Help, against good advice offered here, I married my long term GF in Isaan. Coming apart, advice please.

[steven100]

5 hours ago, notrub said:

Sister has said many time that she knows that this is my home and I trust her.  The village likes me and all the family likes me. 

This means absolutely nothing,  of course they like you.   The point is you said she wants you gone and she was looking for another bf.    It sounds a bit like she pushed this issue a week ago and then this week everything is all rosy and it's not mentioned,  but next week it may start again if you have an argument over any little issue.

She is being a snake if that's what's happening and it's a dangerous game as you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.   Is she serious? does she want you gone?  is she being snaky?    this is what you need to either confirm and decide.

[3NUMBAS]

cut and run , save what u can is my advice

[LukKrueng]

On 4/30/2023 at 6:52 PM, notrub said:

Thank you for your comments.  Everything was built and purchased before marriage.  The land was bought by me for about 600,000 and is in her name.  I have the usufruct as I had not planned to move b4 death.  She will get every thing when I die anyway so now is just a matter of getting rid of her for now.  It may be that she can make my life miserable without taking any legal action.  She took the keys for my motorbike (returned), truck keys and now i think she has my credit card wallet.  One lesson may be to never let them think you have more than 2 pennies and be clear that every payment brings pain.  How sad it would be to live like that...  I am 75 today.  Great birthday gift from her.  Thanks again for comments.

 

On 4/30/2023 at 7:13 PM, BE88 said:

There is one thing that is not clear in your story, you are married and therefore your wife will have to divorce at the end if she

meet another man so you will have to comply with what the judge will decide and you will have to sell the house and share half of the sale.

You can not find different solutions this is the only way you would take,

Many farangs have passed this road, you are not alone.

As the land and house were purchased\built before you got married - it's all hers. Doesn't matter who paid for all. You obviously have the right to live there till your death, but according to your stories about her is not going to be a pleasant life.

As someone suggested above, let her find a new lover in the hope he'll be willing to buy back your rights for a reasonable amount, even though it's not actually saleable (unlike a long term lease).

Option 2 is come to an agreement with her that she can do whatever she wants, as can you, but you will still share the house.

Option 3 (which I think it's the most viable) is just bite the bullet, take what's in your name (car and bike?) and move out.

Good luck.

[xtrnuno41]

Congratulations on your birthday.

Sadly not a nice present you had on this day.

Usufruct, you done well in it. Normally wise, it should be a legal thing in court.

If she wants to sell anyhow, the the usufruct will stay, until you ,,die

House in your name? As you have also prenup and a house YOU can poses.

You bought prior to marriage and all assets prior to mariage are yours.

 

Thai civil lawbook, chapter !V article 1470, within the mariage there is the situation "Sin Suan Tua" principle working. Meaning all money and goods prior to mariage stays with the owner. All money and goods coming in after mariage is equal owned, unless otherwise is signed up,"Sin Somros".

So there is your prenup!? Though you wouldnt have need it.

All should be legal and stand in court.

At least gather as much evidents about your "lovely"wife, being unfaithful.

It is sad but you must battle if you want to stay.

 

I had it from another Thai blog in which a guy was divorcing from his Thai wife and his wife claimed quite some money on an in heritage from his father.

He has to battle her on this and looks like  he has a good chance with it, as gifts and in heritage also is under "SIn Suan Tua".

So with a lawyer you can discus this. Bring it up.

 

However, the lawyer, there it is, find a good one. There is one mentioned in the comments. 

There are indeed lots of stories about Thai women and dead husbands.

How ugly can it gets? Everything is possible.

There has been a time, with my divorce, I was thinking about,,, well you know.

Happily those thoughts fade away.

It is almost a normal reaction in it and it is how strong are you to cope.

But that said, how strong is your as ex?

 

OK, you made a mistake by running along with this woman. Can tell you I made 

 quite some mistakes myself. You learn.

You should by now have learned to put away some important stuff!

Passport, wallets, visa and so on.

 

I can see why you want to stay, it is a lovely property. 

You still have your retirement visa or changed it? Prepare to go back to retirement visa if you did.

 

It is weird,a mariage is a lifetime contract, technically. I never heard of somebody fighting his wife to break that contract and sue for breaking that contract.

As you make heavy promises when getting married. 

 

[thailandsgreat]

19 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

Congratulations on your birthday.

Sadly not a nice present you had on this day.

Usufruct, you done well in it. Normally wise, it should be a legal thing in court.

