Wife's brother-in-law set fire to our land

[Robin]

Your wife might have asked BIL to 'look after' the building site while you are away, so if you make her change thsi, she will lose face in the family, so no way is she going o change.  Just the ay it is in Thailand.

Also BIL will sas he did not intend the fire to get out of hand and burn the fence.  it was the fault of the wind/fire.  remember that no Thai is ever responsible for anything he does, nor can he think ahead and consider ay consequences of something not going to his plans.

For most Thai females, any Thai man knows far more than any Farang.  Being Thai trumps any qualification from outside Thailand.

Sorry, but if you  didn't know all this, you have trouble ahead.

Any money you spend in Thailand, particularly on buildings, will always stay in Thailand.

[VinnieK]

51 minutes ago, asf6 said:

nerjaron, have you asked your wife why your SIL and BIL spend so much time at the plot? 

Maybe the plot belongs to the BIL and the wife has lied to the o.p

Just a thought 

[Sandboxer]

BIL is really your WBF (I'll let you/others decipher the obvious 555).????

 

But really, you can either bleat along permanently like a good falang husband simp sheep, or ball up and set boundaries (literally and figuratively).  Politely of course. If that doesn't work.....the Philippines' official slogan is "It's better in the Philippines" and quite frankly most of my friends who married Filipinas don't have these specific TITssues.

 

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Robin said:

Also BIL will sas he did not intend the fire to get out of hand and burn the fence.  it was the fault of the wind/fire.  remember that no Thai is ever responsible for anything he does, nor can he think ahead and consider ay consequences of something not going to his plans.

For most Thai females, any Thai man knows far more than any Farang.  Being Thai trumps any qualification from outside Thailand.

Natural selection has selected white folk to plan ahead, if you couldn't you'd die in the winter.

In Thailand it's warm and food grows all year round, no planning selection has taken place.

Most of the foreigners in Thailand are superior to the local Thais.

Why they think they are better than us is purely Thai government propaganda.

[OneMoreFarang]

35 minutes ago, glegolo18 said:

For us actually living here in Thailand there is certainlya fourth option. Just confront the guy yourself when he is in action and just quite him down, silence him with gestures if you cant the lingo.... Make it clear what you think about it and his mingeling in your business...

And what do you expect will happen after that?

[BritManToo]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

And what do you expect will happen after that?

I would expect a stabbing or shooting!

[BangkokReady]

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

Imagine what he'll be like once it's built. Perhaps he already has his eyes on one of the bedrooms.

"I oversaw the whole building project from start to finish.  I even helped with some of the land clearance.  I deserve to be compensated for my time."

[Shop mak]

Farang confronting and get angry at a THAI person, (seldom) never have a good outcome. Don't go there.

 

The fire could likely been a accident due to wind.

 

The wifes attitude is reason for deep concern. Until OP know more, put a temporary hold on further building.

 

Built a house myself some 20 years ago. Learned the hard way, when not on site from sunrise to sunset, things goes wrong, guaranteed. Unless hiring a farang builder, that would increase the building cost 2,5x - 3x.

 

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, Shop mak said:

Built a house myself some 20 years ago. Learned the hard way, when not on site from sunrise to sunset, things goes wrong, guaranteed. Unless hiring a farang builder, that would increase the building cost 2,5x - 3x.

 

 

Exactly. And from the sounds of it, the OP is not able to be onsite.

 

Which is most likely why the BIL is going there regularly and why the wife does not want to discourage him from doing so.Not just because she does not want to upset the family but because she also wants him going there, with good reason.   It is absolutely necessary , and the Thai family knows this, though they may be unable or unwilling to explain this to the OP (telling him that Thai builders cannot be trusted may feel like a loss of face).

 

Now, how effective the BIL's supervision is, who knows, but I doubt it will stop until/unless the OP is able to do it himself, nor should it. Any supervision is better than none.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Watch out.  My wife would have excoriated her brother including demanding compensation.
You wife isn't being "Thai."  She is working against you - farang.  My wife's brothers and sisters don't come over or allowed on the property without an invite.  They don't supervise any the the construction projects we've done over the last decade.  They have their own land and houses. 
So you better ask yourself "Why am I the 'odd-man out'?"

I'd stop right now and reassess your marriage before you're over your head (possibly literally in the back woods somewhere).  My wife wouldn't stand for this, soooo - Occum's Razor - the family is working together and you are not obviously a part of the family, but just the source of funds.

Best of luck.  But?  Personally it sounds like you are being taken for a ride.

I have the same deal with my wife. She loves her family but lays down the rules as far as visits go.They have to let us know in advance when they're coming and we'll tell them whether it's convenient or not, and if they wish to stay the night, it's for one night only. My wife values her privacy as much as I do.

[FritsSikkink]

Stop talking to your wife about it and tell them yourself.

[Pouatchee]

I am not Thai. I do not follow much of the Thai culture, nor do I care. I do what is right and if I step on some feet, well too bad. Confront him and if he loses face he likely won't come back. Even Thai culture is redefining itself with the new generations. 

