what the Thai law is for pulling out from a side street , but it was explained to me years ago that Thais believe if you are on the main road then it's your responsibility to avoid vehicles pulling out from side streets as you have a better view of what's happening . I don't know if this is true but it terrifies me to think it's possible . Very sad for the 83 yo involved . 

Well some drivers think they have the right of way coming out of Makro's on to the main road as I have had a few near misses. Thais seem to change when they drive, like some kind of evil possession has take hold on them. Sad to see a older bike rider go, I am sure you will be missed.

[xr399]

6 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

RIP Keith.. Nice guy with decades of ride experience.. 

Theres a certain level of basic road user ignorance that no amount of defensive driving can avoid. 

I've had at least one 1000 cc sport or sport touring bike here since retiring here in 2008.  I'm 75 now been the full length and breadth of Thailand on them as well as Kuala Lumpur with wife pillion.  I've also done 5 laps of I.O.M. in 2001.  Seen almost all the idiotic driving on exhibit here, had some close shaves, but fortunately have been able to use motocross, flat track, road racing and ice racing skills to avoid 'contact'.  Yes, the roads here are as dangerous as they get, and the one situation that you can not avoid may be just around the next corner.   RIP Keith

[xr399]

24 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

maybe he suffered from the farang affliction whereby they think they own the road because they got their license in a "first world country" and that they're automatically better than Thai motorists.  

 

I've experienced this in Pattaya walking up and down the Cow. Thai bike riders will give you a bit of space, even moving wide if they can. they also seem to be aware that you're there. 

 

feral ferrang motorbike riders will hold their line when if that means their handlebars almost scrape your arm. they also seem to stare straight ahead and not be aware of their surroundings. 

 

some of them get so close that I've been tempted a few times to push them off their bikes. I've shouted at a few of them and if they hear it over the noise of their little fart-machines they seem awfully surprised ????

Would say most of the 'feral farangs' you mention are 2 week millionaires that have never ridden a motorcycle before and most likely have a few libations under their bare bellies.  All the ex-pats I associate with here are very cautious and also wear full protective riding gear while on their machines.

[Dellboy218]

1 hour ago, Gottfrid said:

Ok, wonder how many is going to point on that. I simply mean that it's a too big and fast bike for such old person. Better?

Nope, you are digging a bigger hole for yourself.  It's a CB500X, not a fast bike, a very practical bike.   You never mentioned the car.  Too big and powerful for the driver?

Edited June 14, 2022 by Dellboy218

[xr399]

Just now, Dellboy218 said:

Nope, you are digging a bigger hole for yourself.  It's a CB500X, not a fast bike, a very practical bike. 

Boring bike.... ????

[Harveyboy]

6 hours ago, RandiRona said:

I would argue that for a 83 year old everything is a sudden or surprising event. Car is your best friend on Thai roads.

did i miss something here it said motorbike on motorway.? i thought bikes were not allowed on motorways.  

RIP mate very sad 

[cardinalblue]

A very common practice here is car drivers go from a side street standing still to going to the fast lane (that can be crossing 1 or 2 slower lanes) because one they have a u-turn to make down the road or just want to be in the fast lane (prefer driving faster than the average traffic)

 

This behavioral problem is not following the proper rules of merging on-off major roads or any roads...One sees this all the time - follow how to merge into traffic or into the average speed of that road...people drive as individuals not part of a system which dictates how one should drive/handle each situation. 

[FriendlyFarang]

6 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

However, RIP Keith! Nobody should need to go like that, doing what they love. Regarding 83 year old, and still driving a race bike with a race helmet, that is to me somewhat irresponsible to himself. At that age, you will no longer have the necessary reflexes, even if you think you have.

That looks like a Honda CB500X, an adventure/touring bike with 50hp, definitely not a "race bike"

[NorthernRyland]

5 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the USA, if you read end a car you're always at fault even if the car put a sudden break in the middle of the road unless the front car has broken tail lights or the front driver driving drunk. 

What happens if some idiot decides to slam on his brakes and make a quick turn on to some side street. Surely this is not YOUR fault when you smash in to the back of their car?

[Sparktrader]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Thats a ridiculous comment... 

 

Some of the worst drivers and riders are the Works pickups, modified pick-up, delivery guys in refrigerated trucks and grab riders....   the vast majority of which are all men. 

 

Your confirmation bias is working over-time if you think females are worse than the men... 

 

The male to female road death stat is 3:1... more males killing themselves on the roads...  but that is probably disproportionate because far more males drive / ride (mostly dangerous riding without a helmet).

Men worse. Go faster.

[Doctor Tom]

49 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

You are referring to CHINESE women? Or just women in general?

women driving here in LOS,   One day, I will die of old age waiting for one to park her far too big car into a parking space in Big C or lotus. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Doctor Tom

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

In the USA, if you read end a car you're always at fault even if the car put a sudden break in the middle of the road unless the front car has broken tail lights or the front driver driving drunk. 

Not if they steal your stopping space / distance by driving into it - that's reckless driving everywhere.