If she wants to sell anyhow, the the usufruct will stay, until you ,,die

House in your name? As you have also prenup and a house YOU can poses.

You bought prior to marriage and all assets prior to mariage are yours.

 

Thai civil lawbook, chapter !V article 1470, within the mariage there is the situation "Sin Suan Tua" principle working. Meaning all money and goods prior to mariage stays with the owner. All money and goods coming in after mariage is equal owned, unless otherwise is signed up,"Sin Somros".

So there is your prenup!? Though you wouldnt have need it.

All should be legal and stand in court.

At least gather as much evidents about your "lovely"wife, being unfaithful.

It is sad but you must battle if you want to stay.

 

I had it from another Thai blog in which a guy was divorcing from his Thai wife and his wife claimed quite some money on an in heritage from his father.

He has to battle her on this and looks like  he has a good chance with it, as gifts and in heritage also is under "SIn Suan Tua".

So with a lawyer you can discus this. Bring it up.

 

However, the lawyer, there it is, find a good one. There is one mentioned in the comments. 

There are indeed lots of stories about Thai women and dead husbands.

How ugly can it gets? Everything is possible.

There has been a time, with my divorce, I was thinking about,,, well you know.

Happily those thoughts fade away.

It is almost a normal reaction in it and it is how strong are you to cope.

But that said, how strong is your as ex?

 

OK, you made a mistake by running along with this woman. Can tell you I made 

 quite some mistakes myself. You learn.

You should by now have learned to put away some important stuff!

Passport, wallets, visa and so on.

 

I can see why you want to stay, it is a lovely property. 

You still have your retirement visa or changed it? Prepare to go back to retirement visa if you did.

 

It is weird,a mariage is a lifetime contract, technically. I never heard of somebody fighting his wife to break that contract and sue for breaking that contract.

As you make heavy promises when getting married. 

 

But the land was put in her name? Will proving by bank statements that he paid for it help?

[MichaelHunt]

Maybe get her to lend some money to Madame Cyanide?

[ThailandRyan]

7 minutes ago, thailandsgreat said:

But the land was put in her name? Will proving by bank statements that he paid for it help?

No it will not unfortunately.  He can not own the land and is why he has a usufruct.

[thailandsgreat]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

No it will not unfortunately.  He can not own the land and is why he has a usufruct.

Like Philippines. Similar stories.

[xtrnuno41]

9 minutes ago, thailandsgreat said:

But the land was put in her name? Will proving by bank statements that he paid for it help?

yes it is in her name, but they put a usufruct at the landoffice on it, so meaning he can use the land for as long as he lives. So even it is in her name, he can do whatever he likes with the land, not sell. But he could rent it out again if he wants.

Usufruct is the only way to "own" the land for as long as he lives.

If he dies , the usufruct is gone and land is completely back to her. 

It is a lease and normally a lease is for 30 years in Thailand, which you could extend for another 30 years and afterwards another 30 years. But if the owner says no after lease is to expire, then it is over.

But this lease (usufruct) can be set for live, if it is made this way.

[thailandsgreat]

9 minutes ago, xtrnuno41 said:

yes it is in her name, but they put a usufruct at the landoffice on it, so meaning he can use the land for as long as he lives. So even it is in her name, he can do whatever he likes with the land, not sell. But he could rent it out again if he wants.

Usufruct is the only way to "own" the land for as long as he lives.

If he dies , the usufruct is gone and land is completely back to her. 

It is a lease and normally a lease is for 30 years in Thailand, which you could extend for another 30 years and afterwards another 30 years. But if the owner says no after lease is to expire, then it is over.

But this lease (usufruct) can be set for live, if it is made this way.

Usufructs are not commonly used in Philippines for this purpose to my knowledge.

 

Then he has a watertight deal. He "owns the land until he dies" and paid for the house before they got married. The question is then if any Thai lawyer will take the side of a farlang and work quickly and efficiently, and if this man is prepared to spend his time checking up on the lawyers work.

[Mansell]

When you say you are not wealthy…..I would hope you you have at least 80,000 baht a month coming in. That means you could live quite comfortably. Here in Pattaya you can get a nice furnished condo with pool and gym for around 6,000 baht a month. The other thing you haven’t mentioned is your visa status once you are divorced.

The lawyer advice is good especially the lady in Korat…..she sounds like she has her head screwed on straight, and would do her best for you, and not just herself.

