Submarines or help for the Thai people: 26 billion baht cuts to navy budget on table tomorrow

[webfact]

Picture: Manager

 

Manager reported that a senate committee will be proposing a 26.1 billion baht cut in the navy budget when they meet tomorrow.

 

This concerns the purchase of their submarines that has been much criticized in Thailand coming at a time of great difficulty for the people because of the pandemic. 

 

Many see such spending on defence as totally unnecessary when priorities should be channeled elsewhere.

 

The media reported that the cuts could not be finalised on July 23rd when delays were caused by requests to view inter governmental contracts. 

 

Ruling party Palang Pracharath MP for Chonburi Sorawut Neuangjamnong will chair the committee at its deliberations tomorrow. 

 

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[seajae]

what else do people expect from these idiots, buying subs and chinese <deleted> vaccines instead of buying vaccines from the west <deleted>, the govt would rather put their countries citizens in harms way to please their chinese masters and probably their financial positions as well. The people should always be the first consideration, this really shows how far off track the govt has gone and how far they will go to enrich themselves, letting their people die means nothing to them

[worgeordie]

Does that question even need to be asked, toys for the boys,

or saving people's lives and livelihoods ,it's a no brainer.....but

regards worgeordie 

[robblok]

Just cancel the subs, they were not needed anyway. Surface ships would be far better to check fishing ships and go against smugglers. 

 

Now in an BP article the navy says that after covid military tensions might rise so they need the subs. I don't see the Asean doing any infighting. If there will be an enemy it will be China anyway. Im sure there are trackers in their subs the Thais don't know about. So they would be useless.

 

Anyway most resistance against China would be useless its not as if anyone besides the US can do anything against China anyway.

 

Monumental waste of money those subs. 

[John Drake]

Might need those subs to fight off all the other ASEAN countries who become angry when Thailand curtails their contracted supply of Astra Zeneca covid vaccines.

[billd766]

They would have done far better to have invested the money on anti submarine warfare vessels. They would have got more ships  and less need for specialist equipment and technicians

 

[khunpa]

With the way Thailand has handled the vaccinations rollout, I doubt they would have much chance in a war situation.

 

So might be a good idea to cancel the subs this time… Maybe get some other land based military-hardware instead, just in case of a civil war. (Which is more likely, as Thai people are getting more and more upset)

 

Or they could of course spend a bit on vaccines. But let’s see…

Edited July 28, 2021 by khunpa

[pokerface1]

39 minutes ago, webfact said:

Many see such spending on defence as totally unnecessary when priorities should be channeled elsewhere

This sentence shows just how detached they are from reality. They must be thinking enough has been spent on the general public. Perhaps the money will go to their getaway funds instead..

[RubbaJohnny]

Are reversing seamen backed by rear admirals oar is das boot on the rudder foot?

[sammieuk1]

Buy some more water cannons and razor wire instead you are going to need them ????

[ThailandRyan]

Why should we defer the defense spending and not by the submarines, said the Minister of Hubs.  We are Hi-So's and the strong.  When the Country is decimated we can repopulate Thailand with the bloodlines of the elite and become a nation unlike all others, the center of the universe.  Yes, sarcasm, but I am sure some in this government believe they themselves are the master race and everyone else is inferior.  Almost sounds like a country from a distant time that led to a world war.  Taking care of the country means providing food, sustenance, shelter, and taking care of your brothers and sisters.  Selfish greed permeates this government as well as entitlement.

[Pedrogaz]

How about using some logic saying that Thailand has not been attacked or invaded for ages...why not scrap the military for a few years, cut general's pensions, and use the money to help the people.

[PETERTHEEATER]

45 minutes ago, RubbaJohnny said:

Are reversing seamen backed by rear admirals oar is das boot on the rudder foot?

Too subtle for most........????

[Felt 35]

51 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

like a country from a distant time that led to a world war

That country and their leader also suffered from Icplex so yes maybe????

[herfiehandbag]

37 minutes ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

Too subtle for most........????

Certainly had to think about it...

[NightSky]

The sub purchase was SUNK from the start, it’s good to SEA them take a U turn on this idea. 

[spidermike007]

My question is this. If the extremely toxic and dangerously timid army are unwilling to take any real risks, with regard to Covid and tourism, why are they spending 22 billion baht on submarines? Obviously there is some risk in operating subs, and even more risk if as they say, they are purposed to protect against terrorist threats and any threat in the South China Sea. The real budget is more like 13 billion baht for the first S26T Yuan Class sub, due in 2013, and now projected to arrive when? And the real cost for the subsequent two? And what is the projected annual budget to maintain these low quality Chinese subs?

Thai naval forces have not operated submarines for over 60 years now, while neighboring countries, particularly those with a major dispute at sea with Thailand, such as Vietnam, are equipped with modern submarines. Likewise Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore have submarines. But, they know how to operate and maintain them! 

Looks like they are willing to take a huge risk with the treasury. Why so timid with Covid vaccine procurement, and tourism?