 

If eventually he burns down your house will he pay?

[BritManToo]

52 minutes ago, Shop mak said:

The fire could likely been a accident due to wind.

My former Thai lover (2009) did the same thing.

She said, "I'm just going to burn some rubbish in the next field"

I says, "It's a bit dry, careful you don't burn the place down"

She says, "I am Thai farmer, I know everything about farming, you know nothing"

So I went back to watching the footy.

A bit later she comes back, "Can you help me"

I look out the window and the whole field is ablaze, 6' high flames.

We put it out between us using two brooms and beating.

 

Last time she ever pulled the "I know everything" line on me.

Lovely woman, but never listened!

 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

1 hour ago, BangkokReady said:

"I oversaw the whole building project from start to finish.  I even helped with some of the land clearance.  I deserve to be compensated for my time."

Heh, this is how it is in Thai education. During activities and English camps they're all playing on their phones, while 1-2 teachers do the work. But when it's all over they'll join in the group selfie, and all even likely get impressive looking certificates for it too.

[Netease]

The guy wants to be involved find some work on the land that he can do and pay him, he could help you build a fence or plant trees something like that

[NONG CHOK]

I've been through this situation before, just completely stop any further construction work on that site. You may be losing money but move on because the expenses will get even larger. Explain to her indoors why you've done this, if she throws a tantrum tell her it's about time you both parted. You will soon see if she really loves your not or she's just playing the money game. Best of luck as you will need it.

[Elkski]

This thread should be a chapter in the next  * advice to falang in Thailand, pretty dancer II* book.   

The only other foreigner married to a Thai from my wife's village had similar issues with his FIL.  He put his foot down.  FIL was acting like construction foreman. And making changes to do things his way.   Things were still tense  between falang and fiL as he moved in but I imagine things will smooth out.  

You got to realize that a new home construction is a big deal in most Thai villages.  I even went to look. Especially for a family member who has falang paying.   The lucky Thai gal in village.   

But also your bro in laws house building experience is based on old village standards and he probably can't control heady sub contractors.   

My bro in law  50, does work on houses but his methods are so old school and wrong and he is the best in the area.   Spending 22 days around his various projects we grew a bond and I showed him a few tips and slowly , gently, he learned maybe all falang not dumb.    I did little things at first.  Foreseeing that they would need stakes and a hammer to shore up cement forms during a pour, before they saw the need.  And then they needed something and used all of the pile I brought and I saw lightbulbs going off in him and  the workers heads. Respect only comes by action.  Another project I  showed him how to back butter the first tile and was happy to see near completion that  he made this his new method.   It was obvious that it was a better method as there was no adhesion when I stopped him and, at risk of a fight if I wasn't his bro in law,  pulled up his first tile.

On a house footing job I  Showed him the 345 triangle square method and one of his workers was like yes as he knew about it.   I carefully showed him how accurate it can be.  This was on string lines laying out pillar footings for a house build.  For the footings his 20mm in 15 m error was ok but for the final pillar and steel placement hopefully he used this trick.  He did have a laser level.  But his tool box so sparse.  After you see the benefits of a laser  you can't go without. 

Just asked my wife and she says she could tell her bro in law to stay away.  But I'm doubtful.   I would be onsite for any construction and it is standard advice but also Ihave read so many times not to build in wife's village.  It would take some convincing but I would build some 10 km away , I ever move there,  minimum but also near a larger isaan small city or better in a cooler location with a sea breeze,  where a  man's movements would have some privacy.   

I say buy new fencing and let him build it free per your drawings.  I don't think you will stop his help completely.   The Pattaya idea is sound as you do have 1000 options as the saying goes and it is true. 

[NoDisplayName]

Build tall concrete wall.

Buy dogs.

[papa al]

She will kick you out after the house is done.

[H1w4yR1da]

Did he come and personally apologize for the fire?

 

I'm assuming the land is in the wife's name and she seems to be taking ther side.

It doesn't look good.

[Dan O]

There probably will be no way to keep the in laws completely out of this situation as they will just go behind your back while your not there as they are "just trying to help". 

 

I would take a different approach to this which has worked for me in similar situations.

 

First talk to the wife and explain that its best to only have changes come from you or her directly to the contractors after discussing it with each other first to make sure things are done properly and to avoid confusing the contractors or causing unnecessary expenses. Remind her you're trying to make her "dream" come thru with this but you and her need to work together to do that.

 

Second talk to the contractors building the house to not act on any instructions from the BIL or they will not be paid for changes coming from anyone other than you.

 

Then talk to the BIL and other family and thank them for watching out, keep in mind about him\them not losing face on this. That alone will go a long way now and in the future.  Ask him to only come to you or the wife first and not the contractors IF he sees something questionable going on so you can check and make sure it gets fixed correctly with the contractors. 

 

Short of that if the wife can't stand up for your relationship perimeters  with her family, (which sounds to be the case), then you've lost and won't even know it in most situations. Not sure what to do with that as its out of your control, just have to deal with it. 