You have a vehicle, that would allow you to throw stuff in a bag and get away from the wife. I would tell nobody where you are going, and have all communication through a phone etc. If you head to Korat, I just stayed in an okay hotel The Siri for around 540 baht a night, close to the Monkey Bar for a decent meal etc.

Don’t let all this get you down…..remember, all things must pass……eventually!

In a years time all this will hopefully be behind you, and the sun will be shining again and there will be a smile on your face. Good luck.

[ukrules]

Does she have any sisters who are currently unmarried?

[Capt Rob]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:40 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

Let her find a new lover, hopefully a rich one. And then sell him that land and the house and the wife.

Probably that is what she wants anyhow.

And make sure she doesn't inherit anything, and tell her after you changed your last will and testament. 

 

On 5/1/2023 at 12:26 AM, PR3 said:

First of all Best Wishes on your 75th Birthday!!! I'm sure it's not fun you have to be posting on here regarding this.

Sorry to hear about your situation, you seem to be in a difficult spot there.

You mentioned earlier that everything was built and paid for prior to marriage.

It would be the sensible thing to speak to a reputable lawyer in this case; as far as I'm aware anything paid for etc. prior to marriage is not considered part of the settlement estate upon divorce. ( hope this is not the case ).

You may have other options if you have usufruct on the property i.e. rent it out and live elsewhere (if you decide to divorce) off the proceeds.

For me I'd have turned my back as soon as she disappeared with the guy for 2 weeks.

That sort of behaviour says a lot about someone.

But totally understand if your financial situation doesn't allow such a move.

Either way try enjoy your Birthday and seek legal advice, no-one should have to live with the sword of damocles hanging over them.

I wish you the very best of luck try not to get too stressed over it.

Regards 

PR3

Good to see some well intentioned and balanced advice here - There used to be a French Candian lawyer ( Isaan Lawyers ? ) name like Christian who had a good reputation, not sure if he moved on. There are other foreigners practicing law in BKK but 'pot luck' there.

[Capt Rob]

On 5/1/2023 at 1:12 AM, driver52 said:

Happy Birthday!

Have you got a spare room and if so have you thought about getting a lodger in case she comes at you with a rolling pin or even worse?

Good luck! Women over a certain age just seem to go all hormonal ????

Possibly AirBnB ?  To Farangs of course

 

[steven100]

2 hours ago, thailandsgreat said:

 

Then he has a watertight deal. He "owns the land until he dies

wrong ....      the land is in her name. 

[thailandsgreat]

12 minutes ago, steven100 said:

wrong ....      the land is in her name. 

I did not say that. You seem to want to create discussion here. I just interpreted the earlier posts as the usufruct gave him control over the land during his lifetime except for selling. I am not an expert on the legal matters. Just please state how you see the situation and not just a one-liner with a missing quote against another post.

 

I leave the legal, I am no expert. I am just trying to sort out many contradictory posts in this thread and learn about Thai law.

[d4dang]

Find a plot of land to rent/lease and move your house there or tell your wife that is your plan. Encourage her to find a new guy. If someone takes her at 58 consider yourself lucky. Get a good lawyer far from the village. Take control of your future.

[MJCM]

On 5/1/2023 at 2:19 PM, Adumbration said:

Kick her out.  You have the right to do so as the Usufructee.  Go to a lawyer.  Get a letter addressed to her to vacate.  And then pay a local copper to accompany you to your house to have her removed.

 

 

I think you forgot that Thais can be very vindictive. If he throws her out that way, he might have a very unpleasant live afterwards if he stays in that House, and don't forget it's her village.

[Andycoops]

On 4/30/2023 at 6:12 PM, scubascuba3 said:

ok that was a mistake many farang make, see if he can sell it. If the house was built in a tourist area at least farang could sell

He's in Isaan, tourism here is limited to say the least and is usually domestic.

[JimTripper]

If things get “nasty”, then move.

Might as well continue living there until that actually happens.

[garzhe]

On 5/1/2023 at 4:22 PM, steven100 said:

It ain't gunna happen.   It's not that simple and easy.  You think she'll want to sell the house and give him half? He'll end up with nothing .... 

You don't know that, she's 58, he could outlast her. He has all the rights to use the house and she's given away her rights in the Usufruct.  We don't know her circumstances,  If she needs money then she might well go for some split of the proceeds, I didn't mention half. At 58 she won't be getting many hits on Thai Friendly over the next few years. He doesn't have many options, if he can negotiate and come away with something, that's better than spending his last years miserably, fighting what's probably going to be a losing battle. 