This government is a whirlpool of conflicting loyalties and interests. It's leader has to manage those interests, and effectively buy the loyalties of the various parts of the armed forces. The submarines are the apparent price tag he has to pay for the navy supporting him. They will end up unusable and unaffordable, as did the aircraft carrier.

There is no strategic justification for the submarines. There is really no military threat to Thailand, none of the countries with which it shares a land border have the capacity for anything other than the occasional cross border firefight. If you look carefully at all the military procurement of recent years, they are all to support ambitions, and thus buy the support of the various rival groups within the armed forces. They simply do not add up to any sort of a coherent modernisation or re-equipment of what remains a largely obsolete, immobile and under trained force, able only to undertake the most mundane of garrison duties, whilst it's bloated leadership occupies itself with playing politics or their own largely unregulated business ventures.

The government however (or more realistically those to whom it reports) must rely upon the military to keep it in power. It was put into power for one core function; to prevent the nascent political, social and economic liberalisation of Thai society which arose with the arrival of new technologies and communications, which have allowed a (younger) population which has long been kept ill educated and dependent for any advancement on its elders and sponsors, to communicate, educate themselves and develop business independent of those elders and sponsors. The Covid crisis is in a dimension beyond that, and it's timid, chaotic "rabbit in the headlights" response to the challenges it brings are simply because it does not know how to react, other than to use some of the opportunities to exercise power, in pursuit of that core function, which the social and political restrictions they argue the disease has necessitated give them.

The tourist industry was largely beyond the scope of those to whom it owes its loyalty (existence). they neither understand nor are interested in it. The same holds for the fate of those whose livelihoods and businesses have been damaged or destroyed by the reaction to Covid. They can, as we cynically joke, always" go back to their farms".

Whether the younger generation(s) will meekly accept their lot, now they have tasted the opportunity to communicate, educate themselves and develop business, we shall see. I certainly hope not. As do most of us. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by spidermike007

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Does that question even need to be asked, toys for the boys,

or saving people's lives and livelihoods ,it's a no brainer.....but

regards worgeordie 

But this is Thailand...

[unblocktheplanet]

It's OUR money! NOBODY wants submarines! Get a life already...

[bdenner]

Does this mean their flag ship aircraft carrier is going to be tied up for another 20 years for lack of fuel and/or maintenance?

[Rampant Rabbit]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Many see such spending on defence as totally unnecessary

Yes yes yes so go  ahead order the subs, you  know it  makes sense in Thailand

[ikke1959]

I ll go for the submarines.. As always Thai people are only good to enrich the rich more.. But no one take care of them..Shame shame shame that there need to be a discussion about this 

[Purdey]

No one knows the terms of the deal. Does the acquisition give the Chinese access to Thai waters, Thai harbours or other territoriality? Perhaps one should not speculate but hopefully the committee can study the agreement to say if it is the country's best interests.

[Cake Monster]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Just cancel the subs, they were not needed anyway. Surface ships would be far better to check fishing ships and go against smugglers. 

 

Now in an BP article the navy says that after covid military tensions might rise so they need the subs. I don't see the Asean doing any infighting. If there will be an enemy it will be China anyway. Im sure there are trackers in their subs the Thais don't know about. So they would be useless.

 

Anyway most resistance against China would be useless its not as if anyone besides the US can do anything against China anyway.

 

Monumental waste of money those subs. 

If the Chinese did ever decide to invade Thailand, the Thais would just have to put their Head between the Knees and kiss their A@@ goodbye.

I am not so sure that the Order for the Subs could be Cancelled easily.

There would be Installment plans, and timelines for Payments along with penalty clauses for late / non payments Etc.

To even get out of this deal will probably cost  the Country a shed load of Money.

Maybe hey will  be searching for some kind of payment Holiday, but even that will cost a lot.

I reckon the Thai Navy will need to keep a considerable chunk of their Budget  for these payments, so a split will be eked out tomorrow between the Navy and the peoples Heath.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

Surely backed themselves into a corner now didn't they.  Wanting to play with the big boys when they are little fish in the sea and had always relied on allies seems to have backfired.

[Sydebolle]

The aircraft carrier without airplane springs to mind; are we talking about a submarine without marine now? Answers will not come in as all this is secret, confidential and only for the selected few - so much to transparent democratic government in the 21st century! What a farçe! 

[clivebaxter]

Subs would be a bad idea, the sound of som tam being knocked up would be a dead give away to the enemy ????

[Cake Monster]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Surely backed themselves into a corner now didn't they.  Wanting to play with the big boys when they are little fish in the sea and had always relied on allies seems to have backfired.

This Gov,t always want to Box above their weight, wants to be seen at the Top Table with the World Leaders.

They are what they are.

A small 3rd World Nation that has little or no influence upon the affairs of the World

 

[Gold Star]

He only needs one sub to flee Thailand from the growing mob.

Perhaps 2 are decoys.

[Destiny1990]

Lets just compromise and purchase  half a sub. ????