[VinnieK]

12 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And what do you expect will happen after that?

You made an enemy for life ????

[VinnieK]

13 hours ago, asf6 said:

nerjaron, have you asked your wife why your SIL and BIL spend so much time at the plot? 

..because it probably belongs to them.????

 

[Menken]

This is why you don't move to wife's village. Been said 1000 times.

 

 

 

Good luck and while I agree with most posts I think Sheryl has made excellent counter points.

[Bday Prang]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Go alone to Pattaya for a week or twos holiday.

No funding for the misses and home while you're away.

 

Just the threat of that removed my MiL from our family home.

Money Vs parents/siblings = money wins every time.

Yep hit the nail on the head there,   Blood is thicker than water, but money is a damn sight thicker than blood. 

Pattaya trip is pretty much guaranteed to work   Other than that he could buy a big dog, Invent a ghost story , or he could divert his construction resources to building a wall and a gate  (he should have done that first and he will have to do it eventually) so that looks favorite to me,

He could try embracing the situation and including them in the project, by assigning them some small tasks to help out.. that will also get rid of them

[Bday Prang]

15 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

A brutal, savage, some would say, heartless approach to the problem. Others say, you now have your answer. Thailand is a 'tough love' kind of place. Might as well put the cards on the table, come what may. If it all goes bad, easier to walk away right now than later. As always our hopes and prayers are with you.    

BTW They're in their seventies. In good health, spry? Lot of times oldsters can have accidents, unfortunate but they do occur. Hopefully it doesn't but just saying. 

Nothing brutal or savage or heartless about Britmans suggestion,a totally pragmatic and doubtless very effective,3 pronged strategy, playing on

                 a) her natural instinct to protect her "investment" and prevent him from straying,She really will not                             want him going anywhere alone especially Pattaya

                 b) The accompanying loss of face if she lost him before the build is completed and he has payed for                          the new house party

                 c)  The immediate short term loss of cash whilst he's away

 

 you have to find their achilles heel, Its not difficult, its normally money, but women can be stubborn and often  are prepared to "cut their nose off to spite their face as they"   So occasionally a bit more leverage is needed and " loss of face" as shown above could  be turned to his advantage

                       The above however only provides a short term solution, and the long term prospects are not looking good

               If he's landed one like this , who can't or won't stand up to her family , he cannot appeal to her better nature, and unless he is prepared to forget his western sensitivities, and  take a bit of action, "man up " if you like, he is on course, firstly , to lose any respect he may have left  Secondly to exist in a living hell, and then finally he will inevitably lose everything. 

                The op needs to ask himself (and his wife)  if she would behave like this if he was Thai, Its pretty obvious what the correct answer is,

                 He also needs to ask himself if he would stand for this treatment from a woman of his own nationality, and would he also be so willing to build her a house 

 

                  He may be able to pull it round but it will be hard work and there will be tears (on both sides) but it is possible and i've seen it happen ,   although as he said, its been her long term dream to have this house, he needs to get them all "trained up" before its finished or all is lost

[petermik]

Perhaps I,m the lucky one I had this built 9 years ago down South near to the GF,s family on land left by her mother never once did I have any issues with her family....at the time I pointed out to her that this was for her when my toes curled up and was to be used as a break from our apartment in Pattaya.....we visit monthly only staying 10/14 days which is a nice break....in the early days my GF suggested perhaps we could stay a little longer to which I replied sure you can stay here and I,ll come down again next month to see you.....did not happen of course and never been mentioned since LOL

My advice to the OP is put your foot down tell her its either your way or the highway and in my case never spend more money here that you cannot afford to walk away from if needs be.

He who pays the piper decides the tunes he plays ????

[kimamey]

18 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Go and tell the guy yourself .

Stop using your Wife as a middle man and go and speak to the BiL yourself , take your wife along to interpret if necessary 

Not a bad idea although as someone else has said you won't know what's said.

 

I've noticed that what needs 2 or 3 sentences in English takes about 10 to 20 minutes in Thai. No wonder it's so difficult to learn.

 

It works the other way as well. 5 minutes talking to someone in the market is translated to "Her daughter has foreigner husband from Germany. They live in Bangkok and are coming home for Songkran."

 

You could try writing it down so you can translate it but you don't know if your wife will say something else later.

 

You're in a difficult position as I assume your in laws are older than you wife and maybe older than you.  There is a certain reverence for age but a lot of so called 'Thai Culture' and culture in general to be honest is used when it's convenient.

 

Best of luck

 

[brianthainess]

Tell your wife if her family interfere with anything on Her land, then You will stop paying for any further construction, of Her New House.

[DJ54]

OP don’t let it stress you out he probably thought he was helping … these days if power or water goes off I look to see where her Papa is… he likes fooling with things.. … that he knows little about…

 

Take your GF to talk to him say thanks … you appreciate the help and was going to give you a couple 

hundred baht,,, unfortunately you did more damage the good .. maybe he’ll remember next time..