[Old Croc]

My thoughts, prefaced by saying I haven't read through all previous posts, so apologize if repeating others.

 

The OP did his due diligence, spent a long time with the woman before committing and spent money reserves to buy his forever home set up to his liking. He covered his back from eviction with a usufruct but found he had thrown in with a wife who wasn't prepared to retire to the quiet life with an aged husband and limited ongoing finances. Not every Isaan woman wants to retire early back in the village life.

Despite good relations with villagers, he will always be the outsider and never one of them. When push comes to shove, they will side with their own clan member.

At 75 with everything tied up in the home and little ongoing money, advice to walk away and start a new life elsewhere is for him probably not an easy option.

He didn't commit to a spring chicken half his age; he had no reason to suspect she would turn toxic after the house was built.  She may have been playing the long game to get a retirement house back home for when she was ready to retire and possibly didn't understand the implications of a usufruct. He made the mistake of trusting and investing too much of himself and his remaining assets, with a (Thai) woman. One thing life, and about 4 wives, has taught me: you should always maintain a back-up plan.

[MJCM]

@Old Croc

 

I tend to agree with everything you say but not entirely with this part

 

13 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

When push comes to shove, they will side with their own clan member.

They will tend to side with her, but they will most certainly, if she is not doing him justice, tell her that.

 

they will have known them living as a couple for an extended period of time and they will know how he is and how he has treated her. It’s not that just because the relationship seems to be over that they are forgetting how he is 

 

 

[MJCM]

1 hour ago, Andycoops said:

He's in Isaan, tourism here is limited to say the least and is usually domestic.

Don’t forget that many Thais work outside of their home province, and (maybe) they at one point in time would like to move back to their village. 
 

But that said, it will be very hard to make a profit on selling a house in a rural village. 

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:44 AM, notrub said:

About 5 years ago she got mad at me and secretly started looking for a guy online.  After some months she said she was going to see her son but in fact went away with 'Ricky' for a 2 week holiday by the beach.

Seems to be a bar girl behavior to me. 

[thailandsgreat]

At the age of 53 she went to the dating sites and risked throwing away a very good retirement plan för herself! I guess many of her village lady friends would "kill" for such an arrangement?  I suspected troll post, but I can't say for sure.

 

I guess there will be several local ladies willing to fill her place without fooling around, even though they will not inherit the land?

[Adumbration]

4 hours ago, MJCM said:

I think you forgot that Thais can be very vindictive. If he throws her out that way, he might have a very unpleasant live afterwards if he stays in that House, and don't forget it's her village.

What is the alternative.  Have her live inside the house?.  He needs to kick her out.  Regroup and then decide what is best.  As the Usufructee he can sell a long term lease on the property, get some of his capital back out, move, and rent somewhere else.

 

And why do all you guys think the whole village is against him.  Most villages in my experience are chocked full of hillbilly fueds and factions.  Might be the case that 90 percent of the village would be happy that the wife is on the street.

[BritManToo]

52 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

What is the alternative.  Have her live inside the house?.  He needs to kick her out.  Regroup and then decide what is best.  As the Usufructee he can sell a long term lease on the property, get some of his capital back out, move, and rent somewhere else.

 

And why do all you guys think the whole village is against him.  Most villages in my experience are chocked full of hillbilly fueds and factions.  Might be the case that 90 percent of the village would be happy that the wife is on the street.

Would point out properties in a rural village have little or no resale or rental value.

Which is one of the reasons you should never build/live there.

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, Andycoops said:

He's in Isaan, tourism here is limited to say the least and is usually domestic.

Exactly, if he'd built in Pattaya for example selling would be far easier than nikonnowhere

[paddypower]

On 4/30/2023 at 6:52 PM, notrub said:

Thank you for your comments.  Everything was built and purchased before marriage.  The land was bought by me for about 600,000 and is in her name.  I have the usufruct as I had not planned to move b4 death.  She will get every thing when I die anyway so now is just a matter of getting rid of her for now.  It may be that she can make my life miserable without taking any legal action.  She took the keys for my motorbike (returned), truck keys and now i think she has my credit card wallet.  One lesson may be to never let them think you have more than 2 pennies and be clear that every payment brings pain.  How sad it would be to live like that...  I am 75 today.  Great birthday gift from her.  Thanks again for comments.

report your credit card as stolen, asap.